Which denomination of the church defines the phrase "in a brotherly way" . God's Love rejoices with His truth as it is written. Scripture in Job 9 informs us God is not a man as us neither is their a daysman or what you must call a Pope, as a fleshly umpire that stands between God and man . Will you make that portion of scripture without effect, brother ?
BIBLE VERSES EXPLAINING SOME TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
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Canon law is not infallible. Very few declarations are infallible. Not every single word in every Catholic document is infallible.
"Jesus is God" is infallible. Jesus is God and the cow jumped over the moon. "The cow jumped over the moon" part is not infallible. If the sentence appeared in an infallible document, only the "Jesus is God" part in infallible. 17:55 - is an audio tape that explains some things about infallibility. Please listen to it.
The Pope has the authority to change disciplines and practices, he has no authority to change doctrines or the Bible.
If a person never heard the gospel, never heard about Jesus, never saw a Bible and never met a Christian through no fault of their own- and they die, in your system they go to hell. This is not a just God, it is a monster God. Salvation is POSSIBLE, because of God's justice and mercy, He judges them differently. For you, their salvation is IMPOSSIBLE and that is NOT what Jesus taught. Jesus separates the sheep from the goats in heaven, they are not separated according to your rigid, narrow view of salvation. This is what you don't understand. What's worse is refusing to understand and you refuse to understand everything I say.
Reformation Christian Ministries is full of hate and lies and they have deceived you. Reformation Christian Ministries, an international, educational missions ministry, is under the oversight of The King’s Reformed Presbyterian Church and Sharon Orthodox Presbyterian Church. It's an internet church, not a real church.
Your pope is John Calvin and you may not even know it. You can deny being a Calvinist, but you sure like the RCM lies, myths and falsehoods.
from a non-Catholic site: my words in red.
(Nostae Atate) It says, first, to be sure, that the Church seeks to promote fellowship among all men (#1). You promote division, fear, and suspicion. Secondly, it speaks about how all historic religions that have grown up in the context of well-developed cultures have attempted to provide answers to the most central questions that confront man, such as who he is, what the meaning of his life is, and what kind of moral life he is to lead. Thirdly, it makes clear that there are elements of truth in all of these religious traditions, and so the Church “rejects nothing that is true and holy in” them (#2). To you, this is unthinkable Finally, it “exhorts” Catholics to engage in “dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions” so they can recognize “the good things” found among them (#2).You want them to kill us instead???
As far as Moslems are concerned, Nostra Aetate regards them “with esteem,” because as a fellow Abrahamic faith they submit to the one true God, revere Jesus as a prophet even if they don’t recognize him as God, have devotion to the Blessed Mother, and like Christianity “value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting,” and also await the resurrection of the body on Judgment Day (#3). To you, everything they believe is evil. This is not Christianity.
The document also makes clear the following. While the “precepts and teachings” of these other religions differ in many respects from the Church’s, they “often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men” (#2)—that is, they obscurely express Christ in some way. It also stresses that the dialogue and cooperation with them must be “carried out with prudence and love” (#2). In other words, while acting in charity Catholics must always bring discernment to their dealings with adherents of non-Christian religions. The Church—and by extension, the faithful—“ever must proclaim Christ ‘the way, the truth, and the life’” (#2) and “the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows” (#4). You must ever proclaim fear and condemnation. What this means is that they can never back away from holding—always charitably, to be sure—that she alone teaches the fullness of the truth. You deny this truth in the first place.
The document also affirms that Catholics cannot refuse to treat any person “in a brotherly way,” since all are created in the image of God, and that there is no basis “for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned” (#5). I have explained "human dignity" to you before and you just ignored it.
A key point here are that Catholics cannot let themselves slip into a kind of religious syncretism when viewing other religions or in their dealings with their adherents. Charity is exhorted, but so is prudence. When the document says that dialogue and cooperation must be carried out with these things in mind, it is essentially cautioning Catholics not to slip into a mindset of moral or religious equivalency. When it says that these other religions have elements of the truth—which unwittingly, for them, reflect the truth of Christ—it is making clear that, as stated, the Church alone embraces and teaches the fullness of truth and the complete path to human salvation. She, in effect, is reminding the faithful that they cannot forget this or cease to make it a central element motivating their dialogue. You cannot see this because of your blind prejudice.Indeed, it has been just such a neglect that has abundantly characterized ecumenical relations since Vatican II and has helped retard the Church’s efforts at evangelization. Where Catholics have not succumbed to a functional religious syncretism, many have failed to understand that a charitable attitude can make it possible to stand solidly for principles and even speak the truth and still get along with people. You have failed to understand because your religion won't allow you to understand. You promote fear of the Pope that scares little children.
Thanks for your respon.
You say pope not say that, (pope do not say moslim in the plan of salvation) but It is oN the lumen gentium.
And If pope not agree, why don't he delete? Don't he has authority to change lumen gentium?
You say moslim whorship Abraham God, Abraham God tell us that Jesus is God, moslem God tell mohamed that Jesus is only prophet. Is the same God tell Lie to mohammad? Is Abraham God Lie to mohammad?
My brother, the one who talk to mohammad is not Abraham God. It is Lucifer or devil pretend to be God.
Back to the bible brother, do not believe man Made doctrine.
"Jesus is God" is infallible. Jesus is God and the cow jumped over the moon. "The cow jumped over the moon" part is not infallible. If the sentence appeared in an infallible document, only the "Jesus is God" part in infallible. 17:55 - is an audio tape that explains some things about infallibility. Please listen to it.
The Pope has the authority to change disciplines and practices, he has no authority to change doctrines or the Bible.
If a person never heard the gospel, never heard about Jesus, never saw a Bible and never met a Christian through no fault of their own- and they die, in your system they go to hell. This is not a just God, it is a monster God. Salvation is POSSIBLE, because of God's justice and mercy, He judges them differently. For you, their salvation is IMPOSSIBLE and that is NOT what Jesus taught. Jesus separates the sheep from the goats in heaven, they are not separated according to your rigid, narrow view of salvation. This is what you don't understand. What's worse is refusing to understand and you refuse to understand everything I say.
Reformation Christian Ministries is full of hate and lies and they have deceived you. Reformation Christian Ministries, an international, educational missions ministry, is under the oversight of The King’s Reformed Presbyterian Church and Sharon Orthodox Presbyterian Church. It's an internet church, not a real church.
Your pope is John Calvin and you may not even know it. You can deny being a Calvinist, but you sure like the RCM lies, myths and falsehoods.
from a non-Catholic site: my words in red.
(Nostae Atate) It says, first, to be sure, that the Church seeks to promote fellowship among all men (#1). You promote division, fear, and suspicion. Secondly, it speaks about how all historic religions that have grown up in the context of well-developed cultures have attempted to provide answers to the most central questions that confront man, such as who he is, what the meaning of his life is, and what kind of moral life he is to lead. Thirdly, it makes clear that there are elements of truth in all of these religious traditions, and so the Church “rejects nothing that is true and holy in” them (#2). To you, this is unthinkable Finally, it “exhorts” Catholics to engage in “dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions” so they can recognize “the good things” found among them (#2).You want them to kill us instead???
As far as Moslems are concerned, Nostra Aetate regards them “with esteem,” because as a fellow Abrahamic faith they submit to the one true God, revere Jesus as a prophet even if they don’t recognize him as God, have devotion to the Blessed Mother, and like Christianity “value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting,” and also await the resurrection of the body on Judgment Day (#3). To you, everything they believe is evil. This is not Christianity.
The document also makes clear the following. While the “precepts and teachings” of these other religions differ in many respects from the Church’s, they “often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men” (#2)—that is, they obscurely express Christ in some way. It also stresses that the dialogue and cooperation with them must be “carried out with prudence and love” (#2). In other words, while acting in charity Catholics must always bring discernment to their dealings with adherents of non-Christian religions. The Church—and by extension, the faithful—“ever must proclaim Christ ‘the way, the truth, and the life’” (#2) and “the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows” (#4). You must ever proclaim fear and condemnation. What this means is that they can never back away from holding—always charitably, to be sure—that she alone teaches the fullness of the truth. You deny this truth in the first place.
The document also affirms that Catholics cannot refuse to treat any person “in a brotherly way,” since all are created in the image of God, and that there is no basis “for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned” (#5). I have explained "human dignity" to you before and you just ignored it.
A key point here are that Catholics cannot let themselves slip into a kind of religious syncretism when viewing other religions or in their dealings with their adherents. Charity is exhorted, but so is prudence. When the document says that dialogue and cooperation must be carried out with these things in mind, it is essentially cautioning Catholics not to slip into a mindset of moral or religious equivalency. When it says that these other religions have elements of the truth—which unwittingly, for them, reflect the truth of Christ—it is making clear that, as stated, the Church alone embraces and teaches the fullness of truth and the complete path to human salvation. She, in effect, is reminding the faithful that they cannot forget this or cease to make it a central element motivating their dialogue. You cannot see this because of your blind prejudice.Indeed, it has been just such a neglect that has abundantly characterized ecumenical relations since Vatican II and has helped retard the Church’s efforts at evangelization. Where Catholics have not succumbed to a functional religious syncretism, many have failed to understand that a charitable attitude can make it possible to stand solidly for principles and even speak the truth and still get along with people. You have failed to understand because your religion won't allow you to understand. You promote fear of the Pope that scares little children.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for your respon.
You say pope not say that, (pope do not say moslim in the plan of salvation) but It is oN the lumen gentium.
And If pope not agree, why don't he delete? Don't he has authority to change lumen gentium?
You say moslim whorship Abraham God, Abraham God tell us that Jesus is God, moslem God tell mohamed that Jesus is only prophet. Is the same God tell Lie to mohammad? Is Abraham God Lie to mohammad?
My brother, the one who talk to mohammad is not Abraham God. It is Lucifer or devil pretend to be God.
Back to the bible brother, do not believe man Made doctrine.
About pope infallible.
I quote from catholic source
Vatican II’s Explanation
Vatican II explained the doctrine of infallibility as follows: "Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they can nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly. This is so, even when they are dispersed around the world, provided that while maintaining the bond of unity among themselves and with Peter’s successor, and while teaching authentically on a matter of faith or morals, they concur in a single viewpoint as the one which must be held conclusively. This authority is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith" (Lumen Gentium 25).
Let me repeat this sentence:
This authority even more clearly( the authority proclaim or teach doctrine) when, gathered together in ecumenical council, they are teacher and judge of faith and moral for the universal church
To me this sentence mean: they are infallible when they are together. When they are make Canon law. They are together aren't they?
So this sentence informed us that Canon law must be infallible or that sentence Lie.
Logically speaking, If It is infallible, why ammanded?
It is Lie doctrine to me.
I quote from catholic source
Vatican II’s Explanation
Vatican II explained the doctrine of infallibility as follows: "Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they can nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly. This is so, even when they are dispersed around the world, provided that while maintaining the bond of unity among themselves and with Peter’s successor, and while teaching authentically on a matter of faith or morals, they concur in a single viewpoint as the one which must be held conclusively. This authority is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith" (Lumen Gentium 25).
Let me repeat this sentence:
This authority even more clearly( the authority proclaim or teach doctrine) when, gathered together in ecumenical council, they are teacher and judge of faith and moral for the universal church
To me this sentence mean: they are infallible when they are together. When they are make Canon law. They are together aren't they?
So this sentence informed us that Canon law must be infallible or that sentence Lie.
Logically speaking, If It is infallible, why ammanded?
It is Lie doctrine to me.
I believe lumen gentium that say moslim is in the plan of salvation, moslim worship Abraham God etc is design to embrace islam AS AS way to create one world religion AS a part of the strategy to SUPPORT one world government.
Let me repeat whay this is lie
Moslim God tell mohammad that Jesus is only a prophet but mohammad is the greatest prophet. So islam God told mohammad that mohammad greater than Jesus
Abraham God tell us that Jesus is God and whoever say that Jesus not God is evil.
So lumen gentium is Lie.
1 Corinthians 12:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
No man can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Mohammad not say Jesus is God, so mohhamad revelation in the cave of Hira is not come from Abraham God and It mean mohammad not worship Abraham God.
Let me repeat whay this is lie
Moslim God tell mohammad that Jesus is only a prophet but mohammad is the greatest prophet. So islam God told mohammad that mohammad greater than Jesus
Abraham God tell us that Jesus is God and whoever say that Jesus not God is evil.
So lumen gentium is Lie.
1 Corinthians 12:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
No man can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Mohammad not say Jesus is God, so mohhamad revelation in the cave of Hira is not come from Abraham God and It mean mohammad not worship Abraham God.
He doesn't read too many of them. The ones he does read he approaches with complete bias. The Protestant anti-Catholic camp has him severely indoctrinated.
J123 has an axe to grind and he doesn't care where he gets his information. He just wants to slander Catholic's.
The Pope is powerless to initiate a one world religion, and every link J123 post blows everything about the Pope way out of proportion. That kind of attitude is a complete turn off to most believers and unbelievers and destroys the mission of the universal Church.
Whether Protestants like it or not, much of the world..."believers and unbelievers" look at the Pope as the representative of Christ on earth. To bad mouth him is just what the devil wants them to do.
J123 has an axe to grind and he doesn't care where he gets his information. He just wants to slander Catholic's.
The Pope is powerless to initiate a one world religion, and every link J123 post blows everything about the Pope way out of proportion. That kind of attitude is a complete turn off to most believers and unbelievers and destroys the mission of the universal Church.
Whether Protestants like it or not, much of the world..."believers and unbelievers" look at the Pope as the representative of Christ on earth. To bad mouth him is just what the devil wants them to do.
I'm glad you asked. It's the same Church that put together all 73 books of the of the Bible at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD. She grows and expands through the centuries, always maintaining the original essence of truths. That's why a 21st century Church does not look like a 1st century Church, but the essence of truths never change. The evidence is there for any honest investigator who wishes to see it.
I speak of the historic Church that has outlasted any other political or religious institution in history.
A historic Church that promotes life from conception to natural death.
A historic Church that respects all other religions and cultures.
A historic Church that has among its adherents, intellectuals, philosophers, scientists, artists, academics as well as simpletons and the least educated in the most primitive of societies.
A historic Church that doesn't require complete knowledge and full understanding of complex doctrines.
A historic Church that has done more for the poor and needy than any other religious organization in the history of the world.
A historic Church that has not wavered in its doctrine or morals from the moment it began.
A historic Church whose message and connection with the Creator has changed the lives of billions throughout the ages.
A historic Church that has inspired its proponents to create some of the most beautiful works of art, music and literature ever produced.
A historic Church whose founder came to earth to suffer and die on a cross for all sinners and inspire untold thousands of its adherents to be martyred for their love of this founder and one another.
A historic Church that worships God and God only. But venerates his mother, The Blessed Virgin Mary. That's the Church I speak of.
I speak of the historic Church that has outlasted any other political or religious institution in history.
A historic Church that promotes life from conception to natural death.
A historic Church that respects all other religions and cultures.
A historic Church that has among its adherents, intellectuals, philosophers, scientists, artists, academics as well as simpletons and the least educated in the most primitive of societies.
A historic Church that doesn't require complete knowledge and full understanding of complex doctrines.
A historic Church that has done more for the poor and needy than any other religious organization in the history of the world.
A historic Church that has not wavered in its doctrine or morals from the moment it began.
A historic Church whose message and connection with the Creator has changed the lives of billions throughout the ages.
A historic Church that has inspired its proponents to create some of the most beautiful works of art, music and literature ever produced.
A historic Church whose founder came to earth to suffer and die on a cross for all sinners and inspire untold thousands of its adherents to be martyred for their love of this founder and one another.
A historic Church that worships God and God only. But venerates his mother, The Blessed Virgin Mary. That's the Church I speak of.
H
Hi, I often got in trouble for defending my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters in the chat, so I know how rough the seas can get. I want to commend your rational and even kind response to some of the replies that have been nothing more than insults.
This alone speaks for your upbringing. The tree is judged by it's fruit.
But to try and weigh in on the discussion you're starting:
I regard myself as Catholic but not Roman Catholic i.e. I have no direct connection or allegiance to Rome per se or the Roman papacy for that matter. I don't know any Christians in the Vatican personally but if I did I would surely regard them as my brothers.
This alone speaks for your upbringing. The tree is judged by it's fruit.
But to try and weigh in on the discussion you're starting:
I regard myself as Catholic but not Roman Catholic i.e. I have no direct connection or allegiance to Rome per se or the Roman papacy for that matter. I don't know any Christians in the Vatican personally but if I did I would surely regard them as my brothers.
U
I am not one to dispute the charitable works of the Catholic Church, of course they do charitable works because it is part of salvation in their dogma, they are trying to earn their way to heaven.
However, the "ekklesia" "church" in scripture is not what you describe above, it is the called out assembly and it does not refer to Roman Catholicism, it is the spiritual bride of Christ and is not a denomination.
Its history and longevity is not related to Truth but rather its power, might and the ongoing deceptive lie that they are the one true church which unfortunately people who prefer to be coddled and falsely assured rather than seek out the Truth for themselves have fallen for.
However, the "ekklesia" "church" in scripture is not what you describe above, it is the called out assembly and it does not refer to Roman Catholicism, it is the spiritual bride of Christ and is not a denomination.
Its history and longevity is not related to Truth but rather its power, might and the ongoing deceptive lie that they are the one true church which unfortunately people who prefer to be coddled and falsely assured rather than seek out the Truth for themselves have fallen for.
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Pathetic. Rome oppresses and steals from the poor to build edifices covered in gold while those under subjection starve.
The church that Jesus founded is made of born again blood washed Christians not buildings or edifices. The church Jesus founded is an organism not an organization.
No matter how it adorns itself the church Roman catholic is a hideous creation of corrupt men and not God. Look the list over carefully. No glory to God but many items of self accomplishment. Souls in the Roman catholic church perish in religious superstition when they need just simple bible truth.
I've been to Roman catholic funerals and I have seen the false pretense of hope given that in no way apply to dead people. It's all about the Roman Catholic church and the souls all are there to serve the church not the church serving the people.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The church that Jesus founded is made of born again blood washed Christians not buildings or edifices. The church Jesus founded is an organism not an organization.
No matter how it adorns itself the church Roman catholic is a hideous creation of corrupt men and not God. Look the list over carefully. No glory to God but many items of self accomplishment. Souls in the Roman catholic church perish in religious superstition when they need just simple bible truth.
I've been to Roman catholic funerals and I have seen the false pretense of hope given that in no way apply to dead people. It's all about the Roman Catholic church and the souls all are there to serve the church not the church serving the people.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Who in their right mind accepts lies??? Your mother is a whore. Silly, I know, but I am making a point. It is a lie you could never accept. But the "whore of Babylon" psychos throw that in my face all the time!!! This "whore" obsession makes me wonder about their mental health.
Non-denominationalism is a denomination. The only way out of the logical dilemma is to start your own church, which you already have. You can be the pope! Sorry, I'm rambling............
Non-denominationalism is a denomination. The only way out of the logical dilemma is to start your own church, which you already have. You can be the pope! Sorry, I'm rambling............
Hey I'm right here in the middle of the most recent Catholic scandal and the really big part of the problem is that after the fact was known of the perverted acts of many priests the hierarchy covered it up and lied about it.
Talk about psychos and liars. Rome creates them and fosters their growth. Unsaved men in positions of religious power always creates corrupt practices and eventually perversions that horrify decent people.
Jesus well described them as dead men's grave painted white on the outside and filled with all manner of uncleanness inside.
Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Talk about psychos and liars. Rome creates them and fosters their growth. Unsaved men in positions of religious power always creates corrupt practices and eventually perversions that horrify decent people.
Jesus well described them as dead men's grave painted white on the outside and filled with all manner of uncleanness inside.
Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You just do not like the truth.
Dance with the devil at you peril.
In my close association with the catholic church for the last 45 years I have found no redeeming qualities. Plenty of empty platitudes and bold faced lies but not qualities that would cause any one to desire their religion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Dance with the devil at you peril.
In my close association with the catholic church for the last 45 years I have found no redeeming qualities. Plenty of empty platitudes and bold faced lies but not qualities that would cause any one to desire their religion.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Truth is if evangelical's would stop badmouthing every other church except their own maybe the Church as a whole would grow. Because of Protestants the church is a divided mess. Every branch of Protestantism believes they posses the truth and they can't agree on anything and then condemn others who disagree with them.
You know what? That's the way the devils want it!
You know what? That's the way the devils want it!