Sabbath

[Shamah]

I don't believe God created a day for us to be slaves. Jesus came to free the slaves. God did that also in the Old Testament.

I beleive the Messiah came to set people free from sin and falsehood:

John 8:31-32, “So יהושע said to those Yehuḏim who believed Him, “If you stay in My Word, you are truly My disciples, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

John 8:34-36, “יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Actually, I think the words in Exodus 20 relate specifically to the Covenant that God made with Israel.

 

[Shamah]

​

For by what anyone has been subdued, by that also he is enslaved. ​

(2 Peter 2:19) ​

when Jesus says man is not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath is made for man, the context He says it in is giving an example of the Law being set aside and yet those setting aside ((i.e. breaking)) the Law not being considered guilty. ((Mark 2:23-28, Matthew 12:1-8))

if He is saying this in the context of something greater than the commandment taking precedence over the commandment, so that the commandment may be broken without guilt, how can you think it means anything other than that the sabbath commandment may be set aside for the sake of a greater righteousness?
if the opposite is true - that the sabbath cannot be set aside - then man is made for the sabbath, not the other way around.

the context is the disciples accused of breaking the sabbath. Christ does not argue they haven't; He responds by pointing out where the Law is broken without guilt: David receiving and eating holy bread, and the priests every week profaning the sabbath in the temple, even by doing what the priests are commanded to do under the Law. it is immensely significant that He responds this way!! and hugely important to comprehend what He means by saying He is 'Lord of the Sabbath' -- ignoring this context is ((IMO)) at the peril of getting the meaning of that title completely backwards.

if you are unable to do something good because you fear breaking the observance of a day, you are a slave to the day, not a slave to goodness, and you have become as though made for the day.
if the ceremonial commandments may be set aside for the sake of goodness, they are not a law unto us, but righteousness is, and righteousness therefore does not unilaterally require the observance of a day.

Ohh thats what He is says? the "made for man" means abolished?

Yeah...ok...

You are taking the pharisee intrepratation and pasting it over the Sabbath...

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Mark 3:4, “And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do right on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.”

John 7:22-24, “Because of this Mosheh has given you the circumcision – though it is not from Mosheh, but from the fathers – and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the Torah of Mosheh should not be broken, are you wroth with Me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath? Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

Why were they not sinning by breaking the Sabbath by “doing work” on the Sabbath? Because they are doing the will of YHWH, the true intent of the Sabbath day:

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”

By His word it's about doing His will first and foremost... You take the pharisee view and conflate it with YHWH view as evidence to testify against His 4th COmmand... We should learn to seperate their false doctrines from what YHWH says, after all how can we ever see things clearly if we don;t know, understand and consider what YHWH and Yahshua say about any topic aside from what anyone else says?

 

[Shamah]

Actually, I think the words in Exodus 20 relate specifically to the Covenant that God made with Israel.

Question... What is commonly called the "New Covenant" was given to Israyl, yet you believe (as I do) Gentiles have a part in that right?

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new/chadash/renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."

Actually, I think the words in Exodus 20 relate specifically to the Covenant that God made with Israel.

Also the Sabbath was for Gentiles also, but naysayer ignore this passage:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

[Lillywolf]

Amen to guarding and keeping God's Commandments!

Now there's not a person on this forum who guards and keeps all of God's Commandments, because there's many that simply can't be done today because there is no Temple or tent of meeting.

We also see from the apostles sent by Jesus who wrote after his resurrection that loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills all the Commandments and the bearing of one another's burdens fulfills the law of Christ.

So clearly, to me, those are the Commandments that we are to Garden keep.

Not many at all.
Mark 12:30-31
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”




“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live."
Berean Study Bible · Download

 

[Lillywolf]

I beleive the Messiah came to set people free from sin and falsehood:

John 8:31-32, “So יהושע said to those Yehuḏim who believed Him, “If you stay in My Word, you are truly My disciples, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

John 8:34-36, “יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

Great post. Especially the reminder in John 8 that shuts down the idea that Christians are still sinners. And Salvation is not eternal.

 

[Dan_473]

True, but you also shouldn't take this truth and use it as an excuse do deny or teach others to deny or reject what He has told "all" people either.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So are you preaching this part of the Christ's teaching is only for this one person and not for you?


Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

You ignored the part of my post which suggested if we are going to preach to others, we should know which "sayings" of the Christ is directed for all mankind, and which were Word's to a particular person.

For instance the Spirit of Christ inspired the following:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Wouldn't we need to "Prove" through study if this command was meant for "all mankind, and that before we could be clean we must all charter a flight to this region and wash in this river? This is why this same Christ also inspired:

2 Tim. 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and again:

2 Tim. 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

and again;

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this worldWould this also include religions of this world?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

So when a man does as the Christ instructs, as I believe we should, then he will find that the Christ didn't command all men everywhere to go fishing, or to fly to some certain place and wash ourselves in a certain river.

But the Christ, the Word of God, did create instructions for all, and it is our duty, as the scriptures above clearly indicate, to "Prove", through these same Scriptures, what is that perfect Will of God. AS for the Sabbath, the root of this entire conversation:

Is. 54:
1 Thus saith the LORD, (Word which became Flesh) Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Is this not for all mankind?

3 Neither let the son of the stranger,(Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And again:

Mark. 2:
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Did He not say the following as the Word of God to all people?

Ex. 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And again, are these Word's for all people?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Yes, John 10 and 14 sound like they are for all people. And again, I don't think Jesus is saying that he and the father are the same in every respect.

This concludes my response to post 864. Hope you liked it!

 

[Shamah]

Great post. Especially the reminder in John 8 that shuts down the idea that Christians are still sinners. And Salvation is not eternal.

I would say that "true christian" are not living in sin, but a title does not make one true. I have known "pastors" that ran large churches that were not good people, not that they can not change but at that time they were in bondage to a life of sin... But I do agree that those who are truly in the Messiah do not walk in a life of sin.

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin





1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”

*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

praiseYah! He changes the heart!

Psalm 51:10, “Create in me a clean heart, O Yah, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.”

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

I believe you had said that you did not eat meat with blood in it, because it violates the first and second commandment of the ten. And this is because blood is used in the worship of false gods. Drinking blood I think you said.

So, following that reasoning, that standard, I suggested that drinking alcohol and having sex are also used in the worship of false gods. Thus, using the standard you had implied, one would think that one wouldn't do those things also.

But you are correct that such an approach is absurd. So, I asked again, if you do not eat meat with blood in it, why not? I believe you had said that the only Commandments from the Old Testament that you keep is the 10.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Was the Pharisees view on the Sabbath based only on Jeremiah 17.21? I would think that the story about God saying to Stone the man who was collecting wood on the Sabbath would also play into it.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

I don't believe you gave a scripture that said we are to eat only Christ flesh and drink only his blood. Jesus does talk about eating his body and blood, yes and that is connected to dwelling in him. But I don't see anything in the passage that is exclusive about it.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Okay, so the saying that we are what we eat is not in the scriptures, but science does tell us that the building blocks of the food that we eat is what our body uses to build itself.

So, for example, a person may eat bread. That doesn't mean that they turn into bread. Because the body breaks down the chemical components of bread into things that it can use which it reassembles into human flesh.

And the same is true if we eat meat with blood in it.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Now, if people with organ transplants talk about having the memories of another person after the surgery, that would imply that the life is in the organ as well. But the Bible says that the life is in the blood. The organs are perfectly lawful to eat are they not?

 

[Dan_473]

I'm afraid you're making a false comparison. For instance, I can take your POV and argue that we're not supposed to eat because pagans eat and so because we worship Yah I mustn't eat. That would be me taking what Yah told us and then adding to it creating my own doctrine. That's exactly how the pharisees stumbled, and why Christ kept having to correct them in Yah's law.

They took what Jeremiah 17:21 explained about honoring the sabbath and then took it further to say "well then we aren't to carry anything in our hands on the sabbath", and then incorrectly accused Christ of telling someone to break Yah's law because he told the healed man to take up his mat.



But I gave the scripture where Christ commanded this. As far as "we are what we eat" being folk wisdom and wherher in the scriptures; the process of digestion and energy absorption from what we consume aren't detailed in the scriptures either but we don't deny their truth.

Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of God, concerning his eternal power and godhood, are are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that man has no excuse."

Natural truth was meant to confirm spiritual truth because the earth is the shadow of the heavenly.



Interestingly enough, you should look up the multitude of cases of people who have received organ transplants or major transfusions who have reported experiencing memories of different people as well as personality changes. It's amazing.

The life is in the blood.

This conversation reminds me of what Christ said to Nic..

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Also, if you have stories of people who have other people's memories after major organ transplants and transfusions, I'm interested in hearing them.

I wonder if they will be similar to people's out of body experiences or alleged memories of past lives.

 

[Lillywolf]

I would say that "true christian" are not living in sin, but a title does not make one true. I have known "pastors" that ran large churches that were not good people, not that they can not change but at that time they were in bondage to a life of sin... But I do agree that those who are truly in the Messiah do not walk in a life of sin.

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin





1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”

*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

praiseYah! He changes the heart!

Psalm 51:10, “Create in me a clean heart, O Yah, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.”

I don't agree with the phrase, "true Christian".
Because by implication it necessitates the invention of its opposite. And only God knows the heart and the names of those whom his Grace speaks to and calls to his son.

If someone accepts the truth in John 8:31-32 they cannot then interpret 1 John 1:8-10 as claiming to say the redeemed in Christ are still sinners.
It simply fly's in the face of logic of the composition of the teachings in each chapter and book.
1 John 1 was speaking to those who would argue with the teaching they are the sinner who sins. And as such needs to repent and be reborn in Christ by God's grace in order to have life eternal.
John 8 is the teaching as to who we are when we have arrived as that reborn, renewed, regenerated, one.
Someone who is regenerated is not their former self. To say a Christian is still a sinner before God and commits sins, not only revokes the authority of John 8, but the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
God remembers our sins no more.
He lied?
No. Man lies. And that is a sin.

 

[Yahshua]

[...]

Sheeze Dan! A barrage.

 

[Shamah]

I don't agree with the phrase, "true Christian".
Because by implication it necessitates the invention of its opposite. And only God knows the heart and the names of those whom his Grace speaks to and calls to his son.

If someone accepts the truth in John 8:31-32 they cannot then interpret 1 John 1:8-10 as claiming to say the redeemed in Christ are still sinners.
It simply fly's in the face of logic of the composition of the teachings in each chapter and book.
1 John 1 was speaking to those who would argue with the teaching they are the sinner who sins. And as such needs to repent and be reborn in Christ by God's grace in order to have life eternal.
John 8 is the teaching as to who we are when we have arrived as that reborn, renewed, regenerated, one.
Someone who is regenerated is not their former self. To say a Christian is still a sinner before God and commits sins, not only revokes the authority of John 8, but the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.
God remembers our sins no more.
He lied?
No. Man lies. And that is a sin.

I think generally we are on the same page but maybe word things differently? IDK. I will try to make clear statements:

If someone is "regenerated" they will not contine to live a life of sin.

Yah indeed knows the heart, and ones actions are a reflection of their heart.

A "christian" by true definition is one who is "christ like" thus will live similar to the Messiah.

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

 

[Dan_473]

I see. So you believe If I ask God "what can I do to be like you" (an immortal God) He will tell me to do the same thing He has told all mankind since He spoke to Cain.

But if I go to God and just ask Him, "please make me a God," He will just grant it to me no questions asked.

I can see how that would look "good" and a desired religion for sure. But I just don't think that is what the Messiah had in mind when He said.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

No, I believe you have misunderstood what I wrote.

Eternal life is something that Jesus will give to people. making them an immortal God is not something he will do.

So it's a combination of what you asked for, and what you think your role in it will be.

 

[Dan_473]

Who is the Christ? Is He not the Word of God which was made Flesh and dwelt among us? Did He not say:

Ex. 20:
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Did He not say:

Jer. 31: After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And again:

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

And again:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Yes, Jesus Christ is the word made flesh.

He is not the same in every respect as Yahweh, unless Jesus sits at his own right hand and talks to himself.

 

[Lillywolf]

Yes, Jesus Christ is the word made flesh.

He is not the same in every respect as Yahweh, unless Jesus sits at his own right hand and talks to himself.

Everything has meaning in parables and Judaism. Which is largely a faith clad in secret using numbers and words as cloaks for deeper meaning. Necessary in times of persecution.
The right hand means something too. It is symbolic.
Hear oh Israel our God, our God is one.