Sabbath

[Dan_473]

here:

Joshua 8:30-35
Then Joshua built an altar unto the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal, As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up [any] iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel. And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.


the whole Law, in handwriting, on stone at Ebal, the mountain representing the curse, as a testimony to Israel, against them, because as it was told from the first, they would break the covenant God made with them.

Yep, and the New Covenant is written with the spirit on our hearts, not with letters on Stone!

Unfortunately,
2 Corinthians 3: 14. But their minds were hardened, for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains, because in Christ it passes away.

 

[Shamah]

Yes I agree with everything you wrote. I think that not only does walking by the spirit line up with the written word, but the spirit also guide you into all truth about that word.

And yes every aspect of the Fruit of the Spirit is in line with the Commandments of God. One difference being that growing the fruit of the spirit is not a particular set of physical actions, as say, going to the place where the Lord causes his name to dwell to celebrate a feast. Or stoning someone.

Well to say walking in the spirit can not/is not at all effecte by physical actions is false, if one is stealing, lying and murdering they are not walking in the Spirit. Now I know you will say Im blowing thigns out of perportion BUT consider this, how can we walk against Him physically and st the same time be in His Spirit... We can not... Now to the examples you used, I personally believe the Moadim/Feasts are valid, and since there is no physical temple we donlt go to a physical temple to keep them, we go to THE Temple not made with hands... and about the stoning... we are not judges, the Messiah is the judge, when He returns He will do much worse than stone the wicked. However as I said that is His role, it would be like you saying Commands are done because a regular guy wont act as High Priest, it is not their job, it is the Messiah;s job...

 

[Dan_473]

I get it, this is your ticket of justification.

I believe the Messiah was mocking the Mainstream Preachers of His time. Because there is more verses in the Bible than this one verse you hold on to. I posted some of my thoughts, but you ignored them. That's OK. You can believe God killed the poor people who broke the Sabbath and spared the preachers who did the same if you like. But I don't buy this line of thinking. I believe they were blameless because they did as the Lord instructed specific Priests to do. According to the Sabbath the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time had created, yes, they defiled that Sabbath. But it wasn't defiling God's Sabbath to walk in fellowship and eat a strawberry or ear of corn, and it wasn't against God's Sabbath for the Priests to perform the duties specifically given to them.

But I do understand how important it is for modern religions to believe Jesus broke His own Sabbath, and as the Word instructed others to do so as well.

"You can believe God killed the poor people who broke the Sabbath and spared the preachers who did the same if you like. "

I don't believe that, unless you are referring to God saying that the man picking up sticks should be stoned, yet most of the Pharisees in Jesus day seem to live out their natural lives.

I hold to the entire Bible not just a verse here or there. CC won't let me post the entire Bible, but I can post a link if you like. Of course when talking about the scriptures, as humans we often talk about them one passage at a time.

 

[Shamah]

I did not contradict myself. Fulfilling the law and the prophets is not the same as fulfilling all the prophecies in the law and the prophets. Do you agree that the law and the prophets is to do to others like you want them to do to you?

The intent of the writing is to be loving yes, do unto others as you want done untp you...

This does not mean
the prophets
do not contain
the prophecies they spoke.....

Luke 24:44-, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End..."

I could give you more the 50 prophecies in "the prophets about the return of Messiah that are not yet fulfilled...

 

[Dan_473]

.... raound and round we go... Can you actually acknoledge this for once:

This COvenant in Jer 31 and quoted in Heb 8 and 10 is ratified in the bloof of Yahshua:

Hebrews 10:14-20, “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart. And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before, This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,” (Jer 31:33, Heb 8:8-12) and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” (Jer 31:34) Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a sacrifice offering for sin. So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,”

SO here is my question concerning this;

If you believe Gentiles have not part in this Covenant, what part do Gentiels have with the Messiah? As THIS IS the Covenant ratified by Him...

I do believe that the Covenant talked about in Hebrews chapter 10 is ratified by the blood of Jesus.

I believe my original objection was whether that Covenant is the same one that Jesus says this is the New Covenant in my blood.

I believe I said from the start that it probably is however, since a person can be under more than one Covenant at the same time it's possible that there are more than one covenants being talked about. It was just a question I wanted to explore.

 

[Dan_473]

So do you believe He has already had His second coming? Because that is the most spoken prophecy in the prophets...

No, again you are assuming that fulfilling the law and the prophets is the same as fulfilling all of the prophecies written in the law and the prophets.

 

[Shamah]

You keep quoting Psalm 105, but there's no necessary connection between the Covenant in that psalm and the Covenant that God made with Israel when he brought them out of Egypt.

Do you agree that a person or people can be under more than one Covenant at the same time?

If you considered PS 105... you would see the same covenant made with Abraham contiued all the way to Israyl...

No not to YHWH, enting into a covenant is binding, your whole premise is different than what I believe Scripture shows. One can;t be under the blood of Yahshua that ratifies the Covenant-the right side of the ark, and be under the blood on the left side of the ark... Hebrews explains this well, chapter 7, you need to study the greek, change and change, same words in english, different in greek: metathesis/cange and metathititamai/change...

 

[Dan_473]

Well to say walking in the spirit can not/is not at all effecte by physical actions is false, if one is stealing, lying and murdering they are not walking in the Spirit. Now I know you will say Im blowing thigns out of perportion BUT consider this, how can we walk against Him physically and st the same time be in His Spirit... We can not... Now to the examples you used, I personally believe the Moadim/Feasts are valid, and since there is no physical temple we donlt go to a physical temple to keep them, we go to THE Temple not made with hands... and about the stoning... we are not judges, the Messiah is the judge, when He returns He will do much worse than stone the wicked. However as I said that is His role, it would be like you saying Commands are done because a regular guy wont act as High Priest, it is not their job, it is the Messiah;s job...

Do you remember the example I posted about the medic who shot, effectively murdered, the wounded man?

In the law, I believe it is the people who act as judges. If you say this has been changed with the coming of Jesus, so that now Jesus is the only judge, then that sounds to me like a change in the law.

If the law can be changed to that amount, then to me it all makes perfect sense that the entire law is fulfilled by loving your neighbor.

And if the law is changed to that extent, then it wouldn't make sense to keep going back to look at what was written in the law to see how to live now that Jesus has come and changed the law.

 

[Shamah]

Do you agree that all humans are under the Covenant that God made not to destroy the Earth again by flood? That would mean every Israelite is under at least 2 Covenants.

Or the rainbos covenant is only in place because it is a part of the eternal covenant, to prserve YHWH;s plan.

And lets say for the sake of debate its yes, those who don't enter the kingdom, that is are not a part of the Covenant ratified in the blood of Yahshua, will be burnt by fire, Yah said He will not flood again, did not say He will not destroy the earth, when the Messiah returns this will happen:

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

Isayah 51:6, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look on the earth beneath, for the heavens shall vanish like smoke, and the earth wear out like a garment, and those who dwell in it die as gnats. But My deliverance is forever, and My righteousness is not broken."

 

[Dan_473]

The intent of the writing is to be loving yes, do unto others as you want done untp you...

This does not mean
the prophets
do not contain
the prophecies they spoke.....

Luke 24:44-, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End..."

I could give you more the 50 prophecies in "the prophets about the return of Messiah that are not yet fulfilled...

I agree that the law and the prophets contain prophecies.

Fulfilling the law and the prophets is not the same as fulfilling the prophecy is written in them.

I know that's a difficult concept, it's similar to Jesus talking about being born again.

 

[Shamah]

I agree that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. I'm not sure what translation it is that you're using that says righteousness which is similar to doing good, but not the same.

And in the process of doing good, a person may well profane the Sabbath.

I disagree that Jesus is copying someone else's words there.

Impossible doing good/righteousness IS the PURPOSE of the Sabbath:

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”

 

[Shamah]

Yep, and the New Covenant is written with the spirit on our hearts, not with letters on Stone!

Unfortunately,
2 Corinthians 3: 14. But their minds were hardened, for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains, because in Christ it passes away.

exceot most people that claim this hate His Law, how can you hate and fight against something that is in the heart?

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

 

[Dan_473]

If you considered PS 105... you would see the same covenant made with Abraham contiued all the way to Israyl...

No not to YHWH, enting into a covenant is binding, your whole premise is different than what I believe Scripture shows. One can;t be under the blood of Yahshua that ratifies the Covenant-the right side of the ark, and be under the blood on the left side of the ark... Hebrews explains this well, chapter 7, you need to study the greek, change and change, same words in english, different in greek: metathesis/cange and metathititamai/change...

I agree that the covenant made to Abraham, and the covenant made with Israel when they came out of Egypt, I agree that those two Covenants are similar, they have a lot of overlap.

do you believe that you are no longer under the Covenant that God made After the flood saying he would no longer destroy the entire Earth by flood?

 

[Shamah]

I do believe that the Covenant talked about in Hebrews chapter 10 is ratified by the blood of Jesus.

I believe my original objection was whether that Covenant is the same one that Jesus says this is the New Covenant in my blood.

I believe I said from the start that it probably is however, since a person can be under more than one Covenant at the same time it's possible that there are more than one covenants being talked about. It was just a question I wanted to explore.

So even though it says it is ratified in the blood of Messiah you say its not, well then what does this mean:

"enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of Jesus/ יהושע, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh"


Hebrews 10:14-20, “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart. And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before, This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,” (Jer 31:33, Heb 8:8-12) and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” (Jer 31:34) Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a sacrifice offering for sin. So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,”

 

[Shamah]

No, again you are assuming that fulfilling the law and the prophets is the same as fulfilling all of the prophecies written in the law and the prophets.

No Im useing the word to understand it is:

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.

 

[Dan_473]

Or the rainbos covenant is only in place because it is a part of the eternal covenant, to prserve YHWH;s plan.

And lets say for the sake of debate its yes, those who don't enter the kingdom, that is are not a part of the Covenant ratified in the blood of Yahshua, will be burnt by fire, Yah said He will not flood again, did not say He will not destroy the earth, when the Messiah returns this will happen:

Isaiah 24:1-6, "See, יהוה is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants. 2 And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor; 3 the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for יהוה has spoken this word. 4 The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish. 5 For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torah, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant. 6 Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.”

Matt 24:21-2, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

Isayah 51:6, “Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look on the earth beneath, for the heavens shall vanish like smoke, and the earth wear out like a garment, and those who dwell in it die as gnats. But My deliverance is forever, and My righteousness is not broken."

Yes the Covenant that God made with Noah After the flood, Noah and his offspring which includes me, the Covenant is that the Earth will never again be destroyed by flood.

I think it says somewhere maybe Peter that the Earth is preserved for fire, not the elements will melt with intense Heat.

 

[Dan_473]

Impossible doing good/righteousness IS the PURPOSE of the Sabbath:

Isaiah 58:11-14, “YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it.”

I believe your understanding of when Jesus says the priests profane the Sabbath would require that Jesus is copying someone else's words or logic. I disagree.

 

[Dan_473]

exceot most people that claim this hate His Law, how can you hate and fight against something that is in the heart?

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

God puts his laws in our heart, but they are not written the same way that the laws that were given by Moses at Sinai. Those laws could be written with letters. The laws that God puts in our heart cannot be written with letters.

 

[Dan_473]

So even though it says it is ratified in the blood of Messiah you say its not, well then what does this mean:

"enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of Jesus/ יהושע, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh"


Hebrews 10:14-20, “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart. And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before, This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,” (Jer 31:33, Heb 8:8-12) and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” (Jer 31:34) Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a sacrifice offering for sin. So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,”

No, I believe I said that I did agree that the Covenant talked about in Hebrews 10 is ratified by the blood of Jesus.

 

[Dan_473]

No Im useing the word to understand it is:

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.

Yes, everything written in the law and the prophets has to be fulfilled.

But Jesus didn't use those words in Matthew 5, did he? He didn't say written in the law and the prophets. Nor did he say has to be fulfilled, he said I came to fulfill.

Also in the Luke passage Jesus adds the Psalms. Interesting, yes?