Does the ascension of Christ implies a flat earth?

[Locutus]

I take things at face value

 

[Dino246]

Since Christ was a Spiritual being at the time of His assertion, couldn't He have appeared in their mind, and disappeared when He ascended? They were the only ones to see Him, yes?
...
So for me His assentation has nothing to do with the physical earth, or planets of our existence. He manifested His Spiritual self to them is their mind, just as the servant of Elisha was allowed to see the protection God had afforded to Elisha.

Food for thought.

Unfortunately that food is missing some salt:

John 20: 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Jesus' resurrected body was physical, not just spiritual. His physical body ascended.

 

[Dino246]

i've entertained that idea before, except, He proved that wasn't the case:

While they were still talking about this, Jesus Himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”​

They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself! Touch Me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, He asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and He took it and ate it in their presence.​

(Luke 24:37-43)​

they thought He was a ghost/spirit -- but 'food for thought' He ate a fish to demonstrate He was there in the body

Methinks you were thinking what I was thinking.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Since Christ was a Spiritual being at the time of His assertion, couldn't He have appeared in their mind, and disappeared when He ascended? They were the only ones to see Him, yes?

let's just all make things up then

let's just ignore what scripture says and create new stories out of our imagination

(scratching head) has the Bible changed in the last 10 years or so? all this new stuff isn't any translation I have

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Now that I know the earth is flat, i'll never take a boat from europe to south america. EVER!
I AINT THE ONE to fall off!

On a serious note: If any flat-earther is reading this, I have a question: What is your strongest evidence that the earth is flat? Bring it.

well they have pictures

here:

and here's another:

 

[Studyman]

i've entertained that idea before, except, He proved that wasn't the case:

While they were still talking about this, Jesus Himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”​

They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself! Touch Me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, He asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and He took it and ate it in their presence.​

(Luke 24:37-43)​

they thought He was a ghost/spirit -- but 'food for thought' He ate a fish to demonstrate He was there in the body

And yet He appeared to them by entering a room in which the doors were closed. I do not say He didn't appear to them in "A" Body. I'm suggesting His Body was not of this world, and if He could appear to them by entering a room without opening a door, then it seems He could disappear from them without flying through the air out of sight into the sky.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


So I see your point, and do not disagree that He can manifest Himself in whatever form He wishes. But I do believe He is a Spirit now and not Flesh and Blood as you and I.

I was mostly replying to the idea that His assentation had anything to do with the physical shape of our earth. I don't believe it does.

 

[Studyman]

Unfortunately that food is missing some salt:

John 20: 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Jesus' resurrected body was physical, not just spiritual. His physical body ascended.

And yet He appeared to them by entering a room in which the doors were closed. I do not say He didn't appear to them in "A" Body. I'm suggesting His Body was not of this world, and if He could appear to them by entering a room without opening a door, then it seems He could disappear from them without flying through the air out of sight into the sky.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


So I see your point, and do not disagree that He can manifest Himself in whatever form He wishes. But I do believe He is a Spirit now and not Flesh and Blood as you and I.

I was mostly replying to the idea that His assentation had anything to do with the physical shape of our earth. I don't believe it does.

 

[Dino246]

And yet He appeared to them by entering a room in which the doors were closed. I do not say He didn't appear to them in "A" Body. I'm suggesting His Body was not of this world, and if He could appear to them by entering a room without opening a door, then it seems He could disappear from them without flying through the air out of sight into the sky.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


So I see your point, and do not disagree that He can manifest Himself in whatever form He wishes. But I do believe He is a Spirit now and not Flesh and Blood as you and I.

I was mostly replying to the idea that His assentation had anything to do with the physical shape of our earth. I don't believe it does.

What Jesus could have done is somewhat irrelevant when stacked against what He actually did.

Yes, He apparently walked through walls, so there is some difference between His resurrected body and our mortal bodies. However, there isn't a single verse of Scripture suggesting that He presently has no physical body.

Regarding your "assentation" (which is not a word), it's spelled "ascension". Jesus "ascended"; His "ascent" into heaven was witnessed by the disciples. He didn't "assent" (agree passively) or "assentate" (which isn't a word either).

 

[Endoscopy]

Christ was ascending up from the middle east area into the sky until a cloud took him from people's sight.

If we imagine a flat earth with a dome and heavens above it, then Christ simply ascended into heavens.

If we imagine a 21st century view of our constantly orbiting planet in the solar system inside the milky way inside the universe, such ascending up has what meaning? The heaven of God is not "up" from us. If you do not believe that Christ has his throne in our sun or some similar "cosmic" theology.

ROFL
Even back then they knew and understood that the earth was a globe. Only a few believed in a flat earth. Those by the sea could see the curvature and as a ship goes out to sea the sight of it slowly disappears from the bottom to the top of the sails. That means they knew the earth was round.

 

[posthuman]

And yet He appeared to them by entering a room in which the doors were closed. I do not say He didn't appear to them in "A" Body. I'm suggesting His Body was not of this world, and if He could appear to them by entering a room without opening a door, then it seems He could disappear from them without flying through the air out of sight into the sky.

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


So I see your point, and do not disagree that He can manifest Himself in whatever form He wishes. But I do believe He is a Spirit now and not Flesh and Blood as you and I.

I was mostly replying to the idea that His assentation had anything to do with the physical shape of our earth. I don't believe it does.

i believe His body is still flesh/bone/physical as well as that He is a spirit. it is something different than what we are now. i think the passage in Luke i quoted was proving that He is physically resurrected in a real, actual body ((as well as when He invited Judas to put his finger in His side)). it's not a body as ours, but it's not immaterial, either "it hath not yet appeared what we shall be" -- also He spoke of drinking wine again in the kingdom ((@ last supper)), indicating that our form will be one that takes food and drink, which doesn't fir with how we as humans think of 'spirit beings' does it?
in re: appearing in the upper room, something to think about is that before the resurrection He passed through angry crowds who meant to seize Him ((ex. Luke 4:30)). the physical universe was already ((and always)) at His command.
ultimately this is a mystery ((i think)) we won't know until He redeems our bodies, making them like His.

here's the question that comes into my mind after i discard the idea that He was only resurrected as a projection in their minds eye:

they saw Him rise until a cloud obscured Him:
how small does an human body appear when it's far enough away to be obscured by a cloud?
were they watching Him shrink into a speck in their sight with distance? an human eye can only recognize a persons face from ~ 100 to 150ft at maximum, by physical limitations. how far away are the clouds? did they just see a dot at that point, or .. ?
did His appearing follow natural physical law here? or did He appear 'larger than life' ?
are we reading about a 'normal' rising up into the air of a physical object, like a rocket ship, or is this something more miraculous? miraculous not just in the fact He was defying gravity - how many physical laws was He demonstrating power over with this act?

 

[posthuman]

And yet He appeared to them by entering a room in which the doors were closed. I do not say He didn't appear to them in "A" Body. I'm suggesting His Body was not of this world, and if He could appear to them by entering a room without opening a door, then it seems He could disappear from them without flying through the air out of sight into the sky.

there's actually no physical law that prevents a body from passing through and suddenly appearing in the middle of a locked room. it would be quantum tunneling on a macro scale - physics doesn't say that this is impossible; it says it is fantastically, amazingly, almost unintelligibly impossible. subatomic particles tunnel in such a way all the time, it's demonstrated and observable, but not en-masse and not across great distance - though not because it is not possible, but because it is hugely improbable, by a margin larger than the number of atoms in the universe.

we should be careful we don't get ourselves knee-deep into some kind of gnostic view that the physical universe itself is evil & God has no part in it - He created it and called it good - or some weird JW idea that there was no physical resurrection.

 

[Locutus]

Jesus has a spiritual body as John relates:

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Also see Paul on the resurrection:

1 Cor 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus has a spiritual body as John relates:

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Also see Paul on the resurrection:

1 Cor 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

but He didn't leave a natural body in the tomb; He was raised, bodily, and we shall be raised like Him. literal resurrection is what Paul is defending throughout this chapter - we were sown in corruption and will be raised in incorruption; this is written as though tautologically equivalent to being sown a natural body and raised a spiritual one. as though the natural, physical body is exactly the thing raised as a spiritual one.

i'm not meaning to contradict what's written here; not that the resurrected body isn't spirit, but that's also tangible, physical. maybe it is uncorrupted matter, not the corrupted matter we inhabit now? just as 'new heavens and new earth' unpolluted by sin?
some people might say 'spiritual body' and mean completely non-physical, intangible, an apparition. i don't think that's quite the right way to understand this.

 

[Locutus]

this is written as though tautologically equivalent to being sown a natural body and raised a spiritual one. as though the natural, physical body is exactly the thing raised as a spiritual one.

Not really Bones:

1 Cor 15:37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

 

[posthuman]

Not really Bones:

1 Cor 15:37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

a seed doesn't grow into a seed; it grows into a plant. but the plant is made from the substance of the seed.

the disciples thought Jesus was a ghost, but He showed them, He is tangible, He eats, He is not an apparition. it is an actual spiritual 'body' not a spirit merely appearing as a body only in the minds eye. He showed them His scars and when He did that He wasn't tricking their minds into visualizing scars; they are real.

 

[Locutus]

I think there is some confusion between our posts Bones - I was not implying the spiritual body is some kind of ghost, it is a real body just not the same that goes in the ground.

A seed "dies" to give rise to the tree, it is not longer the seed, but the analogy should not be pushed too far.

 

[Jewel5712]

Wasnt this already argued over in another thread? Why the repeat?

 

[Jewel5712]

I wonder what mother Earth thinks about being called 'flat?'

Never knew a flat female (mother aka female) ..has curves SOMEWHERE..lol

 

[Jewel5712]

My head is a sphere...more or less

and I promise you that I have a face on it too

My thoughts exactly..lol

 

[Karraster]

Some stars are only visible from Southern Hemisphere and others only from northern. Flat earth dismissed.

Orion can be seen in both hemispheres for about 5 months of the year. We see some of the same stars, just from different perspectives. The Bible says the heavenly bodies are in the firmament.