The Abomination of Desolation
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I'm really not sure whether real or figurative.
I do, however, see that there will be some very dire environmental issues according to Revelation 9, which appear to indicate food supplies running short, which in turn result in the worlds leaders being influenced by the four released dark side angels to initiate a global genocide.
This may be caused by no rain or clouds. So it may be that at the end of this (the beasts system), the Lord returns is on a literal cloud/s and with rainfall.
I do, however, see that there will be some very dire environmental issues according to Revelation 9, which appear to indicate food supplies running short, which in turn result in the worlds leaders being influenced by the four released dark side angels to initiate a global genocide.
This may be caused by no rain or clouds. So it may be that at the end of this (the beasts system), the Lord returns is on a literal cloud/s and with rainfall.
I think it's figurative and that's why go with the straight forward verses to understand the passages in Luke. To me Jesus coming with clouds isn't as definitive as "this generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled".
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
I answered you in post 158 but here it is again.
To start with the grammar says it's Christ. The subject of verse 26 is the Messiah and the bit about the prince to come is a side note. Verse 27 continues with the subject of verse 26 which is Christ.
But the main reason I believe that is because Christ according to Paul confirmed the Abrahamic covenant.
Gal_3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Also when Christ was crucified he became the ultimate sacrifice and ended the need for animal sacrifices.
To start with the grammar says it's Christ. The subject of verse 26 is the Messiah and the bit about the prince to come is a side note. Verse 27 continues with the subject of verse 26 which is Christ.
But the main reason I believe that is because Christ according to Paul confirmed the Abrahamic covenant.
Gal_3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Also when Christ was crucified he became the ultimate sacrifice and ended the need for animal sacrifices.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The 70 weeks are concerning the amount of time Israel has left to do all the things in Daniel 9:24. The verses after verse 24 explain the things that happen in those 70 weeks so that we can know the time frame.
The 70 weeks are concerning the amount of time Israel has left to do all the things in Daniel 9:24. The verses after verse 24 explain the things that happen in those 70 weeks so that we can know the time frame.
The only other place I see death and hell mentioned together is in Revelation 6:8.
Death is the fourth horseman, and hell follows him.
After having previously shown in earlier posts that the beast with ten horns which devours and stomps over its victims (Daniel 7:7) represents the Northern kingdom in Daniel 11; which demolishes numerous Middle Eastern nations, including the land of Israel (Daniel 11:40-41), all of which representing the Southern kingdom; I then realize the Northern kingdom as one of the two entities, either death or hell which will fly morning after morning, by day and by night over the land of Israel taking a daily sacrifice of many lives (Isaiah 28:18-20).
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Isaiah 28:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Death is the fourth horseman, and hell follows him.
After having previously shown in earlier posts that the beast with ten horns which devours and stomps over its victims (Daniel 7:7) represents the Northern kingdom in Daniel 11; which demolishes numerous Middle Eastern nations, including the land of Israel (Daniel 11:40-41), all of which representing the Southern kingdom; I then realize the Northern kingdom as one of the two entities, either death or hell which will fly morning after morning, by day and by night over the land of Israel taking a daily sacrifice of many lives (Isaiah 28:18-20).
Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Isaiah 28:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
E
If you look at the first part of Chapter 9, Daniels prayer concerns Israel, and Gods punishment of them, which is at the end of the 70 years. The answer responds to this prayer. Thus it can not be about jesus.
I have him and some of his budies on ignore and can not see what they post. If he answers. Please share.. I am interested to see what he says,
I have him and some of his budies on ignore and can not see what they post. If he answers. Please share.. I am interested to see what he says,
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The Bible uses the word generation to indicate a beginning in two difernt ways.
One in respect to a household in respect to a father, mother and children a unit as the generation of evil, natural man as those who walk by sight or called the generation of Adam (.approx. 40 years) And another the supernatural as the generation of Christ in respect to the spiritual seed(one ) Christ.
The supernatural shown in Genesis 3:15 prophesying beforehand in respect our husband Christ. He crushes the head of the serpent.
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;( Christ) it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Genesis 3:15
The generation of Christ (the spiritual seed) making a new creation out of the evil generation of natural unconverted man .
The evil generation as that which will not pass away until all is fulfilled is the generation of man (Adam) in respect the literal seeds (flesh)
Mathew give us the genealogy of the unseen, the generation Christ ending with Christ
Matthew 1 :1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Matthew 1 :16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Luke 3 give us the genealogy of the temporal seen the generation that began in Adam. One forward the other backward.
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.Luke 3:38
lol, Me either EG!!!!
In the past many who do believe that way would give a challenge to Read the writings of Josephus(a whole lot of reading) because they thought it would help in proving their eschatology but most wont do it. Why is that it is not scripture and so it puts a foul taste in many's mouth and so they refuse to read it or see it even as a historical document.
I am (NOT a preteist) and do not believe the AOD,the mark of the beast ect. were fulfilled between ad66-70. Why is because many years ago my thoughts were in that "I did not care if this camp or the other was correct I just wanted to know what was". In the same I am also (NOT M.A.D.) and so have no desire to deny that Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70.
Locutus I count as a dear friend of mine(a brother in Christ) although we differ on this(AOD,mark of beast ect.) and see him as very intelligent and has shown me he is honest about things we have discussed. So the post between me and him might seem rash but bare in mind he referred to me as Markus and changed from Dispensational to futuristic because he knew it was accurate(bless you brother,lol).
You have the scriptures to work with which are a type of scale to weigh anything against. They are what any document is compared to in Christian eschatology. Again though as in this case Adam Clarke was quoted,quoting Josephus so anyone who has never read the things from Josephus will agree without reading it or read it to see if it is so.
In Wars 2 from Josephus http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html (if you read it,lol) you will find a weapon that will completely change how you look at the AOD and the mark of the beast. Look for this,,, "piety",,"offerings",, but why?
In the bible(scale) those who worship the beast are who it says receive his mark. In wars2 the Jews are accused of impiety meaning they did not worship nor hold any regard to Caesar/Rome as any type God/Holiness ect. (opposite from scripture).
In wars 2 the Romans try several times to have their images set up in Jerusalem and other synagogues(other cities in Judah) and the Jews riot every time because it would pollute the temple of God (again opposite to scripture those who receive the mark worship the image).
Look at wars2 chapter 18,find "Pella"(notice the place you are told they fled to is sacked and its people killed between ad66-70),lol not such a safe place to flee to right?
In the Scriptures Revelation 13:17 no one can buy or sell unless they do so with the beast mark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage (notice the Jews are not using the Romans money any more)? So if Rome is the beast they did not buy and sell with their money.
Much more I could say but Ask yourself if the Jews worshiped Rome/Caesar or if they revolted against it/him and notice that in Scripture the ones who receive the mark and worship the image of the beast are the ones within the walls of Jerusalem during the siege...
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The daily sacrifice in Daniel has nothing to do with animal sacrifice and taking away the daily sacrifice is something that is associated with satan/antichrist all the time, i don't know why anyone would want to associate it with Jesus:
Dan 8:12 And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did. 13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long until the fulfillment of the vision of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”
Dan 11:31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.
In fact, taking away the daily sacrifice causes the abomination, so taking away daily sacrifice= abomination that causes desolate. Why associate evil with God?
Jesus' crucifixion annuls what we call annual sacrifice and not daily sacrifice. Jesus crucifixion sets up daily sacrifice which is also called worshiping in truth and spirit.
Heb 10:
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”
Dan 8:12 And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did. 13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long until the fulfillment of the vision of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”
Dan 11:31 His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation.
In fact, taking away the daily sacrifice causes the abomination, so taking away daily sacrifice= abomination that causes desolate. Why associate evil with God?
Jesus' crucifixion annuls what we call annual sacrifice and not daily sacrifice. Jesus crucifixion sets up daily sacrifice which is also called worshiping in truth and spirit.
Heb 10:
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”
Yeah it may about the Old Covenant. I was reading in the verse before 18 where it was talking about laying a foundation stone in Zion. What do you think about the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15. We know that happened in AD 70 do you think it happens twice, once back then and then again at the end?
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
The abomination of desolation is simply blasphemy against the Holy anointing Spirit, Christ. (Contributing the works of one to another) It is the same a plagiarism stealing the authorship of one and giving it over to another
In that way the abomination of desolation in effect violates the first commandment not to have any unseen false gods before our Creator and redeemer.
When the time of reformation came.... the abomination of desolation began. The veil is rent .
In that way the abomination of desolation in effect violates the first commandment not to have any unseen false gods before our Creator and redeemer.
When the time of reformation came.... the abomination of desolation began. The veil is rent .
Heb_7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Are you saying that the sacrifices in Heb 7:27 is not animal sacrifices? Also isn't the writer of Hebrews speaking of the daily sacrifice?
Are you saying that the sacrifices in Heb 7:27 is not animal sacrifices? Also isn't the writer of Hebrews speaking of the daily sacrifice?
So what you are saying is that the Lord is describing the abomination of desolation as some sort of material object that will be placed in a rebuilt temple which does not acknowledge Christ as Lord that from which the faithless in Christ who live in Israel should then run? Do you not see how your perspective is multi-flawed?
In contrast: We have numerous scriptures identifying an entity that will destroy the Middle East, including the land of Israel.
Do you think this entity may qualify as an abomination because of its making numerous Middle Eastern nations desolate?
We also have numerous scriptures that the temple of the Lord is within those faithful to Him, and not in some stone building.
As such, do you think that if the beasts system which the whole faithless world will adore, also to some degree will affect the faithful, may represent the beasts system standing in the place where it ought not, in the Lords temple within the hearts of the faithful?
In contrast: We have numerous scriptures identifying an entity that will destroy the Middle East, including the land of Israel.
Do you think this entity may qualify as an abomination because of its making numerous Middle Eastern nations desolate?
We also have numerous scriptures that the temple of the Lord is within those faithful to Him, and not in some stone building.
As such, do you think that if the beasts system which the whole faithless world will adore, also to some degree will affect the faithful, may represent the beasts system standing in the place where it ought not, in the Lords temple within the hearts of the faithful?
The verse you are talking about has nothing to do with daily sacrifice. The context means that Jesus offers something permanent and is not temporary. Day after day doesn't necessarily mean daily but repetitive.
Heb 7:26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
1. You have not addressed the fact that in Dan 11 and Dan 8, it is the antichrist that takes away the daily sacrifice and taking away the daily sacrifice results into the abomination that causes desolate- something we can not associate with God.
2. Hebrews 10 clearly addresses which kind of sacrifice that Jesus abolishes, it is the annual animal sacrifice and not daily
3. The animal sacrifice symbolic of remission of sins in the OT was not being performed daily but annually and in set Jewish holidays.
Heb 7:26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
1. You have not addressed the fact that in Dan 11 and Dan 8, it is the antichrist that takes away the daily sacrifice and taking away the daily sacrifice results into the abomination that causes desolate- something we can not associate with God.
2. Hebrews 10 clearly addresses which kind of sacrifice that Jesus abolishes, it is the annual animal sacrifice and not daily
3. The animal sacrifice symbolic of remission of sins in the OT was not being performed daily but annually and in set Jewish holidays.
Ex 30:10Once a yearAaron shall make atonement on the horns of the altar. Throughout your generations he shall make atonement on it annually with the blood of the sin offering of atonement. The altar is most holy to the LORD.”
Lev 23:26Again the LORD said to Moses, 27“ The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. You are to hold a sacred assembly and humble your souls and present an offering made by fire to the LORD. 28On this day you are not to do any work, for it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the LORD your God.
1 Sam 1:21Then Elkanah and all his house went up to makethe annual sacrifice to the LORD and to fulfill his vow,
1 Samuel 2:19
Each year his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him when she went with her husband to offer the annual sacrifice.
So did Jesus really abolish the daily sacrifice?!! i think He abolished the annual sacrifice, daily sacrifice is something different.
Lev 23:26Again the LORD said to Moses, 27“ The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. You are to hold a sacred assembly and humble your souls and present an offering made by fire to the LORD. 28On this day you are not to do any work, for it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the LORD your God.
1 Sam 1:21Then Elkanah and all his house went up to makethe annual sacrifice to the LORD and to fulfill his vow,
1 Samuel 2:19
Each year his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him when she went with her husband to offer the annual sacrifice.
So did Jesus really abolish the daily sacrifice?!! i think He abolished the annual sacrifice, daily sacrifice is something different.
Num 28:3 And thou shalt say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.
Are you sure about the daily sacrifice thing not being daily? Isn't numbers 28:3 saying that 2 lambs should be sacrificed every day?
Are you sure about the daily sacrifice thing not being daily? Isn't numbers 28:3 saying that 2 lambs should be sacrificed every day?