Jewish & Gentile Relationship

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#81
Ok I have a question. How are you going to reach a Orthodox Jews. If they are following their faith they are not to listen or discuss matters of Torah with one that is not descend from the tribe of Israel? If your ancestors are not of those that encamped around Mount Sinai you are not to Be listened too . That’s a tough hurdle . Also the great commission has us going outward from Jerusalem. Not leaving but spreading. So it is to everyone
Blessings
Bill

Bill
Ah you ask very good Bill. I like your question a lot. You seem very humble in your statement.

1. Difficult? 100%. Our saviour and Master Yeshua laid out his own life for his own people and for the rest of the world. Now, Yeshua himself states, "if you want to follow me, you must be willing to lay down your own, life, pick up your cross and follow me", along with various demanding parables, for those who desire to follow Yeshua.

My answer to this is simple, yet it takes a long explanation. In short, if you are not willing to get out of bed early, if you aren't willing to pray daily if you aren't willing to sacrifice yourself for those you are in disagreement with, well surely you will not desire to lay down your life.

I state this to say if you REALLY desire to do the works and labor Yeshua and G-d desire us to do, for ourselves, families and communities and more...it starts with ourselves. But, no matter how little effort you put in, if you GENUINELY put the effort in, G-d will help you equally or more to the effort you started to do.

How does this answer relate to reaching Jews? Like Paul, on of the best examples of a Jewish Believer, he "BECAME LIKE" whoever his audience was (while holding to being Jewish of course). THATS AMAZING!!! Powerful really and Paul himself tells us to "be like him". So if you desire to reach the Jewish people (Gentile or NOT), you should begin to read your bible with much depth. But the funny thing is, if you start reading from Genesis in these various English forms, you'll realize A LOT does NOT make sense. So is G-d's word lacking? NO HEAVEN FORBID. Jews, not because I say so or they said so, but Jews are G-d's chosen people and the people G-d gave the Torah to understand and to be taught. So who understands the BIBLE the best? Jews! But at the same time, one may NOT understand the bible, love Yeshua and have a humble and great heart.... FANTASTIC!!!!!! But, when it comes to "theology" or understanding the bible, not only do you need to learn Hebrew, but you have to master understanding all the "errors" (seemingly at first) or "holes" in the bible with Jewish understanding and an Oral Torah that was given through Moshe to teach it.

Ex: A general fact is G-d does NOT state the "how to" to any of the commands really. What really is idolatry? What is defined as stealing? What does it mean to "remember" and "guard the Shabbat" (should I remember in my head, my calender, should I guard it from demons or pagans?), What constitutes as honouring and respecting my parents yet the bible never told me to LOVE my parents? Why? Why did G-d say not to murder and they should die, yet G-d also told Moshe to command murderers to run away? ...and this list could go on and on and on.

From this in "short" you have 2 people:

a) Those who say (Jewish people do this just as much as Christians....because this is a human flaw of "laziness"): "It's old, we have Jesus, there is no Torah anymore (yet G-d said it was eternal.....), everything is summed up by love"....etc. Basically any excuse to refrain from WORK and be like Paul.

b) There are a few who recognize the POWER and INFINITE WISDOM (just like Proverbs tells us to seek or we are fools and on the road to death spiritually) that G-D'S word has and either endlessly toil with truth or some make a mess of it.

What does this mean? If those who are like B) desire TRUTH, well soon enough they will realize that there are MANY levels of truth FOR ALL ASPECTS of LIFE and that truth itself is INFINITE, (hence why Jews never stop studying) and those you will gain much respect for the "Orthodox" Jewish people and understand why G-d, Yeshua and all the Disciples agreed to "listen to the Pharisees but do not do what they do" (Matt 23:1-3). Why Yeshua followed many Oral Traditions along with Mastering the Torah Perfectly, Why the disciples picked certain commands from the Noachide laws and stated this for Gentile Believers... "(4 Noachide laws)...For from the earliest times, Moshe has had in every city those who proclaim him, with his words being read in the Synagogues every Shabbat" (Acts 15:19-21).

Put ALL scripture together so it all lines up (which truth believers all called to do) and your result will be a deep and amazing understanding of the bible, that is NOT just knowledge, but it is wisdom that you USE for your life and every soul on this earth. THEN you can not only reach Jews, but ALL forms of life with a GREAT understanding.

Just like Paul who studied MORE (and he was already a master at being a Pharisee under the Great Gamliel) after meeting Yeshua, only then did he understand how to master bring Jews and Gentiles together.

Anyone can do this if they really desire too! Once they do, they really will have the Jews "provoked and jealous" because the real Messiah, the real Yeshua will be revealed covered with the perfection of G-d's word, not 40,000+ various versions, because G-d IS ONE! Meaning everything on earth G-d created and has an "aspect" of holiness and if EVERYTHING, even SUFFERING, "EVIL" (human perspective) and WAR does not add up, then it is not G-d who is wrong, it is the one who lacks the wisdom to understand G-d's perfection!

2. REMEMBER: I NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER state that a Gentile Believer IS OR MUST OBEY the Torah. Yet, many Christian takes such an offense or at least a negative outlook on the Torah....that G-D HIMSELF MADE. In short, my full belief in G-d's perfect Torah for the Jewish people to maintain seems to be rejected by Christians...which the Torah DOES NOT EFFECT. This is why Orthodox Jews (not secular Jews) HATE CHRISTIANITY and sadly....never read the New Testament because of its followers....The Torah clearly states ANYONE who disregards the Torah is a FALSE PROPHET. So either Jesus is false and clearly is presented that way when Christians reject the Torah and Oral Torah (yet it does not effect them) OR Yeshua is the Messiah and he is just covered up in 40,000+ outfits...Just like...YOSEF! Hence why Yeshua is Mashiach Ben Yosef and not Mashiach Ben David...just yet that is, for he will return as Mashiach Ben David and I PRAY that people will be ready.....

"Not everyone who sayd Lord Lord! will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On that day, many will say to me, Lord Lord, did we not PROPHESIZE in your name? Did we not EXPEL DEMONS in your name? Did we not perform MANY MIRACLES in your name? Then I will tell them to THEIR FACES...'depart from me you, I never knew you'" (Matt 7:21-23). Why does he say "I never knew you"? Because WE NEVER KNEW HIM! G-d is a just G-d! He is to us, as we are to Him.

3. What am I doing? I have personally decided to convert with my full belief in Yeshua. I am not only well accepted in multiple cities in North America by various Rabbi's, but many are astounded by my conversion and my insight to following G-d's word. Where I am now, my personal Rabbi has made me an "Assistant", yet I am not fully converted yet. PRAISE G-D for such a miracle. Why though?

Simple. Yeshua stated this: "For if you really believed Moshe, you would believe me; because it was about me that he wrote. But if you don't believe in what he wrote, how are you doing to believe what I say?" (John 5:31-47). What does this mean? If Jews are not obedient to the Torah and struggle with living out both the Letter & the Spirit of the Law in LOVE, (which is written all over the Torah and the Tanakh), then why on earth would they believe in a Christian or even Yeshua himself when they say "Yeshua is the Messiah, you must accept him?". Would you go an see a Lebron James All Star Performance if you hated basketball? No. So why do I state this? Because IFFFFF I can bring back Jews to the CORRECT why of following the Torah...then if Yeshua is the true Mashiach, then the only obstacle to "FIGHT" is his current followers.... Remember, the Jewish - Christian relationship (up until 50+ years ago) IS UGLY. Horrific, Anti-semetic and bloody. Would you accept the people and "its" Messiah if your grandparents and parents were killed directly or indirectly by millions of people who proclaim to "love their enemies????". 6 MILLIONS JEWS died both directly and indirectly to the entire world ignorance and Anti-Semetic though process, especially Canada and America in the early 30's when they REJECTED Jews running away from Europe. So how would you feel by accepting that Messiah and what would it truly cost you? Sure, we can all say, he love Jesus, thats easy, but to ACT on what we are called to do? Now thats a hard thing to do, just like you said. But with FAITH and TRUST like Avraham.....it is possible! G-d saved the world through single-handed men throughout the ages...He can do it again.

4. I am sorry for writing so much. G-d's word is BEYOND simple and it takes a lot to get out the truth without looking 'biased'. This is all based on scripture and when one can proof scripture in a better light AND it can still make sense to everything else...only then will one have my attention. Hence, why I decided to be Jewish, because Jews in a LOVING manner, fight over every Word of G-d, to BRING OUT the TRUTH and WISDOM for our lives, our families, our community and the world, just like Yeshua! :)

May G-d Be With You And I Pray This Helps and Inspires You. Truth Lies with the Few...Not the Crowd.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#82
Again, the question is ignored. Why did Yeshua follow so many?

2nd: Paul makes a whole bunch of commands himself (a Pharisee himself as he would state) so what do you say on his oral laws?
Jesus did not follow after any oral laws .They make His written law without effect. Paul inspired the holy Spirit was not following oral traditions as a law of the fathers .That was before he was born again from above. Paul supported all things written in the law and the prophets (sola sciptptura)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#83
So is G-d's word lacking? NO HEAVEN FORBID. Jews, not because I say so or they said so, but Jews are G-d's chosen people and the people G-d gave the Torah to understand and to be taught. So who understands the BIBLE the best? Jews!
You are missing the "o" in the word God. That alone tells me much.

As far as who understands best seeing we are to call no man father or teacher, as Master/Rabbi on earth because one is our teacher as Master in heaven .It becomes obvious that God is the best teacher. He lovingly commands us the rightly divide his word as it is written.... as his prescribed way to seek after His approval.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Even when the Son of man Jesus in respect to his flesh seen was called good teacher as Rabbi. He gave glory to the father not seen and declared to us ….Only God not seen is good. We walk by faith and not by what the eyes see.(hermeneutics 101)

He warns of the antichrists who say we need a man seen to teach us.(1 John 2:26-27)He instructs us as it with the word it representing the faith of God, as it (God's word) teaches us we abide in Him not seen and not the antichrists as that seen . they are the ones who are doing the seducing

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing (teaching) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing (teaching) teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:26-27

God is the best teacher


But at the same time, one may NOT understand the bible, love Yeshua and have a humble and great heart.... FANTASTIC!!!!!! But, when it comes to "theology" or understanding the bible, not only do you need to learn Hebrew, but you have to master understanding all the "errors" (seemingly at first) or "holes" in the bible with Jewish understanding and an Oral Torah that was given through Moshe to teach it.
God understands all the languages in the world. In Acts 2 he proved he is the father of many nations by giving all the tongues His understanding. It was a sign against the Jew who believed God must speak Hebrew . He mocked those who mocked him and that way with stammering lips as a sign against them .(Isaiah 28)

Ex: A general fact is G-d does NOT state the "how to" to any of the commands really. What really is idolatry? What is defined as stealing? What does it mean to "remember" and "guard the Shabbat" (should I remember in my head, my calender, should I guard it from demons or pagans?), What constitutes as honouring and respecting my parents yet the bible never told me to LOVE my parents? Why? Why did G-d say not to murder and they should die, yet G-d also told Moshe to command murderers to run away? ...and this list could go on and on and on.
We seek his approval for an answer in all the things you mentioned . New creatures are not of the flesh. Neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female. Jesus said of his own Jewish flesh it profits for nothing. How much is nothing?

God is not a man as us never was never could be. And neither is there a fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire between the things of God, not seen and the things of men, seen ..called a daysman. (Job 9:33

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the "Spirit of God" dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#84
Jesus did not follow after any oral laws .They make His written law without effect. Paul inspired the holy Spirit was not following oral traditions as a law of the fathers .That was before he was born again from above. Paul supported all things written in the law and the prophets (sola sciptptura)
a) John 12:13 / Matt 21:9 / Mark 11:10 - Hosanna is part of the Hallel chants that our chanted at every Pilgrimage festival (Sukkot, Pesach & Shavuot). It is a biblical command that every Jew be in Jerusalem on these 3 Holy Days. Everytime, Yeshua comes, why on earth would that always be singing Hallel and be waving palm branches sometimes? (Leviticus 23:4 teaches us about the 4 species on Sukkot and one of them were Palm Branches).

b) John 10:22-24: Chanukkah/Feast of Dedication. Clearly, this celebration was to mark the victory of the Jews over the Hellenistic times a few centuries earlier and clearly it is NOT in the Torah. Jews today celebrate this day clearly as an ORAL COMMAND because it isn't in the Torah. Not only that, but it WAS a Jewish custom to be in the Portico of Solomon. Do you know why? Yet Yeshua does it.

But somehow, Christians think it is perfectly fine to celebrate PAGAN holidays like Christmas and Easter, yet reject the holidays that celebrate the victory of G-d's chosen people. Explain that one...

c) John 7:37 Hosannah Rabbah/Greatest day of the Sukkot Festival.

1. Hosannah Rabbah is fully Oral
2. The custom derived from Isaiah 12:3 of the Cohen's/Priests drawing the water and singing Hallel again is Oral and Yeshua clearly uses it to his advantage (he isn't condemning anyone)
3. The Torah DOES NOT ever explain HOW to celebrate Sukkot, yet every Jew knows how, including Yeshua. I wonder how?

d) Making Blessings BEFORE you eat. G-d never commanded anyone to make a blessing before you eat, only AFTER you eat bread. So is Yeshua being extra religious for adding blessings before eating? Yet every Jew does the same thing and it again is in the Oral Torah. So that's corrupt and "legalistic" if I pray before I eat?

e) Acts 1:12 "Shabbat Distance/Walk". Tell me, where on earth did the disciples know about the distance one could walk on Shabbat? And why would they follow such a law AFTER the death of Yeshua?

f) If there really is no difference between Jew and Gentile, why on earth is the Jew 1st (Romans 1:16). What is a Jew in your definition? Because a Jew is one not by birth, that means nothing. A Jew is one who fulfills G-d's Torah that was made ETERNAL and one who changes such a perfect word, is a false prophet (its written all over Deuteronomy).

g) So wait, Paul is inspired by the Holy Spirit to give laws but Moshe wasn't? You mean there were no Righteous men from Moshe to Paul? Every Jew is some crazy sinner? Moshe is the origin of the Oral Torah. Do you even know what the Talmud is? It only uses the framework of the Torah within itself to explain and extract the inner meaning of G-d's word. Again, the written Torah is the instruction manual, but the Oral Torah is the HOW TO. Because you cannot answer any commandment G-d gives without it.

Ex: How do you "guard or honour the Shabbat"? How do you honour and respect your parents yet you are not commanded to love them? What constitutes as idolatry? Why are Gentiles refered to animals most of the time in the Tanakh? Why did G-d condemn murder and call for murderers to be killed yet told Moshe to make a city of refugee for murderers elsewhere?
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#85
You are missing the "o" in the word God. That alone tells me much.

As far as who understands best seeing we are to call no man father or teacher, as Master/Rabbi on earth because one is our teacher as Master in heaven .It becomes obvious that God is the best teacher. He lovingly commands us the rightly divide his word as it is written.... as his prescribed way to seek after His approval.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Even when the Son of man Jesus in respect to his flesh seen was called good teacher as Rabbi. He gave glory to the father not seen and declared to us ….Only God not seen is good. We walk by faith and not by what the eyes see.(hermeneutics 101)

He warns of the antichrists who say we need a man seen to teach us.(1 John 2:26-27)He instructs us as it with the word it representing the faith of God, as it (God's word) teaches us we abide in Him not seen and not the antichrists as that seen . they are the ones who are doing the seducing

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing (teaching) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing (teaching) teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:26-27

God is the best teacher




God understands all the languages in the world. In Acts 2 he proved he is the father of many nations by giving all the tongues His understanding. It was a sign against the Jew who believed God must speak Hebrew . He mocked those who mocked him and that way with stammering lips as a sign against them .(Isaiah 28)



We seek his approval for an answer in all the things you mentioned . New creatures are not of the flesh. Neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female. Jesus said of his own Jewish flesh it profits for nothing. How much is nothing?

God is not a man as us never was never could be. And neither is there a fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire between the things of God, not seen and the things of men, seen ..called a daysman. (Job 9:33

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the "Spirit of God" dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
The problem is....everything you quoted is understood best by Jews just like Paul and Yeshua told the Gentiles. Why? Because in your mind, you think "I have the holy spirit and thus, G-d knows my heart". Oh yes, so G-d is now a subjective Being that anyone can state based on feeling. No. The Spirit of G-d ALIGNS with His word. Just read the book of Proverbs and either Paul is a hypocrite to King Solomon's words, or certain Christians just DO what they FEEL.

You slam the Holy Language that created this world and Yeshua stated NOT ONE JOT OR TITTLE shall pass from (Matt 5:17-19), and you replace what the true meaning of G-d sending out various languages was to be used for. Remember, the 10 tribes of Israel (The Northern Tribes) were lost in the Diaspora amonst many Gentile nations. So, many lost their Hebrew and Jewish roots but the soul still carries it. This is why the gift of speaking in many languages was given, so you could GO TO THE WHOLE WORLD and bring Jews and now Gentiles back home. I didn't say knowing Hebrew = Salvation. But Christians only focus on salvation and forget that there is a whole world of issues, problems, complications and understandings that need to be done.

But eh what I am to say anything, just look at the history of Jews and Christians, it speaks for itself. Jews bring the most blessings in this world, like G-d promised to Avraham. All your technology and scientific advancements come from those who study Torah. Is G-d not allowed to use the physical world to help the world? It's all some sort of emotional/spiritual high from throwing up your hands and saying Hallelujah?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#86
Dont let the nobody take your freedom in Christ away from you and tangle you into rules and regulations of the pharisees.

Whenever I read that m*slims, hebrew roots people, and many cults despise Easter and Christmas it just makes me want to celebrate them even more. I will wish everyone a merry Christmas and dont care who is offended, what are they gonna do about it?

Im just saying this to make people think: WHO do you want to side with? Which side? The side of the Church, or the side of .....?

I guess this would be a good time to finally answer the OP question. The relationship between jew and gentile is this: There is one people of God, the CHURCH made up of both JEWS and GENTILES.
Thats how it is.
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#87
Dont let the nobody take your freedom in Christ away from you and tangle you into rules and regulations of the pharisees.

Whenever I read that m*slims, hebrew roots people, and many cults despise Easter and Christmas it just makes me want to celebrate them even more. I will wish everyone a merry Christmas and dont care who is offended, what are they gonna do about it?

Im just saying this to make people think: WHO do you want to side with? Which side? The side of the Church, or the side of .....?

I guess this would be a good time to finally answer the OP question. The relationship between jew and gentile is this: There is one people of God, the CHURCH made up of both JEWS and GENTILES.
Thats how it is.
You celebrate Christmas...explain how this is not only a Pagan holiday, a time when Yeshua couldn't have been born, but even more so, that is exactly what a "tradition of man" is.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#88
John 12:13 / Matt 21:9 / Mark 11:10 - Hosanna is part of the Hallel chants that our chanted at every Pilgrimage festival (Sukkot, Pesach & Shavuot). It is a biblical command that every Jew be in Jerusalem on these 3 Holy Days. Everytime, Yeshua comes, why on earth would that always be singing Hallel and be waving palm branches sometimes? (Leviticus 23:4 teaches us about the 4 species on Sukkot and one of them were Palm Branches).
Waving Palm branches is part of a ceremonial law that was in effect until the time of reformation.

It like all ceremonial laws that use the things seen as a shadow to represent the unseen eternal (2 Corinthians 4:18) were used to announce the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ before hand .

Some Jews today still worship shadows and cry out when looking at a wall. Christ fulfilled the law that acted as a shadow by that parable. The time of reformation has been here for over two thousand years.

b) John 10:22-24: Chanukkah/Feast of Dedication. Clearly, this celebration was to mark the victory of the Jews over the Hellenistic times a few centuries earlier and clearly it is NOT in the Torah. Jews today celebrate this day clearly as an ORAL COMMAND because it isn't in the Torah. Not only that, but it WAS a Jewish custom to be in the Portico of Solomon. Do you know why? Yet Yeshua does it.
It must of been inspired during the intertestamental period and not moved to be recorded until we do read of it. That was before God finished his book of the law .the Bible. Today the possibility of a new revelation is not possible. Jesus does not follow after the oral traditions of men but rather as it is written.(a work of His faith)

But somehow, Christians think it is perfectly fine to celebrate PAGAN holidays like Christmas and Easter, yet reject the holidays that celebrate the victory of G-d's chosen people. Explain that one...
They celebrate victory yet refuse to believe he has come in the flesh making them antichrists.(no faith)

What good is celebrating victory if a person does not trust the word of God as the final authority in matters of faith (the unseen eternal) .

c) John 7:37 Hosannah Rabbah/Greatest day of the Sukkot Festival.
1. Hosannah Rabbah is fully Oral
2. The custom derived from Isaiah 12:3 of the Cohen's/Priests drawing the water and singing Hallel again is Oral and Yeshua clearly uses it to his advantage (he isn't condemning anyone)
3. The Torah DOES NOT ever explain HOW to celebrate Sukkot, yet every Jew knows how, including Yeshua. I wonder how?
We can cerebrate all the ceremonial laws in the same way seeing they are carnal works that profit for nothing We understand it is a shadow pointing to the unseen eternal . Ceremonial sabbaths cannot be judged. No judging shadow of the true, the unseen.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Colosians 2:14-16

d) Making Blessings BEFORE you eat. G-d never commanded anyone to make a blessing before you eat, only AFTER you eat bread. So is Yeshua being extra religious for adding blessings before eating? Yet every Jew does the same thing and it again is in the Oral Torah. So that's corrupt and "legalistic" if I pray before I eat?
No man can serve two teaching masters .The oral traditions of men as the temporal "things of men" and the written tradition of God as the "things of God" the eternal not seen. Again God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly mediator to stand between God and man as a infallible umpire(daysman) .

Peter found out the hard way when he blasphemed the holy name of God. His way of trying to force feed the Son of God, Jesus the oral tradition as a law of the fathers. Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen .Today it is not forgivable against the Holy Spirit not seen.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Or in John again blasphemying the holy name by which we called trying to create a new oral tradition of men.

If Jesus had to dispel all the oral traditions of men and write them down the whole world would not be able to contain the books that could be written One example is enough for most.

Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.John 21:21-25

e) Acts 1:12 "Shabbat Distance/Walk". Tell me, where on earth did the disciples know about the distance one could walk on Shabbat? And why would they follow such a law AFTER the death of Yeshua?
A sabbath day's journey is a journey performed on a Sabbath day. Nothing more and nothing less. The Jews as a oral tradition turned it into a distance just as they changed the requirement of the fast from one meal saved from the prior day. It became three Kosher meals.The self righteous made it two meals on the sabbath.

When on a sabbath Jesus told his kingdom of priest the believers..... to go out into the world and make disciples of men .He did not say check the latest oral tradition as to how far they can walk to bring the gospel. (The true fast).





g) So wait, Paul is inspired by the Holy Spirit to give laws but Moshe wasn't? You mean there were no Righteous men from Moshe to Paul? Every Jew is some crazy sinner? Moshe is the origin of the Oral Torah. Do you even know what the Talmud is? It only uses the framework of the Torah within itself to explain and extract the inner meaning of G-d's word. Again, the written Torah is the instruction manual, but the Oral Torah is the HOW TO. Because you cannot answer any commandment G-d gives without it.

ye we can answer all the questions with it the new testament simply aids our understanding as we do sek the approval of God by rightly diving His word.Not the words of the fathers..

There were many men who had the imputed righteous of Cjrist who works in the to both will and perform His good pupose .it why it law and the prophets ogether that make (sola scriptura) the fathers tried to make all things written in the law and the prophets herset y so that men could rather follow after the orl traditions of those father.

Ex: How do you "guard or honour the Shabbat"? How do you honour and respect your parents yet you are not commanded to love them? What constitutes as idolatry? Why are Gentiles refered to animals most of the time in the Tanakh? Why did G-d condemn murder and call for murderers to be killed yet told Moshe to make a city of refugee for murderers elsewhere?
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#89
he Bible. Today the possibility of a new
Jesus did not follow after any oral laws .They make His written law without effect. Paul inspired the holy Spirit was not following oral traditions as a law of the fathers .That was before he was born again from above. Paul supported all things written in the law and the prophets (sola sciptptura)
You know I am replying to this and through all this, you have not answered why Yeshua still followed these. You know nothing has changed from how it is celebrated or how any law is unless it is in affiliation with the Temple (then it cannot be done). I am not arguing to start performing Oral Traditions, especially for Gentiles, but I am answering your statement about Yeshua doing more than the written law.

With all your statements, you never really answered my questions, especially the last one.

But at a bare minimum, if you can answer all the "questions within the NT", then why do you have the Tanakh in your bibles? At least throw it out and stop desecrating the Torah and Tanakh by misusing Paul out of place.

The book of Colossians is primarily written to Gentile believers (like most of his books), so of course, Paul says what he says to Gentiles. He isn't talking to Jews. Please, if you are going to try and use the NT, use it in its right context and not make "soundbite" theologies and arguments that do not align with the entire text.

Just stick to being a good humble human being, until you can use wisdom behind the deeper understandings of this book. This is what it means NOT to desecrate or profane G-d's name.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#90
My name is Mike and I truly have a heart for all people on this earth to know G-d and His Messiah Yeshua/Jesus. It is evident that the church has done a wonderful if not an excelling job at reaching various nations (especially in the last 50 years), and spreading the word of G-d to the best of their abilities. But does it not stump you for one minute, that we are not reaching Orthodox Jews? One needs to go no further than any of the Gospels or Romans 11 to recognize one major part of being a "Christian" or "Follower of the Messiah", is to reach the Jewish people about their 100% Kosher/Jewish Messiah. To go even further, we know that Yeshua/Jesus has not completed the FULL mission of what a Messiah must do and the Jews call this Mashiach Ben Yosef (Messiah Son of Yosef) and he will need to return as Mashiach Ben David. Now, this is not to disregard the teachings of Sha'ul/Paul to the Gentiles and their non-observance of the Torah, but as Colossians 1:9-13 teaches us, we even as Gentiles have the Spirit to KNOW G-d's wisdom (Torah), in order to "provoke" Jews back to their Messiah.

Question: Why are we either not reaching this goal of redeeming the Orthodox Jewish Community OR why are we not questioning ourselves for not fulfilling such a major part of our role, which will ring in the Messiah's 2nd coming?
the Jews had no problem accepting the teachings of Jesus, the 12 and St Paul, it was only hundreds of years later that Jews would all of a sudden have nothing to do with the message. it sounds to me the message taught by Jesus may not be the same message taught later.
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#91
You are 100% right. I like that answer. I just hope we can be humble and wise to seek the truth and not be laxitive on the work we were called to do.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#92
You are 100% right. I like that answer. I just hope we can be humble and wise to seek the truth and not be laxitive on the work we were called to do.
i agree, i also believe Christians should always examine themselves first before ever pointing fault on any group that is not Christian.
 
Oct 8, 2018
108
23
18
#93
i agree, i also believe Christians should always examine themselves first before ever pointing fault on any group that is not Christian.
The only way to examine yourself truthfully, is through the word of G-d as it states. I find that Proverbs and Psalms puts me back where I need to be when needed.

G-d does love the whole world so I hope we can make like Paul and learn to push ourselves to understand differences and see how they connect, rather than condemn others who don’t believe.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#94
i agree, i also believe Christians should always examine themselves first before ever pointing fault on any group that is not Christian.
My heresy-detector is beeping. Lets try the basics:

1. Do you believe in the triune God? Yes/No?
2. Do you believe in hell? Yes/No?
3. Do you believe in a literal bodily resurrection of Jesus and the saints? Yes/No?

Im getting sick and tired of Christians taking the blame for everything in this world. You can disrespect the bible in public no problem, you can disrespect Jesus no problem, dare do that to ANY other religion and all hell is loose.
Lets not tremble in the eyes of unbelievers but rather lets be bold.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#95
My heresy-detector is beeping. Lets try the basics:

1. Do you believe in the triune God? Yes/No?
2. Do you believe in hell? Yes/No?
3. Do you believe in a literal bodily resurrection of Jesus and the saints? Yes/No?

Im getting sick and tired of Christians taking the blame for everything in this world. You can disrespect the bible in public no problem, you can disrespect Jesus no problem, dare do that to ANY other religion and all hell is loose.
Lets not tremble in the eyes of unbelievers but rather lets be bold.
ohh no!! not HERESY!!
lets take a close look at some of these heretics from the past.
the Nazarenes (sect of Jesus) - heretics
Essenes (sect of John the baptist) - heretics
Giordano Bruno - labled heretic and burned alive, his crime, he proposed the world revolved around the sun.
Galileo was accued of the same thing as Bruno and put on trial, same evidence as Bruno but his life was spared because he was close friends with the Medici family.
when viewing all this info the word "heretic" is pretty much an absent minded word in my mind.

the rest of your rhetoric makes a good example of what i was talking about to begin with.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#96
ohh no!! not HERESY!!
lets take a close look at some of these heretics from the past.
the Nazarenes (sect of Jesus) - heretics
Essenes (sect of John the baptist) - heretics
Giordano Bruno - labled heretic and burned alive, his crime, he proposed the world revolved around the sun.
Galileo was accued of the same thing as Bruno and put on trial, same evidence as Bruno but his life was spared because he was close friends with the Medici family.
when viewing all this info the word "heretic" is pretty much an absent minded word in my mind.

the rest of your rhetoric makes a good example of what i was talking about to begin with.
So the first question is already a no, then? do you believe in the triune God yes or no?
Why do you refuse to answer a simple question.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
You know I am replying to this and through all this, you have not answered why Yeshua still followed these. You know nothing has changed from how it is celebrated or how any law is unless it is in affiliation with the Temple (then it cannot be done). I am not arguing to start performing Oral Traditions, especially for Gentiles, but I am answering your statement about Yeshua doing more than the written law.

With all your statements, you never really answered my questions, especially the last one.

But at a bare minimum, if you can answer all the "questions within the NT", then why do you have the Tanakh in your bibles? At least throw it out and stop desecrating the Torah and Tanakh by misusing Paul out of place.

The book of Colossians is primarily written to Gentile believers (like most of his books), so of course, Paul says what he says to Gentiles. He isn't talking to Jews. Please, if you are going to try and use the NT, use it in its right context and not make "soundbite" theologies and arguments that do not align with the entire text.

Just stick to being a good humble human being, until you can use wisdom behind the deeper understandings of this book. This is what it means NOT to desecrate or profane G-d's name.
You forgot to mention. God not seen is the best teacher.

I did answer Jesus followed no oral traditions of men he made them to no effect like with Peter who tried to force the oral traditions of the fathers on him . We are to call no man Rabbi on earth because one is our teacher as master in heaven. No man can serve two teaching masters the written tradition of God not seen, and the oral tradition of men seen

The sabbath day walk was a walk that the Jews performed on the new era of Sabbaths the first day of the week . There is nothing indicating how far a person can walk. And the same men changed the one meal of the sabbath fast to three kosher meals. The going rate today for those who cry when looking at a wall of bricks.

The veil is rent to those who deny the father and the Son.(antichrists) The one time demonstration is over.