adoption by God

[garee]

The "redemption of our body" refers to the resurrection of believers and the moral body putting on immortality. We will have in the future a body just like the body the resurrected Christ.

Scripture informs us know one knows what we will be ?????.As new creatures a we are not considered of the flesh neither Jew nor gentile male nor female. We are typified as His wife . There will no procreating in the new incorruptible order .

Christ's corruptible body just did not see corruption for those three days .I don't think it was changed in any other way other than not decaying.. When he left he instructed even though some did know him after the flesh like faithless Thomas . Today we know him no more forever more .God is not a man as us.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2 Corinthians 5:16-17

 

[garee]

Why then is the creature waiting earnestly for God's children to be manifest, if we are already God's children?Romans 8:19

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Well simply because no one has received the earnest all die without receiving it. But we do receive the end of our new faith of Christ that does work in us. He promises if he has begun the good work of salvation he will finish it till the end.(Philippians 1:6) He does not begin todo a work and not finish it. From the first moment we can believe God not seen we have a living hope that goes beyond human hope in the promise of a new body.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: Hebrews 11:39

 

[luigi]

Well simply because no one has received the earnest all die without receiving it. But we do receive the end of our new faith of Christ that does work in us. He promises if he has begun the good work of salvation he will finish it till the end.(Philippians 1:6) He does not begin todo a work and not finish it. From the first moment we can believe God not seen we have a living hope that goes beyond human hope in the promise of a new body.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: Hebrews 11:39

If you are saying it is a work in progress before we are adopted as Gods children then I agree.
This work in progress I see in correlation with our having to overcome our carnal inclinations, before our adoption.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hey FGC...
What I'm looking for is speific scriptural support for your specific statements, not general support for the idea that sin has consequences. You stated, "Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship." Please support that specific statement with Scripture--especially the part about "separated from fellowship with God"--and please explain how the verses you give support it. Consequences for sin are not the same thing as separation from fellowship.

Death, in many scriptures means, according to Strong's (figuratively - a separation) a separation from God. Rom 5:12, Because of Adam's sin all mankind became dead (figuratively - spiritually dead) The spiritually dead becomes spiritually alive in regeneration (Eph 2:5) 1 Cor 3:3, Paul speaks of the regenerate becoming carnal (fleshly, as if they were unregenerate)(out of fellowship with God).

 

[Dino246]

Death, in many scriptures means, according to Strong's (figuratively - a separation) a separation from God. Rom 5:12, Because of Adam's sin all mankind became dead (figuratively - spiritually dead) The spiritually dead becomes spiritually alive in regeneration (Eph 2:5) 1 Cor 3:3, Paul speaks of the regenerate becoming carnal (fleshly, as if they were unregenerate)(out of fellowship with God).

Yes, but he does not write of them becoming unregenerate, and he says nothing about them being out of fellowship with God.

Please understand: I am simply challenging your assertion that sin takes us out of fellowship with God, because I see nothing in Scripture supporting that specific idea. Providing Scripture that speaks of consequences of sin (other than "out of fellowship"), God's disfavour upon sin, sin being inconsistent with life in the Spirit, etc. are all good, but don't support your key statement. I'm asking for you to be specific. What scriptural passage(s) directly support(s) the specific idea you have asserted?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, but he does not write of them becoming unregenerate, and he says nothing about them being out of fellowship with God.

Please understand: I am simply challenging your assertion that sin takes us out of fellowship with God, because I see nothing in Scripture supporting that specific idea. Providing Scripture that speaks of consequences of sin (other than "out of fellowship"), God's disfavour upon sin, sin being inconsistent with life in the Spirit, etc. are all good, but don't support your key statement. I'm asking for you to be specific. What scriptural passage(s) directly support(s) the specific idea you have asserted?

1 Cor 3:3 - For ye are yet carnal; for whereas there is among you envying and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men. Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death (a separation) figuratively from God. but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please (be in fellowship) God. Even though we have been regenerated and Jesus has died for our sins, we are secured to live in heaven, but as Paul says in Gal 5, we still have to battle with our fleshly nature and sometimes we lose that battle to the fleshly desires of our flesh which brings death (separation). We do not lose our eternal salvation by this separation.

 

[Dino246]

1 Cor 3:3 - For ye are yet carnal; for whereas there is among you envying and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men. Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death (a separation) figuratively from God. but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please (be in fellowship) God. Even though we have been regenerated and Jesus has died for our sins, we are secured to live in heaven, but as Paul says in Gal 5, we still have to battle with our fleshly nature and sometimes we lose that battle to the fleshly desires of our flesh which brings death (separation). We do not lose our eternal salvation by this separation.

All well and good, but it doesn't directly support your assertion that "sin takes us out of fellowship with God".

You're going to have to be specific in order to support your specific assertion. Either there are verses that specifically support your assertion, or there aren't. There is no shame in simply admitting that you overstated your assertion, and that you are withdrawing it.

 

[luigi]

We do not lose our eternal salvation by this separation.

These individuals in 2 Peter 2:20-22 who returned to their vomit, and to rolling around in the mire would seem to have lost the fellowship and salvation they enjoyed at first. In fact their latter condition after having known the Lord, and then leaving spiritual and choosing their carnal inclinations seems to be a worse state than if they had never believed.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

All well and good, but it doesn't directly support your assertion that "sin takes us out of fellowship with God".

You're going to have to be specific in order to support your specific assertion. Either there are verses that specifically support your assertion, or there aren't. There is no shame in simply admitting that you overstated your assertion, and that you are withdrawing it.

No offence Dino, but if you are taking the position that the word death is always referring to a literal death, in my opinion, you are going to run into difficulty harmonizing the scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

These individuals in 2 Peter 2:20-22 who returned to their vomit, and to rolling around in the mire would seem to have lost the fellowship and salvation they enjoyed at first. In fact their latter condition after having known the Lord, and then leaving spiritual and choosing their carnal inclinations seems to be a worse state than if they had never believed.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

if you do not understand the depravity of man, you will not understand the grace of God. Ezk 18:26 - When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth (figuratively)(separate himself from God) in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die (figuratively). 27- Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save (deliver) his soul alive. 28- Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed he shall surly live, he shall not die. This is talking about a timely deliverance, not eternal deliverance. 1 Cor 5:5, To deliver such an one to Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If you were among those that Jesus died for, that he said he would not lose even one. That God later regenerated, your eternal destination has been secured, God's children, do at times, commit some really bad sins. That is why we have all the scriptures where God tells us to repent

 

[Dino246]

No offence Dino, but if you are taking the position that the word death is always referring to a literal death, in my opinion, you are going to run into difficulty harmonizing the scriptures.

No offence taken. I'm not taking any particular position, other than what I have already stated: that I don't see support for your position in Scripture.

There is a big difference between not accepting your assertion, and embracing its opposite. Unfortunately many people don't grasp the distinction.

 

[luigi]

if you do not understand the depravity of man, you will not understand the grace of God. Ezk 18:26 - When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth (figuratively)(separate himself from God) in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die (figuratively). 27- Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save (deliver) his soul alive. 28- Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed he shall surly live, he shall not die. This is talking about a timely deliverance, not eternal deliverance. 1 Cor 5:5, To deliver such an one to Satan, for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If you were among those that Jesus died for, that he said he would not lose even one. That God later regenerated, your eternal destination has been secured, God's children, do at times, commit some really bad sins. That is why we have all the scriptures where God tells us to repent

You also cannot serve two masters; you will either hate one and love the other.
You will ultimately either be spiritually inclined, or carnally inclined. Depends on your free will choice, whether you wish to overcome the carnal, or not.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No offence taken. I'm not taking any particular position, other than what I have already stated: that I don't see support for your position in Scripture.

There is a big difference between not accepting your assertion, and embracing its opposite. Unfortunately many people don't grasp the distinction.

One thing for sure, we all need to keep studying.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You also cannot serve two masters; you will either hate one and love the other.
You will ultimately either be spiritually inclined, or carnally inclined. Depends on your free will choice, whether you wish to overcome the carnal, or not.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I agree with this. Is it not a blessing that God has mercy enough to forgive us when we ask him.