Book of Daniel, the key to eschatology
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Hi Thanks for the ear eternally-gratefull (great "look up" reminder "title or handle").
Reminds me what I told a friend or brother yesterday not seeing each other for some time. (10 years) When he said look up, keep looking up and not horizontal .I agreed and said to him; yes it hard to walk by faith by looking horizontally, people get in the way of His holy place.
I would offer when the Spirit of Christ says something will happen it will. But that does not rule out the poetic language he uses to signify a matter and give us his unseen understanding, as the gospel hid from natural man . And especially in the use of the word thousand when used to whatever is in view, time, people or money. (another subject)
When Christ said it was finished the veil was rent, signaling the beginning of last time or last days. The beginning of first resurrection of the spirits of the old testament saints . What ever remained of the temple after the veil was rent was rendered useless. The time of reformation had come and I believe not 70 years down the road. It does not seem to make spiritual sense if I can borrow that phrase.
Its almost like promoting idol image worship to me. I think all those temporal images were shadows of our unseen God. Shadows of the unseen glory as the face of God which will be revealed in the new heavens and earth . He does not dwell in temples made by hands and as we are informed neither is he served by the clay .He shapes us forming Christ in us as Paul metaphorically acting as a surrogate mother said.....
Galatians 4:19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
I do not try to make an interpretation of symbology, which is find the spiritual meaning purposely hidden in parable because the prophesy does not fit my belief system. But because it does fit his prescription. Parables are necessary to look to the unseen eternal. Without them, using the things seen the temporal, to give us the unseen understanding Christ spoke not or today speaks not .
Its why the Doctor of our souls give us the prescriptions to search out the meanings of parables.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
The whole period of Kings in Israel was used as a historically true parable for the time period then present to be used against the Jews that refused to hear prophecy in a hope of drawing some . The reformation came the graves were opened signified by a earthquake .The last days as a un-revealed time can come to the last day like a thief in the night . The believers are given the honor to watch for it like Noah. It will not take the beleiver by total surprise but the surprise of Joy.
Reminds me what I told a friend or brother yesterday not seeing each other for some time. (10 years) When he said look up, keep looking up and not horizontal .I agreed and said to him; yes it hard to walk by faith by looking horizontally, people get in the way of His holy place.
I would offer when the Spirit of Christ says something will happen it will. But that does not rule out the poetic language he uses to signify a matter and give us his unseen understanding, as the gospel hid from natural man . And especially in the use of the word thousand when used to whatever is in view, time, people or money. (another subject)
When Christ said it was finished the veil was rent, signaling the beginning of last time or last days. The beginning of first resurrection of the spirits of the old testament saints . What ever remained of the temple after the veil was rent was rendered useless. The time of reformation had come and I believe not 70 years down the road. It does not seem to make spiritual sense if I can borrow that phrase.
Its almost like promoting idol image worship to me. I think all those temporal images were shadows of our unseen God. Shadows of the unseen glory as the face of God which will be revealed in the new heavens and earth . He does not dwell in temples made by hands and as we are informed neither is he served by the clay .He shapes us forming Christ in us as Paul metaphorically acting as a surrogate mother said.....
Galatians 4:19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
I do not try to make an interpretation of symbology, which is find the spiritual meaning purposely hidden in parable because the prophesy does not fit my belief system. But because it does fit his prescription. Parables are necessary to look to the unseen eternal. Without them, using the things seen the temporal, to give us the unseen understanding Christ spoke not or today speaks not .
Its why the Doctor of our souls give us the prescriptions to search out the meanings of parables.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
The whole period of Kings in Israel was used as a historically true parable for the time period then present to be used against the Jews that refused to hear prophecy in a hope of drawing some . The reformation came the graves were opened signified by a earthquake .The last days as a un-revealed time can come to the last day like a thief in the night . The believers are given the honor to watch for it like Noah. It will not take the beleiver by total surprise but the surprise of Joy.
What other source then the only other I know of would be "wars 2,18.1 by Josephus" http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html but at the beginning of the war it was completely "laid waist" by the Jews.
In the link I gave in Post #60 it does list Eusebius as one of the sources but when you take Eusebius advice(ch.5.4) he says n to read Josephus(so I did) and yep Josephus said it was sacked in wars 2(other link I gave). http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm
No,I ask what he was quoting and he said Eusebius so I looked up what Eusebius said and he said Josephus said so. So then I looked at Josephus writings and saw he said it was laid waste in wars 2 18. 1 and then said it was taken back over by the Romans and given back to it's own inhabitants in Antiquities 14.4.4 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/ant-14.html and I still cant find in any of Josephus writings where Josephus said the Christians fled there. But as often as this is quoted you would think someone would know where he said it,right?
Hard to say if he's getting the "flight to Pella" from Josephus, the first mention of him is in 4:
3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.
4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable — all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.
Even if the flees did not flee to Pella (some early myth) they were told to flee when Jerusalem was compassed by armies. So the flees must have fled somewhere - lol.
3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.
4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable — all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.
Even if the flees did not flee to Pella (some early myth) they were told to flee when Jerusalem was compassed by armies. So the flees must have fled somewhere - lol.
The destruction of the Temple and the desolation of Jerusalem in AD70 was a culmination of a war between Jewish Zealots and the Roman army in which an estimated one million Jews were slaughtered. It was predicted by Christ an recorded in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 to say that this was not predicted by Daniel is rubbish. Why does Christ warn his Disciples to flee Jerusalem when they see abomination of desolation? To transplant his warning to the 21st Century Church makes no sense whatsoever unless you are booking a flight to Israel just in case.
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Following my last post its interesting to note that the Jewish war lasted for 7 years from 66 -73 AD
the same number of years that the much debated tribulation is said to run. People should really
read The Jewish War. Josephus was an actual eye witness to what happened and his horrific account
which in many ways confirms what Jesus predicted would happen within the generation living during his
ministry
the same number of years that the much debated tribulation is said to run. People should really
read The Jewish War. Josephus was an actual eye witness to what happened and his horrific account
which in many ways confirms what Jesus predicted would happen within the generation living during his
ministry
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Only a few problems with this
1. It was not worldwide
2. WW1 and WW2 made these things look like a picnic (even the prophesy of the time of Jacobs trouble said it is the greatest tribulation ever seen)
3. All life on earth was NOT threatened
4. Jesus did not return at the end (matt 24 along with Daniels to prophesies concerning the gentile kingdoms. The final of which would be destroyed by the return of christ himself)
5. Isreal did not repent and get restored
Jer 30:
7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’
This time period is the same as great tribulation (which by the way is only 3.5 years, as it comes in the middle of the week. AFTER the abomination which makes desolate is seen STANDING in the HOLY PLACE
I can read books and find anything I want to support my view. But of it does not add up, ie, if 2 + 2 does not equal 4, Then I have to own up that I believe in a lie or change my view.
1. It was not worldwide
2. WW1 and WW2 made these things look like a picnic (even the prophesy of the time of Jacobs trouble said it is the greatest tribulation ever seen)
3. All life on earth was NOT threatened
4. Jesus did not return at the end (matt 24 along with Daniels to prophesies concerning the gentile kingdoms. The final of which would be destroyed by the return of christ himself)
5. Isreal did not repent and get restored
Jer 30:
7 Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.
10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’
This time period is the same as great tribulation (which by the way is only 3.5 years, as it comes in the middle of the week. AFTER the abomination which makes desolate is seen STANDING in the HOLY PLACE
I can read books and find anything I want to support my view. But of it does not add up, ie, if 2 + 2 does not equal 4, Then I have to own up that I believe in a lie or change my view.
I posted this before but here goes:
3 1/2 yrs = the ministry of Christ = 1290 days
3 1/2 yrs = to the beginning of war = 1290 days
+45 days
1335 total
*45 days into the seige, there was a lull while part of the Roman army departed, it was during this lull that the Christians in Jerusalem fled to Pella
3 1/2 yrs = the ministry of Christ = 1290 days
3 1/2 yrs = to the beginning of war = 1290 days
+45 days
1335 total
*45 days into the seige, there was a lull while part of the Roman army departed, it was during this lull that the Christians in Jerusalem fled to Pella
