Judea tribes contained within?

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A

Adstar

Senior Member
#1
Jul 24, 2016
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#1
Hello Peoples :)

I have been thinking and a new question has come up in my mind..

We learn in the OT that the kingdom was divided into Israel 10 tribes in the north and Judea in the south..
We learn that the Israel was defeated and the 10 tribes in the north where ""lost"
So since there is only 12 tribes that leaves us with 2 tribes in Judea..
As far as i know those two tribes where Judah and Benjamin..

Now the problem.. The temple was still in existence in Jerusalem and there where members of the tribe of Levites still serving in the temple long after the loss of the 10 northern tribes..

That means there where 3 tribes still present in Judea
1) Judah
2)Benjamin
3)Levi

10 + 3 = 13 tribes when there where only 12 tribes..

Can someone explain this to me?
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#2
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#2
In numbers Moses was told not to count Levi in the census, right? Theirs is a priestly order. Would this be why?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#3
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#3
But there were still only 12 tribes.

Maybe Benjamin was not counted in the south with Judah.
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#5
Sep 20, 2018
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#5
Grandpa said:
But there were still only 12 tribes.

Maybe Benjamin was not counted in the south with Judah.
Click to expand...
Benjamin was still counted.

Joseph as a tribe was removed and his two sons each made a tribe. (Num. 1:5-15) Thus maintaining the 12.

Quantrill
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#6
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#6
I thought the Livites were relieved of their priesthood in favor of others, Judah I think…..
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#7
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#7
JaumeJ said:
I thought the Livites were relieved of their priesthood in favor of others, Judah I think…..
Click to expand...
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/judea-tribes-contained-within.180850/#post-3770985

By the time of our Savior's advent, according to the article cited, Herod's Temple was the actual Temple and the High Priest was appoited by the Romans……….I do not necessarily believe this or dismiss it, but it would tstand to reason the priesthood was of the tribe of Judah by this time.
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#8
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#8
Adstar said:
Hello Peoples :)

I have been thinking and a new question has come up in my mind..

We learn in the OT that the kingdom was divided into Israel 10 tribes in the north and Judea in the south..
We learn that the Israel was defeated and the 10 tribes in the north where ""lost"
So since there is only 12 tribes that leaves us with 2 tribes in Judea..
As far as i know those two tribes where Judah and Benjamin..

Now the problem.. The temple was still in existence in Jerusalem and there where members of the tribe of Levites still serving in the temple long after the loss of the 10 northern tribes..

That means there where 3 tribes still present in Judea
1) Judah
2)Benjamin
3)Levi

10 + 3 = 13 tribes when there where only 12 tribes..

Can someone explain this to me?
Click to expand...
Well Adstar, history tells us the makeup of Judah during Christ's day would amount to mostly Judah. Also all the tribe of Simeon was assimilated into Judah, no doubt to the curse on him and Levi. Some of the tribe of Benjamin didn't get carried away by the Assyrians because they bordered Judah and were assimilated.

Pertaining to the Levites, all the Levites ministering in the Southern Kingdom of Judah were still there. Still many more ministering in the North were carried away. So Judah, in Christ's day was all of Judah and Simeon; plus part of Levi and Benjamin. Only a small part of Levi and Benjamin were left in the South. If you count them both as taken captive, as the larger part were, and Joseph as one tribe you get the ten. :)
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#9
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#9
Adstar said:
Hello Peoples :)

I have been thinking and a new question has come up in my mind..

We learn in the OT that the kingdom was divided into Israel 10 tribes in the north and Judea in the south..
We learn that the Israel was defeated and the 10 tribes in the north where ""lost"
So since there is only 12 tribes that leaves us with 2 tribes in Judea..
As far as i know those two tribes where Judah and Benjamin..

Now the problem.. The temple was still in existence in Jerusalem and there where members of the tribe of Levites still serving in the temple long after the loss of the 10 northern tribes..

That means there where 3 tribes still present in Judea
1) Judah
2)Benjamin
3)Levi

10 + 3 = 13 tribes when there where only 12 tribes..

Can someone explain this to me?
Click to expand...
Deuteronomy 18:1–2 says that the Levites had a very special inheritance from God: The Levitical priests—indeed, the whole tribe of Levi—are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the Lord, for that is their inheritance. They shall have no inheritance among their fellow Israelites; the Lord is their inheritance, as he promised them.” The other tribes of Israel received a land inheritance in Canaan, but the Levites received no land. Instead, the Levites were given certain cities within the other tribes’ territories.

These would have been the priests serving in the temple of Jerusalem.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#10
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
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#10
Deade said:
Well Adstar, history tells us the makeup of Judah during Christ's day would amount to mostly Judah. Also all the tribe of Simeon was assimilated into Judah, no doubt to the curse on him and Levi. Some of the tribe of Benjamin didn't get carried away by the Assyrians because they bordered Judah and were assimilated.

Pertaining to the Levites, all the Levites ministering in the Southern Kingdom of Judah were still there. Still many more ministering in the North were carried away. So Judah, in Christ's day was all of Judah and Simeon; plus part of Levi and Benjamin. Only a small part of Levi and Benjamin were left in the South. If you count them both as taken captive, as the larger part were, and Joseph as one tribe you get the ten. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply.. I did not know about Simeons being in Judea... But since Jesus was a decendant of David and david was of the tribe of Benjamin then i knew the tribe must have survived in Judea..
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#11
Sep 20, 2018
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#11
Adstar said:
Thank you for your reply.. I did not know about Simeons being in Judea... But since Jesus was a decendant of David and david was of the tribe of Benjamin then i knew the tribe must have survived in Judea..
Click to expand...
David was from the tribe of Judah.

Quantrill
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#13
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
113
#13
Quantrill said:
Benjamin was still counted.

Joseph as a tribe was removed and his two sons each made a tribe. (Num. 1:5-15) Thus maintaining the 12.

Quantrill
Click to expand...
I know the tribe of Dan was removed, so the two sons of joseph replaced Joseph and Dan in the 12.. I hope i got that right?
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#15
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#15
I'm confused, again...lol. Help. Ok

Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin

12 - 1(Levi) = 11 - 1(Joseph) = 10 + 2(Joseph's 2 sons) = 12

Joseph's son's Ephriam + Manasseh replace Joseph gives us twelve, right?

But if Dan is removed due to idolatry then we are back to 11...

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
Revelation 7:4‭-‬8 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rev.7.4-8.NASB

Ok now I see Joseph is back and Levi, ?, but not Ephriam. I am clearly missing something here.
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#17
Sep 20, 2018
988
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#17
Adstar said:
I know the tribe of Dan was removed, so the two sons of joseph replaced Joseph and Dan in the 12.. I hope i got that right?
Click to expand...
No. The two sons of Joseph in the book of (Numbers) replaced Joseph and Levi. Dan is not included in the tribes that make up the 144,000 Jews during the events in (Revelation). (Rev. 7:4-8)

Quantrill
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#18
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
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#18
CharliRenee said:
I'm confused, again...lol. Help. Ok

Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin

12 - 1(Levi) = 11 - 1(Joseph) = 10 + 2(Joseph's 2 sons) = 12

Joseph's son's Ephriam + Manasseh replace Joseph gives us twelve, right?

But if Dan is removed due to idolatry then we are back to 11...

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
Revelation 7:4‭-‬8 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rev.7.4-8.NASB

Ok now I see Joseph is back and Levi, ?, but not Ephriam. I am clearly missing something here.
Click to expand...
I don't think you are missing anything. The account in (Revelation) does not include Ephraim. Yet Joseph and Levi are included. Which leaves the question as to why. Why is Dan excluded? Why is Manasseh excluded in this count? Good question.

Quantrill
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#19
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#19
Adstar said:
Hello Peoples :)

I have been thinking and a new question has come up in my mind..

We learn in the OT that the kingdom was divided into Israel 10 tribes in the north and Judea in the south..
We learn that the Israel was defeated and the 10 tribes in the north where ""lost"
So since there is only 12 tribes that leaves us with 2 tribes in Judea..
As far as i know those two tribes where Judah and Benjamin..

Now the problem.. The temple was still in existence in Jerusalem and there where members of the tribe of Levites still serving in the temple long after the loss of the 10 northern tribes..

That means there where 3 tribes still present in Judea
1) Judah
2)Benjamin
3)Levi

10 + 3 = 13 tribes when there where only 12 tribes..

Can someone explain this to me?
Click to expand...
I can explain. I am a former judaizer

The levites lived all over the place. Because they were not given a specific portion of land unlike the other tribes. (Which is why they were also supported through tithing)
So you would have levites among both kingdoms and in the lands of each tribe.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#20
Jul 24, 2016
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#20
Hevosmies said:
I can explain. I am a former judaizer

The levites lived all over the place. Because they were not given a specific portion of land unlike the other tribes. (Which is why they were also supported through tithing)
So you would have levites among both kingdoms and in the lands of each tribe.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a reasonable explanation.. Thank you for your response..
 
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