Depression

[1still_waters]

Please do not take offense, but in honesty you sound, at best, uneducated about the spiritual realm and how it fuctions, and at the worst, as if you do not believe that it really IS that easy...or that is can be.; or maybe you don't believe that Believers have that kind of authority? I don't know.

Actually I've prayed with and for hundreds right in person for a person or people to be healed. God has healed people in Jesus name while I prayed for them hands on.

But I've also seen the harm and abuse people bring on the sick by twisting his promises in to a hammer to beat them over the head with.

 

[1still_waters]

Have you recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues per Acts 2, 10 and 19?

Acts 2:4 - Baptism in the Spirit with tongues as a sign.
Acts 8:16-19 Baptism in the Spirit with NO mention of tongues a sign.
Acts 9:17-19 Paul baptized in Spirit. NO mention of tongues as a sign.
Acts 10:44-46 Baptized in Spirit. Tongues the ONLY sign.
Acts 19:4-7 Baptized in Spirit. Tongues AND Prophecy the sign.

So we have five examples here of the filling/baptism of the Spirit. Two of the five have tongues as the ONLY sign.

Two of the five have no mention of tongues.

One of the five mentions tongues AND prophecy.

So to claim tongues is THE ONLY sign. Well that's not very scriptural.

But to answer your question. I believe I've received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, but not with the sign of tongues. So I match up with two of the five examples given in scripture.

 

[MaggieMye]

"There is no physical healing in the atonement or the finished work of Christ. SAY WHAT?? As far as the sick head and the deceitful heart in us, well, WELL??? we need to hide the word in our heart and be transformed by having our minds renewed though grace and knowledge of Christ." You, dear friend have just identified yourself as one that does not believe in the Healing Power of Jesus Christ nor in the FACT that every knew must bow to the name of Jesus...every body, every plant, every cell, every fiber, even every rock which have been shown to SPEAK with the vibrations that the were created with.

Praying for you.

Maggie

 

[Red33]

"There is no physical healing in the atonement or the finished work of Christ. SAY WHAT?? As far as the sick head and the deceitful heart in us, well, WELL??? we need to hide the word in our heart and be transformed by having our minds renewed though grace and knowledge of Christ." You, dear friend have just identified yourself as one that does not believe in the Healing Power of Jesus Christ nor in the FACT that every knew must bow to the name of Jesus...every body, every plant, every cell, every fiber, even every rock which have been shown to SPEAK with the vibrations that the were created with.

Praying for you.

Maggie

Every healing that was wrought through Christ when He walked this earth had nothing to do with the atonement. Every healing that took place was through the the nature of who Christ was as the resurrection and the life. Lazarus was not brought back from the dead through any work of atonement, for Christ had not gone to the cross or shed His blood yet. He had compassion on the multitudes and He healed those that came to Him by faith and trusted Him because of who He was. If there was truly physical healing in the atonement, all those that have trusted Christ for salvation and have received the forgiveness and cleansing of all sins through the blood of Christ, there would have been an instant healing of all physical ailments, illnesses and all diseases of the body.

That does not happen and it is not something that has to be realized or appropriated by faith through a name and claim proclamation. The blood of Christ removes our sin that we might be reconciled to God. The blood of Christ has justified us by faith and covers our sin and purges our conscience from dead works that we might serve a living God. Christ blood was shed for the remission of all sin. There is not even an OT type through the blood sacrifices where any physical healings took place among the people of Israel. Where there any records or testimonies given in the scriptures concerning any of the disciples being physically healed through the work of Christ? NO! Does any of the scriptures testify as to any physical healings taking place through the atonement in any of the churches? NO! Does Jesus Christ heal people of these things that have plagued man since the beginning, YES! He is same yesterday, today and forever, but he does not physically heal though the atonement.

The blood of the atonement takes care of the sin issue between God and man and between man and God with Christ as the mediator, who shed His blood and sprinkled that blood on the mercy seat so that could be accepted by a Holy God.

 

[ed]

Hi Everyone!

I really liked that last post! You know, I'm from the school of thought that there may be a few reasons why people get sick. I believe that sometimes God will perhaps use sickness to perhaps test someone to strengthen their faith or to make them stronger. I also certainly believe that Satan can attack someone and use sickness as a vehicle for that attack. But, more often than not, I believe that getting sick is just part of the human experience. We ALL get sick! It's just the natural part of life. The best thing we can do is to try to live a good Christian life and work hard to keep ourselves healthy. When you get real sick just pray hard and go see a good doctor.

Peace.
Tim

Hi Tim,
Mark 2:9 and other books, Jesus says, What is easier, to say, your sins are forgiven or to say, Get up and walk" So some years ago, I asked Jesus why was I not forgiven as I was sick. He told my heart that I was forgiven. Then later I had a lesson where I suffered a leg injury and I prayed about this and the answer was one word. DIRECTION. I am still, years later, learning how all encompassing that one word is, Direction. So we who place our trust in Jesus Christ have been healed but as it was with Job and Paul, we are directied by Gods wisdom to KEEP us.
Then go to 1 Corinthians 11:31 about when we are judged we are disciplined by Jehovah that we may not be condemned with the world.
WE are asked to share in Christ's sufferings. Our sufferings cleanse us.

Most of these misguided faith healers damage the tender faith of the multitude. They themselves are blind.
love
edwin.

 

[ed]

In your own life. Are you telling me that you do not get sick or that if you do it is only for a very short time, hours, because you refuse to be sick etc. Yes, I refuse to be sick. First thing is to ask the Lord if there is anything I need to repent of and if so, do it. Then I take authority and command negative viruses to die and for my body to line up with the Word of God. If so then what you are saying is that you will not die. No, I'm saying that I will not have any of the enemy's plans for me come to fruition...that no weapon formed against me shall prosper. Or do you have a list of illnesses and acceptable time frames. HUH??Therefore the next time you become ill you must be expecting that it is your time to die. Double HUH??
Jesus was sick. Was Jesus lacking in faith. Not true and you do NOT find it in scripture.
Paul was constantly ill. Was Paul short on faith? AGain, where is that in scripture that he was constantly ill? Are you speaking of that proverbial thorn in his side? That was not an illness, it was a MESSENGER FROM SATAN (2 Corinthians 12:7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself!"
Job was sick. Was Job lacking in faith? Job had boils on his skin, but he was not internally, physically ill.
Timothy was sick. Was Timothey lacking in faith? Verses???
Trophimus was sick. Did he lack faith. We are told only that he was sick. We are not told what kind of sickness he suffered, only that Paul left him behind to recover.
Were the apostles around these people lacking in faith? Did the apostles complain to Jesus that the workers were sick?
I was told in one post that because people lacked faith then Jesus could not heal. This is true Mt 13:58 I ask you, Is your God so weak that negative people overpower Him. Is Jesus so weak? The consensus of people promoting healing and a lack of faith are really telling us that they believe that the unbelievers are more powerful than God. If this were true, Satan would have won hands down thousands of years ago. Have you LOOKED at the Body of Christ and how they are suffering??? Most Christians are NOT the overcomers they were created to be. Jesus didn't heal in His own home town because the people would not ask. Scripture does NOT say this, it says it was because of the UNBELIEF. Their lack of faith stopped them from asking. presumption Their lack of faith did not overule God's authority purposed in Jesus Christ.
How sad are those people who hold to this , "if your faith was strong you could .............." Faith is belief. If people do not believe, they can not recieve. It is that simple.

Hi MaggieMye,
Please note that part of your post which I highlighted. YES I REFUSE TO BE SICK. are the words. Lets talk about this.
If you do not get sick then you can not die.
oh and just for fun.
How do you share in Jesus's sufferings?
love
edwin

 

[tryingtofindhim]

Is it a sin to be depressed?

I used to be going through depression, I've been out of it for a few years now but those feelings of depression have been creeping back ever so slowly in my life. I haven't found any Biblical reference to depression so I was just wondering if you guys knew anything about it.

I believe depression is a disease. I don't believe it is a sin any more than having cancer or having a cold is. It does come from the devil and it can lead to sin, but depression itself is not a sin.

 

[MaggieMye]

Please note that part of your post which I highlighted. YES I REFUSE TO BE SICK. are the words. Lets talk about this. Go for it.
If you do not get sick then you can not die. Not true. Many in scripture just 'fell asleep'. They were not sick.
oh and just for fun.
How do you share in Jesus's sufferings? Being persecuted for being a follower of Jesus, I share in His sufferings? Why do you ask?

 

[Arteymys]

DEpression is OBsession with SELF. It is obsession with OPpression.

POssession of OBsession of OPpression is DEPression.
Yes, it is sin. Why? Becuase the focus is on SELF and not Jesus. Sometimes it is simply stinkin' thinkin' and the person needs to be retaught how to view themselves and the world around them. Other times it is demonic and the demon has access because of unrepented sin in the person's life. It can also be generational, having the iniquity passed down from generation to generation. Far too often depression runs in families. It is a twisted form of PRIDE in reverse. When a person has the stinkin' thinkin' for a long enough period of time, the demon that IS 'Depression' WILL come in and reside within the person because the door has been opened, unGodly thoughts and behavior have not been confessed and repented of.
Maggie

There are several characters in the Bible who had bouts of depression including King Solomon and Elijah. Condemning people with depression makes them worse, the best way to deal with it is show them that they are not alone. Tell them that Jesus understands their pain and that they are beautiful in His eyes and slowly they will recover from it. We have to stop making people with depression feel discriminated against: it is a disease. I know its effects and am still dealing with it and I know whatever happens Jesus wouldn't condemn me He loves me with all my inefficiencies.

 

[Arteymys]

Hi, I know what your going through. I get those moments when I can't stand myself nor life though it's been a while since I was out of it. Read the book called Beside still waters Charles Spurgeon. It gives me comfort and encouragement and hope it does the same for you too.

 

[pickles]

I believe the struggle for many is the same one I had when someone said sickness is the result of sin.
All sickness, all struggles, all that causes and is the difficulties of the world are the result of original sin.
If somone suffers, it is not always because of thier sin, but simply because of sin.
I missunderstood this teaching as well, but thankfully the witness of others helped me to see this.
Scripture also speaks to that God made the world fallible like man, so that when man is made new, the world will be also.
Revelations speaks to this saying, there will be no more suffering or death, the old order will pass away.
Please forgive me if my quotes are not to word, I dont have my bible handy at the moment.
There is also where Jesus healed a blind man , who was blind not because of his sin or his parents, but to glorify God!
These teachings let us know that there are dfferent reasons for affermities, also we can know healing in Jesus.
But as another posted, Paul spoke about how He asked for healing, three times, and God said, my grace is sufficient for you.
Scripture also says that God does what pleases Him.
This tells us that we are not to judge, or decide, this is the will of God.
All, that believe in Jesus will be healed, some now, some in time, some in resurection.
I cannot say I have a full understanding in this, I still look to understanding in Jesus.
But I do know, that Jesus is always where we place our hope in this, wether we see the results or not, believing in His promise.
Scripture says hope, is faith in the unseen.
One of my children has a genetic defect that is the only defect not passed from the parents.
It is at the very moment of life that it occers.
Because of this she suffers depression and many other serious infermities.
I have wondered many times why? It did not come from us, Or by anything she did. But at the moment that life is given.
I have rested this in Jesus, I see everyday, God glorifying Himself in her because she chooses to live, simply because Jesus has asked her to.
She has a heart in Jesus that gives compassion to any that asks, and she shares their sorrows with them.
She does take medications to manage her illnesses.
I am thankfull to God for these , as they give her releif.
I also in faith, hope for her healing.
But everyday,her faith glorifies God.
I guess the question one needs to ask themself, is it us that decides what is affliction, or what is God's glory!
Im with God's Glory!
God bless.
pickles

 

[Owen]

what is Jesus Mission???


Bahai's Mission The central theme of Bah

 

[kujo313]

Depression is an attack of the enemy.

Phil 4:8

8For the rest, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of reverence and is honorable and seemly, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely and lovable, whatever is kind and winsome and gracious, if there is any virtue and excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on and weigh and take account of these things [fix your minds on them].

 

[Red33]

I believe the struggle for many is the same one I had when someone said sickness is the result of sin.
All sickness, all struggles, all that causes and is the difficulties of the world are the result of original sin.
If somone suffers, it is not always because of thier sin, but simply because of sin.
I missunderstood this teaching as well, but thankfully the witness of others helped me to see this.
Scripture also speaks to that God made the world fallible like man, so that when man is made new, the world will be also.
Revelations speaks to this saying, there will be no more suffering or death, the old order will pass away.
Please forgive me if my quotes are not to word, I dont have my bible handy at the moment.
There is also where Jesus healed a blind man , who was blind not because of his sin or his parents, but to glorify God!
These teachings let us know that there are dfferent reasons for affermities, also we can know healing in Jesus.
But as another posted, Paul spoke about how He asked for healing, three times, and God said, my grace is sufficient for you.
Scripture also says that God does what pleases Him.
This tells us that we are not to judge, or decide, this is the will of God.
All, that believe in Jesus will be healed, some now, some in time, some in resurection.
I cannot say I have a full understanding in this, I still look to understanding in Jesus.
But I do know, that Jesus is always where we place our hope in this, wether we see the results or not, believing in His promise.
Scripture says hope, is faith in the unseen.
One of my children has a genetic defect that is the only defect not passed from the parents.
It is at the very moment of life that it occers.
Because of this she suffers depression and many other serious infermities.
I have wondered many times why? It did not come from us, Or by anything she did. But at the moment that life is given.
I have rested this in Jesus, I see everyday, God glorifying Himself in her because she chooses to live, simply because Jesus has asked her to.
She has a heart in Jesus that gives compassion to any that asks, and she shares their sorrows with them.
She does take medications to manage her illnesses.
I am thankfull to God for these , as they give her releif.
I also in faith, hope for her healing.
But everyday,her faith glorifies God.
I guess the question one needs to ask themself, is it us that decides what is affliction, or what is God's glory!
Im with God's Glory!
God bless.
pickles

What a great post, with love, with understanding, with discernment, with wisdom and such a great illustration. It just makes you thankful in your heart for the love, the mercy and the compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ and for His faithfulness to us in all our weaknesses and infirmities.

 

[Stuey]

What do people make of the section where the disciples attempt to drive out a demon and fail? And Jesus responds 'That type can only come out through prayer'?

 

[juliet84]

What do people make of the section where the disciples attempt to drive out a demon and fail? And Jesus responds 'That type can only come out through prayer'?

Interesting that you brought this up Stuey,..I was gonna ask something in relation to casting out demons...All Christians have a Holy Spirit within them,..and demons fear God. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, it is impossible for demons to reside in the Christians. Because light and darkness cant mix together. The Christians can somehow be tempted like Jesus was tempted by the evil spirit. When Jesus resisted, the evil went away. So, each of us Christian has the power or choice to resist or not to those temptations. Am I right or wrong here? So why are we talking about casting out demons from a believer who suffers from depression? I dont get it..

 

[MaggieMye]

There are several characters in the Bible who had bouts of depression including King Solomon and Elijah.Please give scripture references for them being depressed...a word, by the way, that is not used in the Bible. Condemning people with depression makes them worseNO ONE HAS CONDEMNED ANYBODY!! please read the posts for waht they say and do not read false concepts into them!, the best way to deal with it is show them that they are not alone.As IF we should join them in their depression?? Not me! Doing that is unproductive and leads nowhere. Better to SHOW them that you will pray for them and stand on what Scripture says about it, helpiing to find verses to pray that will help them overcome, break off and cast out. Tell them that Jesus understands their pain and that they are beautiful in His eyes and slowly they will recover from it. Telling them that Jesus 'understands their pain and that they are beautiful in His eyes does NOT heal them or set them free!! We have to stop making people with depression feel discriminated against: I think it's the people who consantly complain about those of us that put forth truth as being discriminating or judgmental or condemning that is actually more harmful than truth because it encourages those who suffer to wallow in their suffing, justifying their suffering,rather than taking the teachings and applying it to their lives so as to be free from it all. it is a disease. It is a DIS ease...a person being NOT at ease, not at rest, not content, not living in His joy. It is NOT a natural state of being, it is demonic and spiritual warfare is the KEY. I know its effects and am still dealing with it and I know whatever happens Jesus wouldn't condemn me He loves me with all my inefficiencies. You are right, He will not condemn you. And neither wiil He just snap His fingers to release you from something when you have failed to learn or to apply what has been taught so the whole thing can be a growing experience and in that He gets the glory.

what is Jesus Mission??? Never heard of it

Bahai's Mission The central theme of Bah Bahai is not Christain, it is a cult religion involving a variety of gods, none of them the Creator.

Interesting that you brought this up Stuey,..I was gonna ask something in relation to casting out demons...All Christians have a Holy Spirit within them,..and demons fear God. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, it is impossible for demons to reside in the body of Christians. Holy Spirit resides in our hearts and with our spirit. Demons reside in our soul. Christians cannont be POssessed by demons for they are owned by the Holy Spirit, but Christians can own or keep a demon...usually in ignorance. Because light and darkness cant mix together. Right, but they are often side by side, not mixing, but co-exsisting The Christians can somehow be tempted like Jesus was tempted by the evil spirit. Somehow?? Trust me, it's a given! When Jesus resisted, the evil went away. Jesus used the word of God to quiet and disarm His enemy. So, each of us Christian has the power or choice to resist or not to those temptations.HELLO!?!?!?!?! CHOICE is what we have been talking about...the CHOICE to learn the CHOICE to apply the truths of scripture, the CHOICE to USE the POWER that we have been given to stop the enemy and his tactics!!! Am I right or wrong here? I think you're a bit confused, somewhat speaking both sides (see bold above) So why are we talking about casting out demons from a believer who suffers from depression? I dont get it.. Well, then go back to the beginning of the thread and read all the posts to see that depression is a state of demonic oppression that the ignorant (those lacking knowledge) suffer. It is a demoinc state, whether chemically cause or not, that can be dealt with spiritually through spiritual warfare and knowledge of the dynamics of the spiritual realm's workings.

 

[Free2LoveJesus]

There are several characters in the Bible who had bouts of depression including King Solomon and Elijah.Please give scripture references for them being depressed...a word, by the way, that is not used in the Bible. Condemning people with depression makes them worseNO ONE HAS CONDEMNED ANYBODY!! please read the posts for waht they say and do not read false concepts into them!, the best way to deal with it is show them that they are not alone.As IF we should join them in their depression?? Not me! Doing that is unproductive and leads nowhere. Better to SHOW them that you will pray for them and stand on what Scripture says about it, helpiing to find verses to pray that will help them overcome, break off and cast out. Tell them that Jesus understands their pain and that they are beautiful in His eyes and slowly they will recover from it. Telling them that Jesus 'understands their pain and that they are beautiful in His eyes does NOT heal them or set them free!! We have to stop making people with depression feel discriminated against: I think it's the people who consantly complain about those of us that put forth truth as being discriminating or judgmental or condemning that is actually more harmful than truth because it encourages those who suffer to wallow in their suffing, justifying their suffering,rather than taking the teachings and applying it to their lives so as to be free from it all. it is a disease. It is a DIS ease...a person being NOT at ease, not at rest, not content, not living in His joy. It is NOT a natural state of being, it is demonic and spiritual warfare is the KEY. I know its effects and am still dealing with it and I know whatever happens Jesus wouldn't condemn me He loves me with all my inefficiencies. You are right, He will not condemn you. And neither wiil He just snap His fingers to release you from something when you have failed to learn or to apply what has been taught so the whole thing can be a growing experience and in that He gets the glory.

what is Jesus Mission??? Never heard of it

Bahai's Mission The central theme of Bah Bahai is not Christain, it is a cult religion involving a variety of gods, none of them the Creator.

Interesting that you brought this up Stuey,..I was gonna ask something in relation to casting out demons...All Christians have a Holy Spirit within them,..and demons fear God. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, it is impossible for demons to reside in the body of Christians. Holy Spirit resides in our hearts and with our spirit. Demons reside in our soul. Christians cannont be POssessed by demons for they are owned by the Holy Spirit, but Christians can own or keep a demon...usually in ignorance. Because light and darkness cant mix together. Right, but they are often side by side, not mixing, but co-exsisting The Christians can somehow be tempted like Jesus was tempted by the evil spirit. Somehow?? Trust me, it's a given! When Jesus resisted, the evil went away. Jesus used the word of God to quiet and disarm His enemy. So, each of us Christian has the power or choice to resist or not to those temptations.HELLO!?!?!?!?! CHOICE is what we have been talking about...the CHOICE to learn the CHOICE to apply the truths of scripture, the CHOICE to USE the POWER that we have been given to stop the enemy and his tactics!!! Am I right or wrong here? I think you're a bit confused, somewhat speaking both sides (see bold above) So why are we talking about casting out demons from a believer who suffers from depression? I dont get it.. Well, then go back to the beginning of the thread and read all the posts to see that depression is a state of demonic oppression that the ignorant (those lacking knowledge) suffer. It is a demoinc state, whether chemically cause or not, that can be dealt with spiritually through spiritual warfare and knowledge of the dynamics of the spiritual realm's workings.

Maggie,

I read your posts and I feel so bad for you. I can see and feel all you're anger and pain.

Winning every little argument in life really isn't what its all about. I hope you open your heart to let other people in.

I will pray for you that Jesus comes into your life and allows you to enjoy life and the presence of other Christians without persecuting ones that have differing points of view.

May God Sincerely Bless You,

Dan

 

[1still_waters]

What do people make of the section where the disciples attempt to drive out a demon and fail? And Jesus responds 'That type can only come out through prayer'?

Sounds like some kind of spiritual warfare dynamics.

It's probably like in literal wars. Some battles can only be won with certain kinds of weapons.

A sniper rifle works great for taking out one man in a watch tower. But getting a dictator out of his bunker in the ground calls for a bunker buster bomb.

Prayer is probably the bunker buster bomb it takes to get out this certain kind of demon.

 

[DanuckInUSA]

I would say that prayer is the nuke. Taking it to God to remove the demon will work all the time. It may be excessive in cases that demons can be cast by invoking the name of the Lord but prayer will always work.