Before The Foudation Of The World 2

[Noblemen]

Have you ever noticed how there is some people that go from group to group, from religion to religion, church to church.
They seem to be searching, looking for the proverbial carrot that dangles in front of them.
The good news for you if you are one of them; most that hopp around and never seemed settled in their spiritually, the hunger you have drives you to understand the things of God.
Religion has those stereotyped and have no understanding even what they are looking for.
The scripture comes to mind- seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be open, ask and it shall be given.

Ephesians 1:4, once again addresses the lack of understanding what took place before creation.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Dispensationalists and Pre-electionists, as well as others believe God chose you to be saved before you were born.
When the scripture does not say that, it says if you are going to be reborn (born again) it will happen by God placing you in Christ. That fits the weight of scripture of our "in Christ" message.
The point being; there is a before gospel, and a after gospel that started after creation. The after gospel of correction, getting Adam lined back out to fit into creation.
That is what religion preach's, straighten up or else.
Has nothing to do with the before gospel message. The after gospel is always working on Adam, trying to make him right.
You ever hear the words, "you better get right with God," when you have already been born again and have Christ in you.
Can you see the strange dilemma that places believers in.
And they wonder why you go from place to place, or nowhere at all because of the ignorance to correct Adam.
All the time Adam has been crucified on the cross with Christ.
Adam is what died on the tree, the sin-nature destroyed, never to exist in a believer again.
Believers have a new nature, and to buy into the two nature deal or even worse Adam still exists for a believer is and untruth or what is normally referred to as a lie.
If the cross did not take out sin and all it consists of the pray tell what will.
Religion keeps the cogs turning and well oiled by preaching the gospel of correction, trying to get Adam saved.
If you need confirmation all you have to do is look at the local book store shelves and latest best seller of "how to" books.
Like the gospel does not work or something, that is religion in full bloom.
The issue believers have now is a mind issue not spirit, if you cannot divide the two, then you need to learn to or you will go around and around the mountain of never being able to put together what God had hid in Him before the foundation of the world, Romans 16:25
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

 

[JaumeJ]

From a small child I attended Christian named churches. My family moved around a lot, so I would go to the nearst church as long as it had a cross on tp.

In my teens I realized several of the churches, denominations, I attended preached prejudice from the pulpit with no opposition so I simplhy dropped out.

In my mid twenties I was found by Jesus and the Holy Spirit entered into me.

With the new knowledge of God' Love within and without, I was indignant for the recrucification of my precious Savior by so many denominations, and worse how most denominations joindtly ignore the working of the Holy Skpirit in each who believe.

I still feel this way, but at the same time I do belive there is family in most of the denominations, wondering just why their preachers do not quite hit the mark.

God bless all who are in Jesus, Yeshua, amen.

 

[Hevosmies]

Oy vey.

Adam was crucified on the cross with Jesus?

Where did you get that from?

 

[preacher4truth]

and worse how most denominations joindtly ignore the working of the Holy Skpirit in each who believe.

I still feel this way, but at the same time I do belive there is family in most of the denominations, wondering just why their preachers do not quite hit the mark.

.

Wow. You hold to a lot of broad brushing of churches and quite the disdain for preachers. You need to get out more, there are many good sound preachers out there and churches. If you're out of church it's on you and your attitude, not the church.

 

[preacher4truth]

Dispensationalists and Pre-electionists, as well as others believe God chose you to be saved before you were born.
When the scripture does not say that, it says if you are going to be reborn (born again) it will happen by God placing you in Christ.

You're wrong in the above. Most reject God's electing grace found in Scripture so you have a support group out there in Finneyism.

But on the rest of what you stated I think what you're trying to say is that through the Gospel our old man was crucified with Christ, that we get this through the Gospel. I can pretty much agree with that.

By the way, God did choose us before we were born, Ephesians 1:4. But he saved us in time, Ephesians 2.

 

[John146]

You're wrong in the above. Most reject God's electing grace found in Scripture so you have a support group out there in Finneyism.

But on the rest of what you stated I think what you're trying to say is that through the Gospel our old man was crucified with Christ, that we get this through the Gospel. I can pretty much agree with that.

By the way, God did choose us before we were born, Ephesians 1:4. But he saved us in time, Ephesians 2.

Another one of those, "God chose us to be in him..." That's not what it says. It's just not there. What did God choose before the foundation of the world? The context is the heavenly blessings in Christ. Go back to verse 3 and connect it to verse 4. Salvation is not the issue, but the heavenly blessings in Christ. Before the foundation of the world, God chose that the heavenly blessings would come through Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

Wow. You hold to a lot of broad brushing of churches and quite the disdain for preachers. You need to get out more, there are many good sound preachers out there and churches. If you're out of church it's on you and your attitude, not the church.

You are so good at putting me in my place.


Do you read the Bible?

Do you believe we are at the brink of the tribulation to end what is called time?

Do you believe the Bible?


IF you believe the Bible and if you believe we are on the brink of the Great Tribulation, whyi would you question anyone who loves all who love Jesus Christ, Yeshua, being part of the already scattered in this age?

Have you ever thought to ask what I do or what I have done or even what I have learned from God?

Why should I automatically give homage to someone simply because he has teh title of preacher or wears the cloth

It is always best to be of the Holy Spirit and not of the cloth. Anyone can dress up and call himself a preacher.

What group do you suggest I join? I am perfectly content in fellowshipping with all who name the name, Jesus. Why would you change that? Would you change how God has made me to understand what He has shown me?

I think you take yourself too seriously and not God and not others.

I respect every one with the respect due each……..I do not judge to condemnation but I spread themercy of Jesus Christ so that others will be graced by HIm……..

I do not like to toot my horn because of the possible loss of heavenly reward so do not ever ask me or anyone else to explain what they are to you. You are not my judge, my Judge has already judged me as forgiven God bless you with love for all and understanding before commenting in Jesus Christ I pray this, amen

 

[preacher4truth]

Another one of those, "God chose us to be in him..." That's not what it says. It's just not there. What did God choose before the foundation of the world? The context is the heavenly blessings in Christ. Go back to verse 3 and connect it to verse 4. Salvation is not the issue, but the heavenly blessings in Christ. Before the foundation of the world, God chose that the heavenly blessings would come through Christ.

Lolzzzzz... You and your secondhand Finney "gospel."

Nope, sorry, go back to verse 1 and the entire chapters context, not your isolated context. The entirety of the text is salvation and carries into chapter 2.

You just can't see it, but it's there. The whole context is salvation, that is what the phrase "in Christ" means in the verses that are there.

In fact it is in the first three verses and denotes salvation, that is, that God chose us "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, and that "in Christ" we are blessed. The term "in Christ" is the Gospel and is salvation, what God chose his elect into, that is, "in his Son."

Isn't that wonderful? God did it all, he chose us in Christ! It is sad that those of you who reject this magnificent truth take more comfort in man and "self choosing" God to save yourselves and then try to claim it is 100% God. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt!

But you miss the forest for the trees, because we cannot have those blessings, even if your wrangling the text were true, unless we are "in Christ" wherein God chose us. No, it is all of God and we would have none of that if he didn't choose us "in Christ." He didn't choose us "in blessings", that's distorting the meaning of the Scripture.

Face it, you loath God's electing grace, his choosing those whom he willed to save, his plan before the ages to save those he elected unconditionally, and them only.

Oh, 1 Corinthians 1:25-31?

Same thing.

Because of him you are "in Christ Jesus," 1:30-31. Chosen, chosen, chosen, or elected, elected, elected. You loath those words, and that truth! Same teaching is there, it's the consistent teaching throughout Scripture: God elected us to salvation: Soli Deo Gloria, 1 Corinthians 1:31.

Now, tell us all again how you chose yourself into heaven, and then try to convince us all again how God did it all himself. If it isn't Soli Deo Gloria it is Solus Humanae Gloriae. The latter is in fact what you preach john, not sure when or if you're ever really able to give all glory to God, but it certainly won't be in you errant gospel. Hoping for Ephesians 1:18 for you.

 

[JaumeJ]

One day my heart broken because of man's horrible treatment of man I felt I could no longer bear teh company of mankind. God did not yet "know" me.

That night I locked myself in a romm with the intention of not eating or leaving until I had answers……..quite arrogant, huh?

I shook my fist to the heavens and said, "You are Who You Are." I asked if He was in charge of everything that is and there is a good outcome to all, I would like to know Him and even serve Him be it His will.

I fell into a deep sleep and dreamed. What was given to dream has guided me all of my life, and and the message that came in the dream.

I awoke feeling quite satisfied that I had a response from Whoever it is that runs it all.

That same day while walking across teh Quad at the U of Il. I was thinking, prayer thinking, to that One, and I thought over and over, "Man is terrible, man is terrible etc." Suddenly it hit me, hey, I am a man, and I am part of that awful system, then, just as suddenly, as I realized and said, "You are It," meaning everything important, and Light came into me, and came into my hear.t along with love. I was reborn, the night before God foreknew me, and He drew me to Jesus Christ....

That is being foreknown, God knows us before His holy Spirit eters us and we are born of the Spirit.

 

[preacher4truth]

I really like you JaumeJ because you say you are a believer. It is your penchant to slam churches with your subjective experience and surely you have a supporting cast on here. I'll be relentless to be a polemic against all such who do this just as you (and others on here) are relentless to malign her. That said your broad brush "inquisition" on the body and bride of Christ should cease.

Or, carry on, continue said assault, up to you.

All you are doing in your agenda is debasing her and exalting yourself as if you're better than those you're chastising, as if you are more spiritual than those you're attacking, as if you are above her. All your stories of "the church" and how awful she is have two sides and are purely subjective banter.

 

[Hevosmies]

Another one of those, "God chose us to be in him..." That's not what it says. It's just not there. What did God choose before the foundation of the world? The context is the heavenly blessings in Christ. Go back to verse 3 and connect it to verse 4. Salvation is not the issue, but the heavenly blessings in Christ. Before the foundation of the world, God chose that the heavenly blessings would come through Christ.

How can you believe GOd doesn't know the future? How could He choose Jacob over Esau BEFORE they had done anything good or evil? If He didnt even know what was gonna happen?

How could Jesus predict that Peter would deny Him thrice?

 

[John146]

One day my heart broken because of man's horrible treatment of man I felt I could no longer bear teh company of mankind. God did not yet "know" me.

That night I locked myself in a romm with the intention of not eating or leaving until I had answers……..quite arrogant, huh?

I shook my fist to the heavens and said, "You are Who You Are." I asked if He was in charge of everything that is and there is a good outcome to all, I would like to know Him and even serve Him be it His will.

I fell into a deep sleep and dreamed. What was given to dream has guided me all of my life, and and the message that came in the dream.

I awoke feeling quite satisfied that I had a response from Whoever it is that runs it all.

That same day while walking across teh Quad at the U of Il. I was thinking, prayer thinking, to that One, and I thought over and over, "Man is terrible, man is terrible etc." Suddenly it hit me, hey, I am a man, and I am part of that awful system, then, just as suddenly, as I realized and said, "You are It," meaning everything important, and Light came into me, and came into my hear.t along with love. I was reborn, the night before God foreknew me, and He drew me to Jesus Christ....

That is being foreknown, God knows us before His holy Spirit eters us and we are born of the Spirit.

How can you believe GOd doesn't know the future? How could He choose Jacob over Esau BEFORE they had done anything good or evil? If He didnt even know what was gonna happen?

How could Jesus predict that Peter would deny Him thrice?

God chose Jacob over Esau. God always sets aside the first in order to establish the second. This does not mean God knows every future decision of man when confronted with His word? Can God not limit His knowledge when it comes to dealing with man? Can God declare, your sins and iniquities I remember no more? Can God choose not to remember our sins no more?

There are things God has declared will take place and He will make sure it comes to pass. But everything in between? I just don't see it in Scripture.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Have you ever noticed how there is some people that go from group to group, from religion to religion, church to church.
They seem to be searching, looking for the proverbial carrot that dangles in front of them.
The good news for you if you are one of them; most that hopp around and never seemed settled in their spiritually, the hunger you have drives you to understand the things of God.
Religion has those stereotyped and have no understanding even what they are looking for.
The scripture comes to mind- seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be open, ask and it shall be given.

Ephesians 1:4, once again addresses the lack of understanding what took place before creation.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Dispensationalists and Pre-electionists, as well as others believe God chose you to be saved before you were born.
When the scripture does not say that, it says if you are going to be reborn (born again) it will happen by God placing you in Christ. That fits the weight of scripture of our "in Christ" message.
The point being; there is a before gospel, and a after gospel that started after creation. The after gospel of correction, getting Adam lined back out to fit into creation.
That is what religion preach's, straighten up or else.
Has nothing to do with the before gospel message. The after gospel is always working on Adam, trying to make him right.

You ever hear the words, "you better get right with God," when you have already been born again and have Christ in you.

Can you see the strange dilemma that places believers in.
And they wonder why you go from place to place, or nowhere at all because of the ignorance to correct Adam.
All the time Adam has been crucified on the cross with Christ.

Adam is what died on the tree, the sin-nature destroyed, never to exist in a believer again.
Believers have a new nature, and to buy into the two nature deal or even worse Adam still exists for a believer is and untruth or what is normally referred to as a lie.
If the cross did not take out sin and all it consists of the pray tell what will.

Religion keeps the cogs turning and well oiled by preaching the gospel of correction, trying to get Adam saved.

If you need confirmation all you have to do is look at the local book store shelves and latest best seller of "how to" books.
Like the gospel does not work or something, that is religion in full bloom.
The issue believers have now is a mind issue not spirit, if you cannot divide the two, then you need to learn to or you will go around and around the mountain of never being able to put together what God had hid in Him before the foundation of the world, Romans 16:25
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Some believe that the man of sin can be resurrected If a person doesn't renew their minds to the new creation they have become from what they learned from the sin nature.

 

[maxwel]

"... to buy into the two nature deal...is normally referred to as a lie."

Christians only talk about the "two nature deal" because Paul said it was a thing.

I guess we could just ignore Paul... but ya know, he did write about half the New Testament.


...

 

[JaumeJ]

I really like you JaumeJ because you say you are a believer. It is your penchant to slam churches with your subjective experience and surely you have a supporting cast on here. I'll be relentless to be a polemic against all such who do this just as you (and others on here) are relentless to malign her. That said your broad brush "inquisition" on the body and bride of Christ should cease.

Or, carry on, continue said assault, up to you.

All you are doing in your agenda is debasing her and exalting yourself as if you're better than those you're chastising, as if you are more spiritual than those you're attacking, as if you are above her. All your stories of
"the church" and how awful she is have two sides and are purely subjective banter.

You have labelled the Holy Spirit having entered into me as subjective. You have labelled god speaking to me as the same.

Do you not know that all who knowJesus Christ is Lord and confess Him are informed this by the HOly Skpirit. No man can say Jesus Christ is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. YOu are walking on very dangeruos ground CALLing the knowledge of god subjecteve, because it is from God

 

[MattforJesus]

And there is 2 types of people when they go Church hopping.

One is they are trying to find a Church that is strict in the morals of God, and being holy acting like Christ.

And two they are trying to find a Church that is relaxed in the morals of God, and giving them liberty to enjoy things of the flesh, and world, but it not affect them negatively as far as salvation.

For some people that claim Christ do not like the relaxed attitude of some Churches when it comes to being Christlike.

And some people that claim Christ do not like the strict attitude of some Churches when it comes to being Christlike.

And they are both out there waiting for the ones who love the truth, and the ones who have the behavior that makes them a hypocrite.

But consider this.

Jesus said when He comes back concerning the resurrection that the people that are hypocritical will not be caught up to be with Jesus.

And what does it mean to be a hypocrite, but it means to not act Christlike, enjoying sins, and not allowing the Spirit to lead them, which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, for they want to enjoy the world as the world enjoys the world according to the flesh, which is lust.

Jesus said why do you point out a person's sins, when you have sins of your own, which means they are a hypocrite.

Which why do they point out other people's sins, and get on them for it, but say they cannot abstain from sin, for that is hypocritical if they cannot abstain from sin.

So that means leave the homosexual alone that confesses Jesus as Savior, for they cannot abstain from sin, and stop getting on the case of a man cheating on his wife if he cannot abstain from sin.

And if people post in a wrongful manner, and rude, and mean, and belittle you, leave the person alone for they cannot abstain from sin.

Why do people go against those that post rudely if we cannot abstain from sin.

Their belief system is so weird that there is flaws all over the place, but that comes from the flesh interpreting scriptures.

If we cannot abstain from sin then how are we justified to tell people to repent of their sins, and confess Jesus to take away their sins, if we cannot abstain from sins.

How can you repent of sins if you cannot abstain from sin, for how do you turn away from sins that you cannot cease doing.

They should be honest and say that they want to enjoy the sin, but they know they can abstain from sin, instead of lying about it.

The Bible says a Spirit led life will not sin, for they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the ways of the flesh.

The Bible says give no offense in anything that the ministry be not blamed, but the hypocrisy of many who claim Christ causes many of the world to say they are hypocrites, and not want to embrace Christianity, so their hypocrisy causes many to turn away.

Which I point to this concerning the people that say they cannot abstain from sin, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God.

But if that were true then we would all be hypocrites for nobody could act like Christ, and would give blame to the ministry that we are supposed to display properly to the world.

So how can anybody be caught up to be with Jesus if we are all hypocrites, because we cannot abstain from sin and act Christlike, when the hypocrites will not be caught up to be with Jesus.

So obviously we can abstain from sin, for Jesus would not require for us to act like Him if it were not possible.

Another example of people misinterpreting scriptures by their relaxed lifestyle stance thinking it is alright.

So I suppose they are hopping from Church to Church to find one that is relaxed in morals, and acting Christlike, so they can enjoy sin and have an excuse.

For they have them too.

Well there is a third type too in these last days, those that want to find a Church that attributes nature to God as Scientology, Christian Science, and new age movement, but for sure they do not care about morals as they are about exalting themselves by nature.

 

[Hevosmies]

God chose Jacob over Esau. God always sets aside the first in order to establish the second. This does not mean God knows every future decision of man when confronted with His word? Can God not limit His knowledge when it comes to dealing with man? Can God declare, your sins and iniquities I remember no more? Can God choose not to remember our sins no more?

There are things God has declared will take place and He will make sure it comes to pass. But everything in between? I just don't see it in Scripture.

How could God then choose Jacob over Esau? Why? If He didnt know whats coming?

 

[John146]

How could God then choose Jacob over Esau? Why? If He didnt know whats coming?

What would He had known what's coming? God simply chose to use the younger over the elder. God chose to put aside the first to use the second. That's a pattern throughout Scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The point being; there is a before gospel, and a after gospel that started after creation. The after gospel of correction, getting Adam lined back out to fit into creation. That is what religion preach's, straighten up or else.

How come you are so confused about the basics of Christianity?

Nobody in their right mind is trying to "getting Adam lined back out to fit into creation" That does not even make any sense.

It would appear that you believe that the sin nature inherited from Adam has been ERADICATED (totally removed from Christians). However, if that were true, then Christians would not need to be told to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world. That would be automatic (if what you believed was true).

Bottom line -- you are caught up in some serious spiritual confusion and you need to get together with some sound, mature, Christians who can show you Bible truth.

 

[Hamilton]

I really like you JaumeJ because you say you are a believer. It is your penchant to slam churches with your subjective experience and surely you have a supporting cast on here. I'll be relentless to be a polemic against all such who do this just as you (and others on here) are relentless to malign her. That said your broad brush "inquisition" on the body and bride of Christ should cease.

Or, carry on, continue said assault, up to you.

All you are doing in your agenda is debasing her and exalting yourself as if you're better than those you're chastising, as if you are more spiritual than those you're attacking, as if you are above her. All your stories of "the church" and how awful she is have two sides and are purely subjective banter.

To get the facts rights, and decide based on them is not inquisition, is an undelegable responsibility every believer has.

See a post in a different thread:

#3

Would you rather go to a church that takes serious the commission Jesus gave or would you rather spend time playing church and member making games?