Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I am not denying that obeying the gospel can save (deliver) you here in time, just not eternally, that is by God's grace alone without any action of man.

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?(Romans 6)

None of us reaches sinless perfection, so do not even go there with me my friend. However, none of us who are saved live lascivious lifestyles, either. You are saying God’s people can live like the devil for years and are saved. The Bible says differently my friend.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Okay, let us examine and allow me to exegete that verse...

16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.(Galatians 2)

We see that it was the work of the cross that saves, not by keeping the Law. As Paul wrote later in this same chapter...”I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”(vs 21) Now, again, how do we obtain this righteousness of Jesus Christ my friend? By faith gifted to us via God’s regenerative power. Even you stated that faith was given at this point. So when a man is declared righteous, this happens via faith, which comes from hearing the word of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are defeating yourself with every post you make my friend.

I see that we study from different versions of the bible from your quote of Gal 2:16. Mine says "faith [of] Jesus Christ, not "faith [in] Jesus Christ. When we are born into this world as infants we have been given the ability to learn and our learning and growing in knowledge comes through hearing others speak as we began to mature. The same applies when we are regenerated, as new born babes, we have the ability discern spiritual things and as we hear the gospel preached, precept here and precept there, a little here and a little there, we come to a knowledge of the truth. Babes in Christ grow in faith as they hear the preaching of the gospel. Sorry you were iced out of going to church. My absence is due to a head cold.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I am not denying that obeying the gospel can save (deliver) you here in time, just not eternally, that is by God's grace alone without any action of man.

Okay people, here it is. Here is a post where someone states you can live anyway you want, sleep around with multiple people, curse all day every day, get drunk all the time, take all the drugs you want, and because you are eternally saved, you will gain heaven in the end.

You will lose you time salvation here, but are saved eternally.

Sad part in all of this is this is not supported anywhere in the word of God.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I see that we study from different versions of the bible from your quote of Gal 2:16. Mine says "faith [of] Jesus Christ, not "faith [in] Jesus Christ. When we are born into this world as infants we have been given the ability to learn and our learning and growing in knowledge comes through hearing others speak as we began to mature. The same applies when we are regenerated, as new born babes, we have the ability discern spiritual things and as we hear the gospel preached, precept here and precept there, a little here and a little there, we come to a knowledge of the truth. Babes in Christ grow in faith as they hear the preaching of the gospel. Sorry you were iced out of going to church. My absence is due to a head cold.

They grow in faith, meaning they already have it. As I already stated, when one is regenerated, they are saved, and vice versa. You do not have one without the other.

You stated faith is given in regeneration. It was you who posted it. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the word of Christ. So if someone has faith 1) they are justified(saved) and 2) possess a fruit of the Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So someone can live contrary to the word of God and still gain heaven? Your doctrine allows you to live a sin filled life? Wow!

I think I have explained this before, but I do not mind repeating it. I understand that the doctrine that I believe in is a hard doctrine to understand and I understand the scriptures to say that it was so with the doctrine that Jesus preached. After we are regenerated, we still struggle with our fleshly nature, and at times we yield to the temptations of this world, when we do God pricks our heart and causes us to repent and ask God to forgive us, when he forgives us, he delivers (saves) us from the destruction of that sin. This deliverance is here in time and has nothing to do with our eternal deliverance. Once we are saved eternally, we are always saved eternally.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think I have explained this before, but I do not mind repeating it. I understand that the doctrine that I believe in is a hard doctrine to understand and I understand the scriptures to say that it was so with the doctrine that Jesus preached. After we are regenerated, we still struggle with our fleshly nature, and at times we yield to the temptations of this world, when we do God pricks our heart and causes us to repent and ask God to forgive us, when he forgives us, he delivers (saves) us from the destruction of that sin. This deliverance is here in time and has nothing to do with our eternal deliverance. Once we are saved eternally, we are always saved eternally.

But that flies in the face of Romans 5:20, and 6:1,2, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. I agree we sin, but we don’t live like the devil. David was saved when he slept with Bathsheba. When Nathan confronted him about it he repented of it, and it we never read of David committing adultery again.


From 1 John 3...

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.


Christians sin, and sin daily. However, they do not practice sinning, live in sin. You are saying a child of God can live like the devil for extended periods of time, lose their time salvation, but not their eternal salvation. That is a foreign teaching and is not founded upon any scripture at all my friend.

The one who practices(lives) in sin is of the devil(vs 8).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

They grow in faith, meaning they already have it. As I already stated, when one is regenerated, they are saved, and vice versa. You do not have one without the other.

You stated faith is given in regeneration. It was you who posted it. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the word of Christ. So if someone has faith 1) they are justified(saved) and 2) possess a fruit of the Spirit.

Yes, I agree. When you have been regenerated, you are saved eternally, in actuality of the covenant saving on the cross. Yes I agree that faith is a fruit of the Spirit that we receive in regeneration, and as newly born babes in Christ, our faith grows as we hear and began to come unto a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yes, I agree. When you have been regenerated, you are saved eternally, in actuality of the covenant saving on the cross. Yes I agree that faith is a fruit of the Spirit that we receive in regeneration, and as newly born babes in Christ, our faith grows as we hear and began to come unto a knowledge of the truth.

Now you are crossing yourself my friend. You said the gospel is not necessary to save one eternally, only in time, now you are stating something entirely different.

There are no two salvations my friend. Only one, and it is eternal.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yes, I agree. When you have been regenerated, you are saved eternally, in actuality of the covenant saving on the cross. Yes I agree that faith is a fruit of the Spirit that we receive in regeneration, and as newly born babes in Christ, our faith grows as we hear and began to come unto a knowledge of the truth.

And regeneration comes via the gospel, so now you are contradicting yourself.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

But that flies in the face of Romans 5:20, and 6:1,2, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. I agree we sin, but we don’t live like the devil. David was saved when he slept with Bathsheba. When Nathan confronted him about it he repented of it, and it we never read of David committing adultery again.


From 1 John 3...

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.


Christians sin, and sin daily. However, they do not practice sinning, live in sin. You are saying a child of God can live like the devil for extended periods of time, lose their time salvation, but not their eternal salvation. That is a foreign teaching and is not founded upon any scripture at all my friend.

The one who practices(lives) in sin is of the devil(vs 8).

When a regenerated person sins, some kick against the pricks of God before repenting longer than others. Paul evidently pricked against the pricks of God, by God's remark of "why do you kick against the pricks". I do not know the set length of time before someone repents. I do know that Jesus said in John 6:39 that he would not lose any that he died for, but raise them up at the last day. I do believe that in a covenant relationship, when Jesus died for the elects sins, that God looks upon them as holy and without blame and that he remembers our sins no more that they are as far away from him as the east is from the west. We cannot sin a sin that will keep us from heaven because he died for all of our sins. I believe that once we are regenerated, we are born unto good works, but we slip at times.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Now you are crossing yourself my friend. You said the gospel is not necessary to save one eternally, only in time, now you are stating something entirely different.

There are no two salvations my friend. Only one, and it is eternal.

That is just it. We interpret the scriptures differently. I believe the scriptures to teach that there are, indeed, many deliverance here in time (every time we sin and then repent) And there is one deliverance eternally. My belief of the scriptures (harmonizing against each other) I had, seemingly, contradictions with the salvation scriptures harmonizing with other scriptures for 12 years of intense studying until I gave up on my own intellect.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And regeneration comes via the gospel, so now you are contradicting yourself.

That is where we differ, regeneration does not come because of our obedience to the gospel. We are regenerated and then we began to come unto the knowledge of the truth of the gospel as we are taught through the preached word. I do not see that as a contradiction.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Now you are crossing yourself my friend. You said the gospel is not necessary to save one eternally, only in time, now you are stating something entirely different.

There are no two salvations my friend. Only one, and it is eternal.

What am I stating differently?

 

[preacher4truth]

You must read over my comments without letting them register with you. Take a closer look at my posts #550, 552,563. Then reread your post #556 where you refuse to extend the same favor. Your statement "They speak of a deliverance [ONLY] here on earth" Your post #5, is a false accusation, we speak also of an eternal deliverance into heaven.

You must read over my comments without letting them register with you. Take a closer look at my posts #550, 552,563. Then reread your post #556 where you refuse to extend the same favor. Your statement "They speak of a deliverance [ONLY] here on earth" Your post #5, is a false accusation, we speak also of an eternal deliverance into heaven.

I am sorry you feel that way. You just turned around and accused me of lying again in your above post. I am willing to meet you halfway by indicating that we both need to apologize, but if that is not in your nature, I guess there is nothing I can do about it, but I refuse to slip back in my revengeful attitude. You claim that I shun the scriptures that you give me to disprove the doctrine I believe, but if I have shunned any of them, it has been an oversight, because I have tried to respond to them all with counter acting scriptures. When I ask you to bring to my attention those you say I ignore, you refuse to do so. You have, indeed, misrepresented many of my beliefs and I will let that slide as well. I will still defend the doctrine that I believe in as long as you try to stamp it out. That has been an ongoing effort sense Jesus first started teaching it, but Jesus said himself that there would always be a witness for the truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

You are continually asserting that I was taught by some elders of the Primitive Baptist Church. What are you basing your claims on? Were you an eye witness to that fact? You throw blame at me with ease without knowing the facts and just assume that I am lying. I, in fact, did not set foot within a Primitive Baptist Church, or talk to one of their elders until after 12 years of intense studying and had given up on understanding the scriptures to not contradict each other and that is when it was revealed to me from my past studying. Someone told me that the Primitive Baptist taught the doctrine that I had come to understand and I give God the credit for it. We both may need to apologize. I know that I have come back on you a little strong and I am sure it was out of retaliation, which is a sinful attitude. We are instructed to defend the doctrine with meekness.

I am in agreement to let the scriptures stand in defense of the doctrine without throwing our personal assumptions at each other. Do you think we can do that?

The above are each of the posts you say you apologized in.

That never happened!

You asked me to apologize, you have not.

Come on man, stop being so deceitful.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your statement "They speak of a deliverance [ONLY] here on earth" Your post #5, is a false accusation, we speak also of an eternal deliverance into heaven.

First, don't paraphrase me out of context. OK? Quote the entire thing, and the exact statement, not just a snippet. You're taking what was saying out of context.

Have to say it again, you also do this with Scripture.

I am being honest here, do you see this? Do you have trouble tying things together contextually because it appears you are unable or unwilling to do this. You take what is said then jump to all sorts of false conclusions my dear friend, knee jerk reactions. Let me reiterate I understand your position fully, I see it clearly, I do not misrepresent your beliefs falsely. I am speaking of your gospel of time deliverance. Keep things in their proper context brother, it is dishonest of you not to do so.

Secondly, you are fully aware I've never stated you don't believe in eternal salvation, you're being disingenuous and getting another jab in. Right? I mean you know I believe this already so the above is false brother, correct?

This is the second false accusation of yours in as many days.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The above are each of the posts you say you apologized in.

That never happened!

You asked me to apologize, you have not.

Come on man, stop being so deceitful.

1. I refuse to slip back into my revengeful attitude. 2. I know that I have come back on you a little strong and am sure it was out of retaliation, which is a sinful attitude. We are instructed to defend the gospel with meekness. 3. I am in agreement to let the scriptures stand in defense of the doctrine without throwing our personal assumptions at each other. If you do not accept those as apologies, then that is on you. If you do not feel you owe me an apology, then that is on you too.

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you claiming that believing and preaching a false doctrine is not destructive?

I just said the opposite of the above, Why must you continue to distort what others state? No, your statement is not what I claimed.

The elect were sanctified by Jesus Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross, Gal 2:16.

Of course, yet you have those not under this santifying work possessing eternal life.

Hebrews 12:14 also speaks of sanctification of the elect, its extent, and that without this progressive sanctification it is evidence of not being converted. You have those on the broad road to damnation heading to eternal life. This is not the case.

Do you realize the context of Galatians 2:16 is via the Gospel? That this sanctification is via the Gospel? That is the entire context of Galatians, and that this is to eternal life through the Gospel?

Sanctification comes only through the word of God, John 17:17 not through osmosis and mysticism.

 

[preacher4truth]

1. I refuse to slip back into my revengeful attitude. 2. I know that I have come back on you a little strong and am sure it was out of retaliation, which is a sinful attitude. We are instructed to defend the gospel with meekness. 3. I am in agreement to let the scriptures stand in defense of the doctrine without throwing our personal assumptions at each other. If you do not accept those as apologies, then that is on you. If you do not feel you owe me an apology, then that is on you too.

None of that is an apology, it is only you describing your actions.

I've not misrepresented you, nor have I lied about you. Should I apologize for that?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

First, don't paraphrase me out of context. OK? Quote the entire thing, and the exact statement, not just a snippet. You're taking what was saying out of context.

Have to say it again, you also do this with Scripture.

I am being honest here, do you see this? Do you have trouble tying things together contextually because it appears you are unable or unwilling to do this. You take what is said then jump to all sorts of false conclusions my dear friend, knee jerk reactions. Let me reiterate I understand your position fully, I see it clearly, I do not misrepresent your beliefs falsely. I am speaking of your gospel of time deliverance. Keep things in their proper context brother, it is dishonest of you not to do so.

Secondly, you are fully aware I've never stated you don't believe in eternal salvation, you're being disingenuous and getting another jab in. Right? I mean you know I believe this already so the above is false brother, correct?

This is the second false accusation of yours in as many days.

I do not mind discussing the scriptures in defense of the doctrine, but not with someone who is not civil and is self centered. I suggest you get counseling. If you want to consider this a prideful win for you, then have at it. I am not subjecting myself with any more of your pride and hateful attitude.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

What am I stating differently?

You are all over the map. You say God alone justifies. That is true my friend. You say when one is regenerated they are given faith and repentance. Again, that is true. However, you say it is eternal salvation, but temporal salvation can be forfeited. Nowhere does justification state this as being true. Your theology is a mish-mash of out of context verses.