Why Do Christians Ignore some of Jesus' Teachings?

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Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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You ask extremely well and by your responses, you show that you truly are looking for truth that completes the entire picture. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free". I'll do my best to satisfy what you ask and I don't through truth and G-d's word, then my words are just "rubbish". For everything that is true is revealed by the Word of G-d:

- Jesus in the Gospels speaks to the audience of Jews (not Gentiles) for the most part. In regard to many of the Biblical Torah Commandments, only Jews are obligated to keep and to this day, maintain the Torah. Now before anyone jumps to "oh...so you want to sacrifice animals comment", there are 613 Biblical Mitzvot and there are great details that you will clearly and only see within the Hebrew of the Text ("not one jot (yud) or tittle (stroke/nikkud - vowel point) shall pass from the Torah, UNTIL heaven and earth pass"). So for example, many mitzvot like "tithing", "sanctifying the new moon", "korban offerings/animal sacrifices" or many more, CANNOT be fulfilled because there is no Temple, no High Priest and no Priesthood.

- Now Gentiles, are NOT required or obligated to hold the Torah because the Torah was a covenant a "marriage" given between G-d and the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai. This is why the epistles of Paul (which are primarily geared towards Gentiles and unfortunately very unrighteous Jews "at that time"), argues that the "Judaizers" were wrong in pushing a Brit Milah (circumcision) on Gentiles. Now Gentiles (although not 100% stated), should follow the Noachide Laws (7 Laws G-d gave to the entire world during the time of Adam & Noah and the Laws that are a covenant between G-d and all of humanity). How do we know there are 7? You will find them even without the Oral Torah in the book of Genesis and even better if you know Hebrew and the "tenses" and words it uses at particular times. Further evidence is Acts 15:20-21 where Paul gives 3 of 7 of the Noachide Laws "to start with".

- Now, there was no "church" or Christian organization (as we classify it today) in the time of Jesus or even for 300 years until the time of Constantine and the "Catholic Church" and "Christian Doctrines". What do I mean? The Greek word for a community that is used in the NT is just "Ekklesia" which means community. A community in the time of Jesus was clearly held within a Synagogue ("Synagoga in Greek), where Jews are the "Spiritual Leaders" and they would TEACH the Law of Moshe (The written and oral Torah) because the Torah = Perfect = Life = Answers to the Entire World = Yeshua and anyone who diminishes this perfect word and states that this is not beneficial for ALL of humanity, is either ignorant, not with G-d, or just lost and needs guidance (if humble and open to truth). For example, the Torah can teach us morals, a reason for life, philosophy, creation and much more ("for nothing is new under the sun"). Still, this DOES NOT make a Gentile Obligated to the LAWS in the Torah. I agree 100%. With this in mind, Christians who are Gentiles are not obligated to the laws but both Jesus and Paul make it clear that Jews are the ones in charge with "Spirituality" and Gentiles are obligated to "physical things". Just read the Torah or Tanakh, always when Gentiles were submissive, they were welcome into the camp of Israel, but they did "PHYSICAL WORK", not making various theologies and so forth. (note: this would mean, Gentiles are NOT obligated to hold to Shabbat, but they can certainly enjoy and bask in it as best as they can, for Shabbat is a "taste of heaven" and a statement that G-d made the world).

- Finally, Oral Torah is mandatory for anyone to even remotely understand the "HOW" to complete the commandments. Example, how to "remember or honour the Shabbat"? What constitutes as stealing? (i.e. can we steal time while texting at work or stealing ones time?) How do I build a "sukkah" (booth) during Sukkot?, What part of the sun going down constitutes as the line for a "new day"? Or to put this even further, if Yeshua/Jesus was against the Torah, then why would he practice "Chanukah"/Festival of Lights (John 10:20)? Jews TODAY recite the "Haftarah"/Tanakh passage" on Shabbat and Yeshua did the same thing when reciting Isaiah. Where did Jesus and Jews know to recite "Hallel" and way "Lulav's/Palm Branches" during Sukkot? Why did Yeshua know that Circumcision is greater and permitted on Shabbat? (John 7)? You won't find ONE answer to these in the written Torah alone. These are just clues and questions to get you to understand the power of the Oral Torah andddd why Yeshua said, "Listen to those who sit in the seat of Moshe" and not "gentile leaders"...

I truly pray I made this understandable, unbiased (by providing truth and passages) and more importantly, I ASK YOU to challenge these points if you feel they are wrong, but challenge it only with the Word of G-d and not opinions or "feelings". Through this, you will elevate your understanding. For in Judaism, Judaism ENCOURAGES challenging even the highest of "authorities" in order to get to a deeper level of "truth" or understanding, because truth in relativity to humans is "finite" but REAL truth is "infinite" because G-d is INFINITE!!! :) I hope that makes sense!

G-d Bless Your Soul!
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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To: Mountaindude 28

God bless you, bro! I am really looking for truth. For 30 years I believed that all of Jesus' teachings were for all of us, but some two years ago I came across a video where a pastor talked about the differences between the teachings of Jesus before the cross and His teachings after the cross (through his spokesman Paul).

Here is the video that prompted me to start reviewing my beliefs:

 

YDo

Active member
Dec 9, 2018
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So, you obey ALL of Jesus commandments, right? Have you already given away your property to charity and do you obey all 613 mitzvot of Judaism?
Maybe you should read the New Testament first.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
Are you keeping the new moon?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Because there was a long transition period between the Old and the New Covenant.
This is a point on which we agree.
Although I see it a little differently than perhaps you do.
I see a gradual unraveling of the law beginning with John the Baptist and extending to the Apostle Paul on the Road to Damascus.
There were several events along the way that added to this transition. Here's where I see it beginning.

Matthew 11:13
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

Luke 16:16
“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time,
the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Are you keeping the new moon?
If someone keeps Gods Holy Convocations,
to keep the new moon is to use Gods calendar.

What calendar do you follow ? but the popes pagan calendar.

What calendar do you think Christ used?
And why was it changed ?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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If someone keeps Gods Holy Convocations,
to keep the new moon is to use Gods calendar.

What calendar do you follow ? but the popes pagan calendar.

What calendar do you think Christ used?
And why was it changed ?
Are you calling Catholic believers pagans? Or just their leader?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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The verse says some time in the future [ all flesh] will keep it,
the way that He commanded in the old testament.
I don't think that is what it says at all.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Are you calling Catholic believers pagans? Or just their leader?
Daniel 7:24-25. Here God is talking about the “little horn,” the Catholic Church.

“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the
most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.”

Lets start with The Catholic Calendar

One dramatic measure of the Catholic religion’s global influence is its control over the definition
and measurement of time itself. Even today, though the presence of Catholicism doesn’t seem as
ubiquitous as it once was, we continue to live by a calendar largely created by the popes of old:

the Gregorian calendar—named after Pope Gregory xiii. That calendar revolves around fixing
the date of Easter in line with the spring equinox, ensuring that the Catholic’s pagan festivals
fall at the right time relative to Earth’s revolution around the sun.

This calendar is based on the Julian calendar, the Roman calendar established in 45 b.c. by Julius
Caesar. He chose the names and lengths of the months that we still use today (except July and
August, which were renamed after Julius and Augustus). But the Julian calendar was later altered
by the Vatican. God actually prophesied that the Catholic Church would change time itself!

What is the Catholic Church’s motive for changing the way mankind measures time?
It is an attempt to destroy—by removing from mankind’s memory—the knowledge
about God’s true holy days and the Sabbath.


the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/catholic_church_idolatry.html
they deleted the second Commandment and changed God's Sabbath to Sunday
and split the tenth Commandment into two to get back to Ten Commandments
-

The following from the Catholic Encyclopaedia Vol. 4, p. 153 also confirms the deletion
of the second Commandment and the change of the fourth. “The church, after changing
the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made
the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.”

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In 1562 the Archbishop declared that tradition now stood above scripture.

“The authority of the Church is illustrated most clearly by the scriptures, for on one hand
she recommends them, declares them to be divine, and offers them to us to be read, and
on the other hand, the legal precepts in the scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by
virtue of the same authority.

The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord's day.

-
These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ's teaching
(for He says that He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have
been changed by the authority of the Church.” — Gaspare de Posso Archbishop
of Reggio, Council of Trent.

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Ancient Rome’s pagan holidays have been chained on this current world.
These include certain annual holidays—Christmas, New Year’s, Easter,
as well as many more, every one a pagan day—every one used to stimulate
the sale of merchandise in the commercial markets. Any earnest seeker after
truth learns that these days are all of heathen origin and pagan significance.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Right.
However, you are imposing something on the text that is not there.
That verse mentions new moons[Gods calendar]
The Sabbath day, and mentions [all flesh] will worship Him.

Another future verse says [All nations] will be forced to [keep the feast of tabernacles]
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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That verse mentions new moons[Gods calendar]
The Sabbath day, and mentions [all flesh] will worship Him.

Another future verse says [All nations] will be forced to [keep the feast of tabernacles]
Again, you are imposing something on the text that is not there.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Again, you are imposing something on the text that is not there.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations
that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Seems pretty straight forward to me.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations
that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Could you provide references to your scriptures?
Hard to respond otherwise.

Since when were all the nations invited to go up "to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles"?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Could you provide references to your scriptures?
Hard to respond otherwise.

Since when were all the nations invited to go up "to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles"?
What never read the old test., or you could just do a search for it.
Not invited, but forced observance, with punishments attached.

Zechariah 14:19

Never has this happened in the past,
this will be in effect in the future mill.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
Shall we leave it at that, or would you like to explore it further?
Here's a question: Where/when did the Sabbath originate?
I'm not sure but it was probably the 7th day of creation when God rested from His work. Could be wrong on that.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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I'm not sure but it was probably the 7th day of creation when God rested from His work. Could be wrong on that.
The Sabbath points back to that.
But it was actually instituted in Exodus chapter sixteen with the manna collection.
This is the first appearance of the word Sabbath in the Bible.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Creation week

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.