Seventh-day Adventists
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who are you going to offend? You either do or you do not. One of your buddies just posted that you are saved by Grace alone not of works, lest you have something to boast.
If this is true, you can only answer one way.. Any other way woudl contradict your belief system according to him.. Is that why your really afraid to say?
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Some people in my church believe salvation by grace and not by work, mean you can murder, rob the bank or what ever, still go to heaven, you may lost your reward but not salvation.
They believe in heaven there is level.
Higher level for people that believe in Jesus and do a good work, lower level for people that believe in Jesus but not bear good fruit. Not repent from robing the bank, murder or what ever sin.
Basically these people do not believe salvation not make people repent from their sin.
I do believe salvation happen when you invite Jesus in to your heart. And when Jesus in your heart it will change you. Not perfect instantly, depend on how many percent of the room in your heart you give to Jesus
The more room you give to Jesus the more you like Him.
Jesus in our heart make us like Him, in the sense of how we love other, not murder or cheat other.
They believe in heaven there is level.
Higher level for people that believe in Jesus and do a good work, lower level for people that believe in Jesus but not bear good fruit. Not repent from robing the bank, murder or what ever sin.
Basically these people do not believe salvation not make people repent from their sin.
I do believe salvation happen when you invite Jesus in to your heart. And when Jesus in your heart it will change you. Not perfect instantly, depend on how many percent of the room in your heart you give to Jesus
The more room you give to Jesus the more you like Him.
Jesus in our heart make us like Him, in the sense of how we love other, not murder or cheat other.
I'll translate.
The answer is YES.
All true SDAs who are consistent and actually care what their group teaches believe that if you dont keep the sabbath, it is EVIDENCE you are not saved, Because you live in habitual sin by not keeping it. They teach in the future sunday worship will be instituted as a mark of the beast. Plenty of SDA websites floating around pushing this agenda.
This would be a good time for me to point out that the early church in the book of Acts broke bread and gathered on the FIRST DAY of the week, a.k.a the Lord's day when Jesus resurrected, so were they too in danger of receiving the mark of the beast?
RIDICILOUS
There is a reason they arent considered part of "orthodoxy" and under the Christian banner often times. Much like the JWs and mormons.
The answer is YES.
All true SDAs who are consistent and actually care what their group teaches believe that if you dont keep the sabbath, it is EVIDENCE you are not saved, Because you live in habitual sin by not keeping it. They teach in the future sunday worship will be instituted as a mark of the beast. Plenty of SDA websites floating around pushing this agenda.
This would be a good time for me to point out that the early church in the book of Acts broke bread and gathered on the FIRST DAY of the week, a.k.a the Lord's day when Jesus resurrected, so were they too in danger of receiving the mark of the beast?
RIDICILOUS
There is a reason they arent considered part of "orthodoxy" and under the Christian banner often times. Much like the JWs and mormons.
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Thank brother.
When the Bible say that god punish the city of sodom, it mean god punish the people not the city in the sense of a place, building the street etc. street can not commit fornication.
Yes the fire is not in that city anymore, but the people in that city will go to hell forever.
Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
When the Bible say that god punish the city of sodom, it mean god punish the people not the city in the sense of a place, building the street etc. street can not commit fornication.
Yes the fire is not in that city anymore, but the people in that city will go to hell forever.
Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Take a look at mailmandan's post here, refuting SDA theology: Please do so sir:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/seventh-day-adventists.181765/page-11#post-3807893
I will post it here, I hope brother Dan does not mind. THIS IS NOT MY WRITING, he wrote this:
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath(Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The old covenant was a conditional agreement that God made with the Israelites. The old covenant was in effect during the dispensation of law. We are not under the law, but under grace.
The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - as Matthew 5:33,34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/seventh-day-adventists.181765/page-11#post-3807893
I will post it here, I hope brother Dan does not mind. THIS IS NOT MY WRITING, he wrote this:
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Even when SDA's set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.
If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath(Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).
These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).
If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it?
If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.
Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the Old Covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the old covenant to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The old covenant was a conditional agreement that God made with the Israelites. The old covenant was in effect during the dispensation of law. We are not under the law, but under grace.
The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated in the New Testament, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - as Matthew 5:33,34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).
The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.
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