Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,341
#80,341
GodsGrace101 said:
Get a load of this...:

https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/161-chapter-26-1jwos.html

Everyone here should read it.
Scholars know a lot more than we do...

Believe means to obey....
Unbelief means disobedience.
Click to expand...
So this means one who has true faith WILL OBEY

Those who do not believe WILL NOT OBEY

Thanks You just proved out point.

(PS, Israel obeyed the law. Just not perfectly. Thats why although even jesus claimed their righteousness was very high, so high they were considered the standard, that no one could reach( yet they died in unbelief. One can obey and NOT HAVE FAITH

But what is true, is one can NOT have faith, and NOT Obey.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#80,342
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#80,342
I believe the issue is "specifics".

Meaning: People are black and white. We dont see shades of grey often times, such is the case with obedience too. Either you are sinlessly perfect and dont need Jesus, or you are the devil in the flesh and sin every moment of every day.

I believe the biblical position is that you are justified when you believe the Gospel. THEN the sanctification occurs, and you are going to have a life characterized by OBEDIENCE rather than DISOBEDIENCE.
Notice I didnt say: SINLESS PERFECTION.

I believe in the "Perseverence of the saints". I greatly love that doctrine.
Here is more information on it for those interested or who havent heard of it: https://www.gotquestions.org/perseverance-saints.html
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,343
#80,343
dcontroversal said:
Why is it so hard to understand that James is making a comparison between a mere belief in God and genuine faith while making it very clear that the audience is MEN and not GOD......JAMES DOES NOT TEACH a works based SALVATION.....AND TO THIS VERY DAY THE SAME AUDIENCE he addressed "JEWS" BELIEVE IN GOD, but do not possess SAVING FAITH.....!!!
Click to expand...
Amen,, Either James contradicts paul Or james is saying somethig which most people take out of context. And the bible is not contradictory

I take the second.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#80,344
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#80,344
GodsGrace101 take a look at what eternally-gratefull posted here: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-3811485

That convinces me to avoid using "MUST" and using "WILL" instead. Great post, should be highlighted.
Again; sorry for using it guys. You live and you learn. Thanks again.

The EDIT time of my reply to that post has expired and I still wanted to say this:
I realize now the words we use are IMPORTANT because of the fact that there are a TON of CULTS in this world preaching works salvation, and we have to tip-toe around works salvation and license to sin, take the middle-road and avoid both ditches!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,345
#80,345
Hevosmies said:
I believe the issue is "specifics".

Meaning: People are black and white. We dont see shades of grey often times, such is the case with obedience too. Either you are sinlessly perfect and dont need Jesus, or you are the devil in the flesh and sin every moment of every day.

I believe the biblical position is that you are justified when you believe the Gospel. THEN the sanctification occurs, and you are going to have a life characterized by OBEDIENCE rather than DISOBEDIENCE.
Notice I didnt say: SINLESS PERFECTION.

I believe in the "Perseverence of the saints". I greatly love that doctrine.
Here is more information on it for those interested or who havent heard of it: https://www.gotquestions.org/perseverance-saints.html
Click to expand...
I believe in Gods promise

I do not believe in perseverance of the saints, the term itself suggest that Gods children will persevere and because of this perseverance will have completed their salvation.

I believe in eternal life. God said whoever believes in him

1. Will not be put to shame
2. Will not die
3. Will not perish
4. Will live forever
5. Will be completed
6. Will be risen (vs delivered)
7. Has eternal life
8. Is given the spirit as a seal
9. Is justified completely
10, Is perfected, while undergoing sanctification

I can go on and on and on. It is not the people persevering, it is God keeping his promise.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,346
#80,346
Hevosmies said:
GodsGrace101 take a look at what eternally-gratefull posted here: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-3811485

That convinces me to avoid using "MUST" and using "WILL" instead. Great post, should be highlighted.
Again; sorry for using it guys. You live and you learn. Thanks again.

The EDIT time of my reply to that post has expired and I still wanted to say this:
I realize now the words we use are IMPORTANT because of the fact that there are a TON of CULTS in this world preaching works salvation, and we have to tip-toe around works salvation and license to sin, take the middle-road and avoid both ditches!
Click to expand...
Amen, we must remember, just one word can change the meaning of a thought or an idea completely.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#80,347
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#80,347
eternally-gratefull said:
I believe in Gods promise

I do not believe in perseverance of the saints, the term itself suggest that Gods children will persevere and because of this perseverance will have completed their salvation.
Click to expand...
I believe in eternal life and God keeping His promise too!

Are you sure you dont believe in perseverence of the saints? Did you read the link I posted about it? I believe its THOROUGHLY biblical!

Remember its not us in the FLESH persevering. Its "God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure"
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,348
#80,348
Hevosmies said:
I believe in eternal life and God keeping His promise too!

Are you sure you dont believe in perseverence of the saints? Did you read the link I posted about it? I believe its THOROUGHLY biblical!

Remember its not us in the FLESH persevering. Its "God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure"
Click to expand...
As I said in my last post. I think the word is what makes it disturbing.. Thats why I I would not teach that term to anyone, because it could be asily be confused as a person persevering of thier own power.

The doctrine may be sound, but the wording is worrysome.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,349
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,349
Hevosmies said:
GodsGrace101 take a look at what eternally-gratefull posted here: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-3811485

That convinces me to avoid using "MUST" and using "WILL" instead. Great post, should be highlighted.
Again; sorry for using it guys. You live and you learn. Thanks again.

The EDIT time of my reply to that post has expired and I still wanted to say this:
I realize now the words we use are IMPORTANT because of the fact that there are a TON of CULTS in this world preaching works salvation, and we have to tip-toe around works salvation and license to sin, take the middle-road and avoid both ditches!
Click to expand...


I personally think the EDIT TIME LIMIT, is dis·crim·i·na·to·ry to us SENIOR CITIZENS.

But my GUESS is they will NOT realize it until they actually reach our age.

I will turn 70 at my birthday in February.

My short term memory has already gone bye, bye.

My spelling has already gone downhill.

My attentions span, is much slower that before.

My length of time for each Post has GREATLY INCREASED.

My Proof Reading is such that I read what I think I typed, only to discover during the 5 minute Scramble numerous typos.

AND on top of it all, I have discovered that my Brain does not do SCRAMBLE any more.



For those who think I am being Funny,
REMEMBER YOUR DAY IS COMING TOO!

1546270732340.jpeg
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#80,350
Jan 18, 2011
12,327
6,696
113
#80,350
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen,, Either James contradicts paul Or james is saying somethig which most people take out of context. And the bible is not contradictory

I take the second.
Click to expand...
that is the thing.

they have to make the Bible contradict. it is the only way to make their junk theology make sense.

as I have to needs to studyman many times, their tactics do not work on people who know the Bible.

and that is also why they do want to have an actual discussion, but just keep repeating the same talking points.

in a actual discussion , their stuff would not last 3 minutes.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80,351
#80,351
gb9 said:
that is the thing.

they have to make the Bible contradict. it is the only way to make their junk theology make sense.

as I have to needs to studyman many times, their tactics do not work on people who know the Bible.

and that is also why they do want to have an actual discussion, but just keep repeating the same talking points.

in a actual discussion , their stuff would not last 3 minutes.
Click to expand...
True

Studyman had beliefs most people have never heard of before. So he was not going to convince to many people if any at all. He was no issue (Is he even around anymore?
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#80,352
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#80,352
VCO said:
I personally think the EDIT TIME LIMIT, is dis·crim·i·na·to·ry to us SENIOR CITIZENS.

But my GUESS is they will NOT realize it until they actually reach our age.

I will turn 70 at my birthday in February.

My short term memory has already gone bye, bye.

My spelling has already gone downhill.

My attentions span, is much slower that before.

My length of time for each Post has GREATLY INCREASED.

My Proof Reading is such that I read what I think I typed, only to discover during the 5 minute Scramble numerous typos.

AND on top of it all, I have discovered that my Brain does not do SCRAMBLE any more.



For those who think I am being Funny,
REMEMBER YOUR DAY IS COMING TOO!

View attachment 192552
Click to expand...
I am getting higher in numbers too and will be turning 64 on Jan 9. I'm not as good as I once was, but I am good once as I ever was. Yes, the struggle is real.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#80,353
Apr 7, 2014
25,482
13,421
113
58
#80,353
eternally-gratefull said:
True

Studyman had beliefs most people have never heard of before. So he was not going to convince to many people if any at all. He was no issue (Is he even around anymore?
Click to expand...
His beliefs are certainly way out there! o_O Speaking of Studyman, I have not seen any new posts from him lately. hmm.. :unsure:
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,354
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,354
eternally-gratefull said:
True

Studyman had beliefs most people have never heard of before. So he was not going to convince to many people if any at all. He was no issue (Is he even around anymore?
Click to expand...

And because a LOT of US, have already put him on our Permanent IGNORE LIST.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,355
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,355
eternally-gratefull said:
I believe in Gods promise

I do not believe in perseverance of the saints, the term itself suggest that Gods children will persevere and because of this perseverance will have completed their salvation.

I believe in eternal life. God said whoever believes in him

1. Will not be put to shame
2. Will not die
3. Will not perish
4. Will live forever
5. Will be completed
6. Will be risen (vs delivered)
7. Has eternal life
8. Is given the spirit as a seal
9. Is justified completely
10, Is perfected, while undergoing sanctification

I can go on and on and on. It is not the people persevering, it is God keeping his promise.
Click to expand...


And for those who doubt that HE IS PERSONALLY PROTECTING US:

John 17:12 (HCSB)
12 While I was with them, I was protecting them by Your name that You have given Me. I guarded them and not one of them is lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture may be fulfilled.

1 John 5:18 (GWT)
18 We know that those who have been born from God don't go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one can't harm them.

1 Peter 1:5 (NJB)
5 who are being kept safe by God's power through faith until the salvation which has been prepared is revealed at the final point of time.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,356
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,356
tourist said:
I am getting higher in numbers too and will be turning 64 on Jan 9. I'm not as good as I once was, but I am good once as I ever was. Yes, the struggle is real.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the DOWNHILL SLIDE.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#80,357
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#80,357
VCO said:
Welcome to the DOWNHILL SLIDE.
Click to expand...
My slide starting in my late 40's. I think that I had a mid-life crisis of some sort. I used to think that the best years were behind me but now I believe that the best may yet to come.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,358
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,358
GodsGrace101 said:
part 2

B1. Belief, Believe, Believers [Noun] pistis "faith," is translated "belief" in Rom 10:17; 2 Thess 2:13.Its chief significance is a conviction respecting God and His Word and the believer's relationship to Him. See ASSURANCE, FAITH, FIDELITY.
. . . [/QUOTE]

VCO said:
Do you KNOW what to BELIEVE IN CHRIST, means to the true HEBREW believer?
Click to expand...


HOW COME YOU DO NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ? Don't you know that "I DO NOT KNOW.", is an answer, and it shows a willingness to LEARN. No way is that answer, any shame on your part. NOTICE at the beginning of your POST you said it is Chief Significance is a CONVICTION, respecting GOD and His WORD, and the believer's relationship to Him.

That is part of the Hebrew answer TOO, however, they Carry it a STEP FURTHER TOO. They BELIEVE, before you can even SAY YOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST, you must WILLINGLY put your WHOLE TRUST IN HIM FOR SALVATION ONLY, giving HIM Complete WILLING Control over your WHOLE LIFE. AND, Anything LESS is Lying about KNOWING HIM INTIMATELY.


Another Question you have been dodging is:


What does born from above really mean to YOU? Or if you Prefer, what does being born again really mean to YOU?


Now I do not want a TEXT BOOK ANSWER, I want you to explain it in your own words, or give a "I do not Know", answer.

REMEMBER their is no shame in saying "I DO NOT KNOW". This only SHAME in willfully remaining ignorant.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#80,359
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#80,359
tourist said:
My slide starting in my late 40's. I think that I had a mid-life crisis of some sort. I used to think that the best years were behind me but now I believe that the best may yet to come.
Click to expand...
Me TOO, but After my death or The Rapture which ever comes FIRST.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#80,360
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
#80,360
VCO said:
Me TOO, but After my death or The Rapture which ever comes FIRST.
Click to expand...
Same here. I am looking forward to the great things to come. It's tough down here and it's a jungle out there. Wears you out and drains you eventually.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.