Struggling with 'Christian culture'

[Adam4Eve]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

From my perspective, if I wanted I could look for things to pick apart in any church I've ever been to. Yes, there are going to b clicks wherever you go from childhood on up. So I have to balance if I'm getting more good food from the teaching and fellowship or not. Some churches just appeal to me more than others, ie I'm a 'holy-roller' type vs a subdued type of worshipper. Happy New Year to you and God bless.

 

[Demi777]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

You made som very good points in my opinion.
Its also a bit of a cultural thing too. I find most of the things u stated more in the US than in germany (besides american churches)
There are a lot of extremes out there in churches that repeat themselves like:
-If u have enough faith ull get healed OR God doesnt heal anymore
- Speakin in tongues died out OR Without it u cant be saved
etc. theres barely churches that have a balanced faith. But I guess thats hard for all people as we all have something that we find more important than the other.
Ive been put unter pressure but Ive put my foot down.

Ive just decided to study the word with the history and as many backgrounds as possible and distace myself from things manmade and letting the holy Spirit show me things.
THAT is when I finally started to come to peace. It came with a lot of resistance but Ill rather have Christians runnin after me with Torches than Jesus rebuking me.
Best is to study the word, even with multiple opinions at times and seek God over church and people. He will then take care of you with the people you need to grow and learn.

People in the church are usually torn between marry now or never I find. *shrugs
God bless you

 

[Miri]

Let me see. Tithing is an Old Testament principle. If your church wants to
retain tithing they should also ask people to tithe all their food and herbs.
They tithed everything not just money in the Old Testament.

On the question of giving it is important, without this churches could not
function. A tithe was set as an example in the Old Testament but God also
praised the widow for giving 100% of what she had. So the actual amount
should not be taken literal. It’s more a question of how much of God’s money do
you keep back for yourself rather than how much of your money do you give
to God.

In my church what you give is between you and God. We also run a Christians
against poverty centre which helps people manage their money and get out of
debt. The first thing they say on this course is get out of debt first and learn
how to manage your money. It’s no good giving if you are left with nothing to
live on.

On the other hand God loves a cheerful giver. So giving really is a matter of the
the heart, it should not be the church’s business how much you give.


Regarding singles doing lots in the church, this is fairly typical because
married couples with children don’t have the time! Maybe you are
seeing more into this than is necessary.

I go to a Pentecostal church, it believes in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but
no one has to speak in tongues and it’s up to each to be led as they feel.
If you want to sing your heart out in the service you can, if you want to stay
quiet you can. Again it’s a non issue unless your church treats you as a second
class citizen for not speaking in tongues. Then it is a problem.

 

[Dino246]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

Hello and Welcome! Kudos for having the courage to question things that don't seem right.

With regard to singles becoming couples (etc.), most Christian singles desire to "pair-bond" which, if they desire sexual intimacy, means marriage. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, or with moving to marriage more quickly than in the secular culture. In fact, one should expect that single people with a normal sex drive and a moral commitment to celibacy outside of marriage would seek marriage sooner than those without the moral restraint. There just shouldn't be pressure on any single to get married, and no shame on any single who chooses to remain single for any period of time. Date, or not; marry, or not, as you decide for yourself.

With regard to speaking in tongues and related manifestations, if they are treated as indicators of your level of faith, find a different congregation. I believe in present-day operation of these gifts, but I don't have any patience for them being abused in this way. They are gifts intended for edification, not for division or manipulation.

With regard to tithing, feel free to ignore the manipulation. If people question you personally about it, tell them that it's none of their business. If they persist, ask them to show in Scripture where Christians are required to tithe. It isn't there... so they will have no answer. You have read the Scripture correctly: Malachi was written to those under the Mosaic covenant. Christians are under the covenant in Christ's blood, of which tithing is not a component. There are clear directions for giving in the New Testament: privately, as you decide in your heart, to meet needs and support ministry efforts, as God leads you, according to your resources, regularly, and occasionally, sacrificially.

 

[tourist]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

If you are looking for a wife perhaps you may find one outside of the church that you attend as the choices there seem to be limited. You may also consider finding a new church home as you seem to be uncomfortable in the one that you have attended your entire life.

The Holy Spirit is the one that gives each one unique gifts that suit the purpose of how they are to be used by that person. The gifts themselves are not indicative of a certain level of faith. From my understanding of scripture, I don't believe that tithing was ever mandatory except perhaps for Israel as a whole during a certain period in their history as a nation. I do believe it is taught in scripture to be a faithful servant of whatever God has given you and that includes sharing with those in need even though that may require a sacrifice or an inconvenience.

I'm not a bible scholar either but that does not mean that I am incapable of understanding scripture, particularly as it pertains to my doing the work that my Heavenly Father has prepared for me to accomplish in His name beforehand. The same is true for you. There are a few of what I consider bible scholars on this site but also quite a few who think that they are and are not hesitant to let you know that you are wrong in your interpretation whatever it may be.

Glad to have you join our community and looking forward to your posts. Welcome to CC.

 

[tourist]

From my perspective, if I wanted I could look for things to pick apart in any church I've ever been to. Yes, there are going to b clicks wherever you go from childhood on up. So I have to balance if I'm getting more good food from the teaching and fellowship or not. Some churches just appeal to me more than others, ie I'm a 'holy-roller' type vs a subdued type of worshipper. Happy New Year to you and God bless.

You are correct about the cliques, no matter the setting, there will always be cliques. Good food from the teaching is most important but fellowship is important also rather than being alone and isolated from the outside world.

Regarding good food, I was born and raised and Catholic and always enjoyed the coffee and donut fellowship afterwards in the church hall. Enjoyed the occasional Friday Night fish fry also. Yes, I was down with the Sunday night bingo too as I have won much more than I have I lossed.

 

[Hevosmies]

I believe Christians today dont get married QUICK enough. Hows that for cultural norms? Me personally if I was attending one of those single gatherings you mentioned, I would see who I get along with, ask God about it, put a ring on it and lets go. Not a believer in dating at all. You cant know a person until you are married, thats when the truth comes out. IF both are right with the Lord, its a guaranteed success. I've seen it happen MANY times: All the marriages where both are COMMMITED to God the marriages turn out a SUCCESS, the ones where both or one is already backslid, ends up in DISASTER.


I think its good that the single people are gathering together to find someone. (That is, IF God wills marriage in their life, not all are destined for that, you know)

Your spidey sense is correct, "faith levels" and all that junk is just that, junk!
I also hang around pentecostal churches and know what you mean, but with all that said, these are GREAT PEOPLE most of them. Their hearts are right with God and many are living obedient holy lives.

I have had some opportunities to get married but I have not yet. I believe I still need some "reforming", I come from the mean streets and I want to get my finances and mental side in order before I start providing for a family. its a big responsibility which the man should take very seriously.

 

[Lanolin]

Does your church have a lot of young people in it, if it has more young people thy are more likely to pair off which isnt true maybe outisde in the world where its harder to find a mate especially a believing mate, and maybe people marry sooner because they are just ready. And maybe their parents are more supportive and see it as a good thing, rather than outside in the world where marriage is often seen as a way if escaping ones parents. Because any children born will have both sets of godly Grandparents which is commonly devalued in outside society to help raise the children. Oh and probably their parents would be praying for them to find a mate, or even actively matchmaking them. Not true of unbelieving parents!

I had read a lot of christian dating books just out of curiosity to find out well how does one go about finding a mate but was quite disappointed to find that almost in every case the author found their mate because they went to a bible college and married straight after graduating.

Of course I never went to a bible college as wasnt christian back then so its not likely I would go there again after spending most of my education learning other things. I do find it a bit weird because the message of those books is go to a christian bible college and marry someone whos studying to be a minister. As they would be looking for someone too. And also many people live away from home during college years and arent working full time yet so they actually have the time to date or whatever.

Thats just my view on it. I think if God has called you, just keep on doing what He says and not worry about marrying or not marrying. So many married people just want to be single and so many single people want to be married I get tired of people complaining about either being single or their spouses just be as God wants you to be.

 

[Budman]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

A few verses come to mind in regard to the "levels" thing.

"God does not show favoritism. " (Romans 2:11)

"For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. " (Deuteronomy 10:17)

"Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism." (Acts 10:34)

"My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?" (James 2:1-4)

"The rich and the poor meet together; the Lord is the maker of them all. " (Proverbs 22:2)

"In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality." (1 Timothy 5: 21)

 

[Adam4Eve]

I've been put under pressure but I've put my foot down.

It came with a lot of resistance but I'll rather have Christians running after me with Torches than Jesus rebuking me.

Hey, thanks for your post.

Hmm, what kind of pressure? Why did you have to put your foot down?

What do you mean resistance?

 

[Demi777]

Hey, thanks for your post.

Hmm, what kind of pressure? Why did you have to put your foot down?

What do you mean resistance?

As soon as ppl knew I have a bf I had people pushing me
1. Marry him traditionally and do it now asap
or
2. Leave him!

I put my foot down and reminded them both that its between me and God and not them. Free will is a real thing.
With that Ive had a lot of resistance of people pushing me in either direction.
The only good thing was that some took it up with God later and came back respecting my decision

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Hi Adam and Welcome,
1. The first thing you should note is that what happens among Christians cannot, and should not, be compared to what happens outside in the world. The world has its own standards. So your issue is really unrealistic and unnecessary.

2. You seem to be objecting to the fact that the young people in your church are clustering together and as a result getting married quickly. That should not really be a problem, unless the church fails to provide the couples with premarital CHRISTIAN counseling.

3. As to tithing, many evangelical and fundamental churches make the mistake of teaching tithing, when the New Testament provides excellent teaching on Christian giving. What you should do is simply give as God leads you and at the same time study the principles of Christian *liberality*. The modern Prosperity Gospel is false, and Christian giving was never meant to be a way to get something back or become prosperous. It is meant to be an act or worship, an offering to the Lord.

4. As to tongues and healing, that is standard for Pentecostal churches. If you are uncomfortable with that emphasis, there are plenty of other churches which do not stress these gifts.

I hope this helps.

 

[Adam4Eve]

As soon as ppl knew I have a bf I had people pushing me
1. Marry him traditionally and do it now asap
or
2. Leave him!

I put my foot down and reminded them both that its between me and God and not them. Free will is a real thing.
With that Ive had a lot of resistance of people pushing me in either direction.
The only good thing was that some took it up with God later and came back respecting my decision

Well this is another thing, which I forgot to mention in my original post.

One young girl in my church had a non-Christian boyfriend.
She is quite meek and with all due respect to her, responds to 'pressure' put on her by other people.
Somebody from the church had a word with her and told her that she couldn't take part in any activities within the church until she split up with him.
For her this meant no singing and no helping out on teams on a Sunday.
She caved in and rather than go to a different church, she split up with her boyfriend.

I bet they were still ok with her donating until they split up though...

Another girl has a non-Christian boyfriend and she is completely the opposite.
I think somebody has said something to her at one point but I don't know the details.
I think she basically said that if they don't want her on a team on Sunday, they'll have to find somebody else.

The church then found themselves short of people so they asked her to help. She now regularly helps with the lights, video and music on Sundays.
She is still with her boyfriend.

Each to their own and all that but quite frankly it just goes to show that if you're willing to let these kinds of people take control of you, they'll happily sink their claws in.
Bite back though (as I've had to do, though only once and nothing to do with relationships) and they'll soon back off.

This kind of behaviour is unholy, and nothing other than people trying to control and manipulate you.

 

[Demi777]

Well this is another thing, which I forgot to mention in my original post.

One young girl in my church had a non-Christian boyfriend.
She is quite meek and with all due respect to her, responds to 'pressure' put on her by other people.
Somebody from the church had a word with her and told her that she couldn't take part in any activities within the church until she split up with him.
For her this meant no singing and no helping out on teams on a Sunday.
She caved in and rather than go to a different church, she split up with her boyfriend.

I bet they were still ok with her donating until they split up though...

Another girl has a non-Christian boyfriend and she is completely the opposite.
I think somebody has said something to her at one point but I don't know the details.
I think she basically said that if they don't want her on a team on Sunday, they'll have to find somebody else.

The church then found themselves short of people so they asked her to help. She now regularly helps with the lights, video and music on Sundays.
She is still with her boyfriend.

Each to their own and all that but quite frankly it just goes to show that if you're willing to let these kinds of people take control of you, they'll happily sink their claws in.
Bite back though (as I've had to do, though only once and nothing to do with relationships) and they'll soon back off.

This kind of behaviour is unholy, and nothing other than people trying to control and manipulate you.

My bf isnt christian eiter which is why ppl pressured me to leave. Even trying to make me feel bad. Saying things like "what would you do if Jesus showed up and he is beside you huh what would you say" and things like that.
Obviously it didnt work nor did it make me feel bad , only angry that the thought they could make me feel miserable over something I take to God nearly daily to fuel and let his spirit work.
Ive learned to put on my armour. It is crucial. You need to be at peace and stand strong or people will maipulate and destroy you in no matter what they see they can use that doesnt fit their minds

 

[7seasrekeyed]

yeah

a person's head could explode with all the 'expectations' put on you by some people

learn it now and learn it quick. you don't have to fit in, you don't have to please people (don't be a jerk though), you are allowed to think for yourself, you are allowed to read the Bible and progress at your own speed, you are not going to hell if you disagree with everyone's favorite so called resident 'prophet' who always has a word for you straight from God and by gum you had better listen to it and act accordingly (my all time favorite), you are allowed to change churches and God is not angry with you if you do so, and just about anything else that allows you to be a 'free agent' with your own mind and thinking processes in tact.

been there, not going back, God is not a dictator, hard to get to know especially when beginning, does not demand impossible things and no tithing either but certainly give...God loves a cheerful giver and that means more than money although you wouldn't know it from the way some folks try to guilt trip people into coughing it up

and a whole bunch more too gained from many years in church and a few denominations just for good measure

not pessimistic...but certainly have become realistic

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Good day to you all, and happy new year.

I'm hoping that by reaching out in faith, some of you will be able to advise me on what follows.

I'm sure that contributors to these forums are worldly and pragmatic enough to understand that it would be particularly helpful if those who have some actual real life experience of what I'm talking about were to share their thoughts.
This prevents my request for help descending into purely theoretical or opinion driven discussion (that is, without the foundation of experience).

A bit of background:
I was not raised a Christian but converted a little over a year ago.
I do not have the experience of visiting churches of different denominations, and I currently still attend the same pentacostal church that I attended when I first converted.

I wish to make it clear that I do not take issue with the church that I am attending or any of the people in it.
Yes there are cliques that make me question the whole 'brothers and sisters in Christ' thing, but it could be worse.
Yes, some of the things they do, for example speaking in tongues and faith healing, are a bit dramatised and feel a bit like a show (for want of a better word), but whatever.

In short, I'm struggling with some aspects of the culture within the church, because some things strike me as being slightly odd or contrived.

To be more specific, in any other culture/club/society that I'm also part of, the societal rules or norms do not differ wildly (if at all) from those in everyday society.
However this does not hold for my church.
This is what I'm struggling with, and I wonder if it's the same elsewhere.

The difference in societal rules or norms does not appear to have anything to do with holding ourselves to a different standard in order to try to emulate God, or anything like that.

For example, the rate at which single people within the church get together is quite shocking, as is the speed with which they subsequently marry, have children, and so on.

Yes I know, people with similar interests get together.
I don't need to be told about how relationships work thanks, which is irrelevant to my point anyway.

The point is the speed at which people get together and go on to develop their relationship, and the observation that church people, more than people in any other society I've been a member of, couple with others from within the same society.

Obviously there may be some realistic reasons why this is the case.
Sex before marriage may be a 'pressure', but whatever.
Just one observation.

While on the subject of relationships, the unwritten rule I've observed is that all the single people who are 'in the market' for a partner tend to be on one of the church teams that volunteer on a Sunday.
Almost exclusively these teams are made up by younger single people.

I'm not knocking people who want to find a partner.
I'm not knocking anything, as a matter of fact.
I'm just struggling to reconcile what would be accepted as 'usual' or 'normal' on the outside, compared with what is considered normal or usual on the inside.

Apologies if this is coming across as a bit picky or critical, it isn't meant to.
I'm sure most readers are astute enough to understand what I mean and where I'm coming from.

I mentioned talking in tongues and faith healing above.
These aren't things that I eitness every Sunday, but they do have prominence within the church.
These things are subtly seen as an indicator to your 'level' of faith, or how close you are with God.

This doesn't sit right with me.
My spidey-senses are pretty sharp, and any talk of 'levels of faith' (however it is worded or prescribed) strikes me as man-made.

Tithing is another one.
I was introduced to the idea of tithing very early on, within the first two months of attending the Church.
Every other Sunday there will be an offering talk during which compulsory giving is justified with Malachi.

I'm no Biblical scholar, but were no longer under the old covenant and Malachi provides instructions on how best to organise resources to account for the good and bad times.
It doesn't provide an instruction from God that says giving 10% of your gross income to your church is compulsory.

Tithing in the church is also seen as an indicator to where you are with your faith.
If you're giving, especially if you're giving an appreciable amount, you're viewed as being more stable or strong in your faith.
Again, the faith levels thing, just worded differently.

Any practical views on any of this?

Thanks in advance.

I can't say, after all that, that I'm entirely clear what the issue is. Is it that a community that emphasizes family tend to marry quicker? If so what is the problem? If not critical than what (there feels like an underlying critical tone throughout)?

I'll tackle things the best I can grasp them.
First, church is full of struggling sinners. Expect some degree of wrong behavior because Christians aren't sinless, they are people struggling and fighting against sin in their lives.
Paul, who wrote most if the New Testament, wrote "I do what I do not want to do, and what I want to do I do not do".

As far as judging peoples degree of spirituality I'd say it's a natural human inclination to put things in measurable terms. Unfortunately it simply doesn't mesh well with faith. Every persons journey is different and we all learn lessons and have varying priorities and struggles.

Tithing is a split subject. Some believe it still applies, others do not. Follow your own conscience and what you read in the bible. It's better to do that than just do what you're told. Though theres also wisdom in getting more detailed answers from people with both views, so you can come to a more educated conclusion.

As far as your Pentecostal church, I'll probably ruffle feathers by saying this, but that may be part of the problem.
I was also saved into the Pentecostal church and involved in many charismatic based activities until I gave it up and walked away. I've discussed with many, and read of many others who have done the same.
One of my biggest issues is the blatant disregard for the biblical teachings of tongues.
They also have a tendency to be more easily swayed away from biblical doctrine due to their emphasis on feeling spiritual things (which isn't actually faith based). Many of them have become indoctrinated with very unbiblical teachings. So I always dissuade people away from it.

I'd suggest looking at standards as something to aim for, and encourage others to work towards, while Also keeping a realistic view on what can be expected from people still fighting their demons. Rather than a rigid line that everyone else "should" be at, because, otherwise, what makes you so different from them? Which is kind of where you're at currently.

All I have time for now. Hope it helps.

 

[Adam4Eve]

yeah

a person's head could explode with all the 'expectations' put on you by some people

learn it now and learn it quick. you don't have to fit in, you don't have to please people (don't be a jerk though), you are allowed to think for yourself, you are allowed to read the Bible and progress at your own speed, you are not going to hell if you disagree with everyone's favorite so called resident 'prophet' who always has a word for you straight from God and by gum you had better listen to it and act accordingly (my all time favorite), you are allowed to change churches and God is not angry with you if you do so, and just about anything else that allows you to be a 'free agent' with your own mind and thinking processes in tact.

been there, not going back, God is not a dictator, hard to get to know especially when beginning, does not demand impossible things and no tithing either but certainly give...God loves a cheerful giver and that means more than money although you wouldn't know it from the way some folks try to guilt trip people into coughing it up

and a whole bunch more too gained from many years in church and a few denominations just for good measure

not pessimistic...but certainly have become realistic

Very honest and very pragmatic account, so thanks for sharing.

I haven't been a Christian for long but I do understand that some church 'elders' wield the time they have been reading the Bible as a kind of stick of authority to tell other people what they should do and believe.

Best thing you can do is read for yourselves with a clear vision, rather than a vision that has already been tainted by somebody else's beliefs or interpretation.

Most are good people with good intentions, but people like that should not only be ignored, but called out for the manipulating serpents they are.

 

[CherieR]

As you read the Bible and learn and grow in your faith, you may find yourself questioning practices, traditional views and some rules. You may also experience shifts in what you believe about various topics. This is normal. Sounds like to me you are being discerning with the faith healings, speaking in tongues and the rule of Christians only dating other Christians. This is good to look at these things to see whether it is of truth or not. There is such thing as fake healings and people who do it for show, but God is still a God of miracles. He can do the impossible.

 

[MattforJesus]

Jesus said, since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold concerning this time, and the last generation shall devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, which they will heap and heap to themselves in a selfish, and self exalting fashion.

Technology is the culprit, and it brought out the selfishness, and arrogance, and self exaltation, of people to a degree never seen before technology.

So the condition of the world, especially America, in relation to each other is they do not trust each other as much as before technology, so it affects marriages as they are more reluctant, and cautious, to get married.

In Church, especially one that preaches the holiness of Jesus, and to act Christlike to be pleasing to God, not only would it be birds of a feather flock together, but they would have a higher trust towards each other that the marriage would work and be good compared to the world, so they do not have to get to know the person for that long believing it will be alright.

Like before technology they had more trust towards each other, for they were basically on the same level, and nothing to cling unto to exalt themselves, and be selfish, so they looked at each other as being basically good, and decent, which now they view each other as dogs basically caring about themselves.

Concerning not tithes.

The Bible says that whatever a person purposes in their own heart let them give that.

We are only to go by our needs, and not our wants, and help the poor and needy if possible.

The early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity, and distributed to the poor, and had all things common.

There is not mention of tithes given by any saint in the New Testament, and no writer said to give tithes.

Concerning tithes.

Jesus is made after the order of Melchizedek forever, and Abraham gave Melchizedek tithes before the Leviticus priesthood.

Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross, for they had no bearing on spiritual salvation, but did not mention tithes being taken away.

But I do know we only go by our needs, and not our wants, and to help the poor and needy if possible, and the preacher is not to be in the ministry for the money, and the money to the Church should go to the poor and needy, and to further the kingdom of God, and the saints took care of Paul's needs, food and clothing, while he traveled around, as the saints should also take care of the poor saints.

The culture in a Church is supposed to be different than the culture in society, for it is the Church, which the world will think it is strange that the saints do not run to the same excess of rioting as they do.

God said in a great house there are some to honor and some to dishonor, so there will be some hypocrites that go to Church, but it is still a great house, but there will be more of them today than in the past, but if a Church preaches the holiness of Jesus, and act Christlike by the Spirit, then the hypocrites will be less, and have it toned down more, compared to a Church where they say that they are alright despite their sins, and relaxed concerning the Christian way, and in a Church that preaches the holiness of Jesus as a requirement the trust between them would be greater so they might marry faster than the world that is reluctant, and cautious, about getting married for the trust level is lower among them than any other time in history.

For you do not know what you are getting in the world for it is a gamble, and the faults come out later, but before technology, and a Church that preaches the holiness of Jesus the trust level is high, and they are assured that what they see is what they get for the most part.
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