Struggling with 'Christian culture'
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What you do in your own life is none of my business.
But if you want to encouarge other people to do the same...
that's a different issue.
Do whatever you like in your life... nobody's business.
But if you want to give people here unbiblical advice... then it's everybody's business.
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Shes not giving anyone advice she is struggling.
The problem being may misunderstanding something. One doesnt need to struggle if one just yields to God.
If people want to go against God in any area of their life, say to the point of being yoked with an unbeliever, they are going to struggle.
Sometimes we think we can go ahead and just do stuff and tell God later after we already done it. Well yes you can live your life like that but you doing it the hard way. How about listening to God first and taking His advice and following His instructions. In my experience its always better to do it Gods way than your own way.
We are not of the world, we are in the world but not of it. So believers are not going to act like the world and yes it will be different we cant compare ourselves to the worlds way.
Jacob struggled with God, well he wrestled and got a permanent limp. but he obtained the blessing. He said I wont let you go until you bless me. And so he was named Israel.
I can see you are like Jacob. You are struggling, but you really want the blessing. jacob married the first girl he laid eyes on .rachel, but her dad wanted him to marry the eldest daughter Leah instead. Yet Jacob loved Rachel, and leah couldnt do anything about that, even when she gave him five sons. This caused a whole lot of rivalry between the two sisters. GOd still blessed all of his children even the ones that came from .rachel, yet she died in childbirth. Why am I telling you this. Well see even when we think we doing right we can still go against God and reap the consequences. I am not saying its easy, but dont make it harder for yourself and everyone else. To obey and trust God is a simple thing. But we often want to take matters into our own hands. i can tell you a lot of broken hearts and homes are a result.
Btw Jesus descended from Jacob (Israel) through Judah who Jacob had with Leah, not Rachel.
The problem being may misunderstanding something. One doesnt need to struggle if one just yields to God.
If people want to go against God in any area of their life, say to the point of being yoked with an unbeliever, they are going to struggle.
Sometimes we think we can go ahead and just do stuff and tell God later after we already done it. Well yes you can live your life like that but you doing it the hard way. How about listening to God first and taking His advice and following His instructions. In my experience its always better to do it Gods way than your own way.
We are not of the world, we are in the world but not of it. So believers are not going to act like the world and yes it will be different we cant compare ourselves to the worlds way.
Jacob struggled with God, well he wrestled and got a permanent limp. but he obtained the blessing. He said I wont let you go until you bless me. And so he was named Israel.
I can see you are like Jacob. You are struggling, but you really want the blessing. jacob married the first girl he laid eyes on .rachel, but her dad wanted him to marry the eldest daughter Leah instead. Yet Jacob loved Rachel, and leah couldnt do anything about that, even when she gave him five sons. This caused a whole lot of rivalry between the two sisters. GOd still blessed all of his children even the ones that came from .rachel, yet she died in childbirth. Why am I telling you this. Well see even when we think we doing right we can still go against God and reap the consequences. I am not saying its easy, but dont make it harder for yourself and everyone else. To obey and trust God is a simple thing. But we often want to take matters into our own hands. i can tell you a lot of broken hearts and homes are a result.
Btw Jesus descended from Jacob (Israel) through Judah who Jacob had with Leah, not Rachel.
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L
Yep, Christian culture is pretty bizarre when comparing to societal standards, some groups can be pretty far out. Pentecostal folks is definitely one of those that can be pretty far out, with the strict standards. As far as singles getting together in the church, and it happing fast, yep that's a thing and where else should they get together? The bar like most of the rest of America? Church made marriages actually tend to last, so good on them.
As far as the girls dating non Christians, maybe the church folks were a little heavy handed, but maybe not. So let's break it down. If you are in a exclusive dating relationship then you are headed toward engagement and marriage, if these aren't the goal then what cause do you have for the relationship? To simply put yourself in a compromising situation? If you are headed toward a more permanent situation then there are consequences, for example you marry an unbeliever and have children, then what influence does the unbeliever have on the children, and how long does the unbeliever go before they pressure you to stop going to church with words like, I work all week and many Saturdays too, can you just spend the one day with me? And then the sinnful stuff they do that you can't abide. Like drinking
The Bible says don't be yoked with unbelievers for a reason.
As far as the girls dating non Christians, maybe the church folks were a little heavy handed, but maybe not. So let's break it down. If you are in a exclusive dating relationship then you are headed toward engagement and marriage, if these aren't the goal then what cause do you have for the relationship? To simply put yourself in a compromising situation? If you are headed toward a more permanent situation then there are consequences, for example you marry an unbeliever and have children, then what influence does the unbeliever have on the children, and how long does the unbeliever go before they pressure you to stop going to church with words like, I work all week and many Saturdays too, can you just spend the one day with me? And then the sinnful stuff they do that you can't abide. Like drinking
The Bible says don't be yoked with unbelievers for a reason.
7
right. many long time Bible readers have hard hearts that it seems the word can no longer penetrate. I think that occurs when you do not do what the Bible says you ought to be doing but instead grow self righteous and satisfied and forget God does not care for pride but rewards the humble who remember who offers grace and salvation
manipulation is never godly. it's as old as can be though. we need to guard our hearts so that we do not do it either
thanks
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Let's go over this response to my post#22
1. "just because someone disagrees with my opinion doesn't make it unbiblical"
Correct.
It isn't disagreement with others that makes your opinion unbiblical;
It is disagreement with the bible that makes your opinion unbiblical.
2. "I have the right to say my opinion just like everyone else"
Correct.
You have the right to say your opinion,
and others have the right to critique it...
just like with everyone else.
3. "I didn't tell people to do the same"
Incorrect.
Here you both strawman my original statement, and simultaneously try to hide what you actually did... very deceptive.
A. First: You just tried to strawman my argument... this is intentionally deceptive.
I did not say you TOLD people to do the same (as in an explicit statement),
I said you "encouraged" people to do the same... which can be done in a number of ways, and doesn't have to be explicit.
You intentionally misrepresented what I said, so you could claim you never made an explicit statement.
This is quite an abundance of quite slippery and clever rhetoric on your part to mislead others and give yourself cover...
I'm sure it's all just coincidental.
B. Second: You did indeed "tell people to do the same" in an indirect way, through rationalization and justification.
You were attempting to RATIONALIZE and JUSTIFY the poor choice of someone dating a non-christian;
you did this by using yourself as an example, and giving rationalization and justification for your OWN poor choice of dating a non-christian.
* You were using your own poor choices as an example, to give rationalization and justification to others who are making the same poor choices as you.
(This is clearly evidenced in post #15: When you state the word "either" you are directly referring back to someone else doing the same thing in a previous post which you actually quoted. This is a direct reference in a direct logical thought... and then you go on to justify your own unbiblical choices. So you are ARE INDEED talking about others doing the same as you, and you are attempting to justify this.)
4. REASON: The whole reason I brought this issue up, back in post #22:
A. You were using your own example of unbiblical choices to give RATIONALIZATION and JUSTIFICATION to others making the same unbiblical choices.
B. When you use your own poor choices as an example to others, in a forum where people look for answers to such things, it is highly probably this will LEAD OTHER YOUNG BELIEVERS INTO POOR LIFE CHOICES.
Conclusion:
1. You were using your own unbiblical life choices to give others rationalization and justification for doing the same.
2. Doing this has a high probability of harming others who are seeking helpful, healing, and biblical answers in their life.
3. When I brought up the fact you were encouraging people in your own poor choices, you actually DENIED doing it and said, "I didn't tell people to do the same". You tried to hide what you did, and you essentially just lied to everyone.
4. You are free to choose any lifestyles you wish, and choose any opinions you wish -
but if you come to a Christian forum and promote these unbiblical opinions to others,
and then go so far as turn around and deny you're promoting them,
and then go even further and argue with those who point this out...
you should expect both your opinions and your methods to be critiqued.
If you are the intellectual person you claim to be, then I am doing nothing more than what you should rationally expect after you promote unbiblical life choices in a Christian forum.
For the record, I don't dislike you, and I'm not out to get you.
I think you're just a young person who is acting unwisely, and attempting to justify your unwise actions.
This is just what humans do... especially young humans.
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1. "just because someone disagrees with my opinion doesn't make it unbiblical"
Correct.
It isn't disagreement with others that makes your opinion unbiblical;
It is disagreement with the bible that makes your opinion unbiblical.
2. "I have the right to say my opinion just like everyone else"
Correct.
You have the right to say your opinion,
and others have the right to critique it...
just like with everyone else.
3. "I didn't tell people to do the same"
Incorrect.
Here you both strawman my original statement, and simultaneously try to hide what you actually did... very deceptive.
A. First: You just tried to strawman my argument... this is intentionally deceptive.
I did not say you TOLD people to do the same (as in an explicit statement),
I said you "encouraged" people to do the same... which can be done in a number of ways, and doesn't have to be explicit.
You intentionally misrepresented what I said, so you could claim you never made an explicit statement.
This is quite an abundance of quite slippery and clever rhetoric on your part to mislead others and give yourself cover...
I'm sure it's all just coincidental.
B. Second: You did indeed "tell people to do the same" in an indirect way, through rationalization and justification.
You were attempting to RATIONALIZE and JUSTIFY the poor choice of someone dating a non-christian;
you did this by using yourself as an example, and giving rationalization and justification for your OWN poor choice of dating a non-christian.
* You were using your own poor choices as an example, to give rationalization and justification to others who are making the same poor choices as you.
(This is clearly evidenced in post #15: When you state the word "either" you are directly referring back to someone else doing the same thing in a previous post which you actually quoted. This is a direct reference in a direct logical thought... and then you go on to justify your own unbiblical choices. So you are ARE INDEED talking about others doing the same as you, and you are attempting to justify this.)
4. REASON: The whole reason I brought this issue up, back in post #22:
A. You were using your own example of unbiblical choices to give RATIONALIZATION and JUSTIFICATION to others making the same unbiblical choices.
B. When you use your own poor choices as an example to others, in a forum where people look for answers to such things, it is highly probably this will LEAD OTHER YOUNG BELIEVERS INTO POOR LIFE CHOICES.
Conclusion:
1. You were using your own unbiblical life choices to give others rationalization and justification for doing the same.
2. Doing this has a high probability of harming others who are seeking helpful, healing, and biblical answers in their life.
3. When I brought up the fact you were encouraging people in your own poor choices, you actually DENIED doing it and said, "I didn't tell people to do the same". You tried to hide what you did, and you essentially just lied to everyone.
4. You are free to choose any lifestyles you wish, and choose any opinions you wish -
but if you come to a Christian forum and promote these unbiblical opinions to others,
and then go so far as turn around and deny you're promoting them,
and then go even further and argue with those who point this out...
you should expect both your opinions and your methods to be critiqued.
If you are the intellectual person you claim to be, then I am doing nothing more than what you should rationally expect after you promote unbiblical life choices in a Christian forum.
For the record, I don't dislike you, and I'm not out to get you.
I think you're just a young person who is acting unwisely, and attempting to justify your unwise actions.
This is just what humans do... especially young humans.
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I never said "choosing any lifestyle you wish" is necessarily acceptable to God.
But we do in fact have VOLITION, actual volition, to choose our own ethics and actions.
We all have the volition to choose ethics and actions that are biblical, or ethics and actions that are unbiblical.
That's all I was referring to... just a person's own freedom of volition.
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But we do in fact have VOLITION, actual volition, to choose our own ethics and actions.
We all have the volition to choose ethics and actions that are biblical, or ethics and actions that are unbiblical.
That's all I was referring to... just a person's own freedom of volition.
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7
4. You are free to choose any lifestyles you wish, and choose any opinions you wish
you exactly did say that to Demi.
she is not free to choose any lifestyle she wishes. no one is
you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth and doing damage control
why on earth go to such lengths to prove she said what she actually did not say. the Bible does not make exceptions for anyone
so many seem to try and sit on the throne of judgement and the harder they try, the more they pin themselves under the judgement they hand out
if you knew all the sins of people on this forum that they do not post about, you would be a busy man and how do you know how God deals with people in the reality of their lives or why they do what they do?
why are Christians shocked at other Christians? tell you why...it falsely allows them to reason they are better
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"she is not free to choose any lifestyle she wishes. no one is"
CAN & SHOULD
You are confusing the idea of "CAN" with the idea of "SHOULD"... they are not the same.
What Demi "can" do, and what she "should" do, are not the same.
I was only addressing what Demi "can" do, not what she "should" do.
You are therefore arguing about something entirely different than what I was addressing.
CAN
Everyone is given some volition, from God, to make choices.
Everyone has some degree of innate volitional ability, given by God, to make certain kinds of choices.
PROOF of "CAN"
1. Go outside in the world and look around. You'll see people making all kinds of different choices, many of them sinful.
2. Go inside your local church and look around. You'll see Christians making all kinds of different choices, many of them sinful.
3. Why does Paul correct the Corinthian church? It's because they are living in sin, and making wrong choices.
4. Why does the New Testament tell the believers, in every book, to follow principles of behavior? It's so we'll make right choices.
5. Why do pastors study counseling, and offer counseling to people in all different situations... to help them make right choices.
* Demi does NOT have freedom to make lifestyle choices which are all equally pleasing to god.
* Demi certainly DOES have volition, given her by God, which renders her CAPABLE of different choices.
Conclusion:
We must not confuse "can" with "should"...
although we can give in to this error of equivocation,
we should not.
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7seasrekeyed,
In all fairness to you, this is a very common bit of semantic ground that causes a lot of confusion in Christianity.
It's a very common place of confusion.
The confusion is due to the way both laymen and pastors commonly use these terms.
A. In English, the word "can" can be used to mean either "can" or "should".
Very confusing.
B. As Christians, we often say a christian "cannot" do a thing, when what we really mean is they "should not"; they "cannot do a thing and be right with God."
Again, very confusing.
As Christians, and English speakers, we commonly use these words in different ways..
and it commonly ends up in confusion.
If my use of the language was confusing to you, then I apologize for the confusion.
I try to be clear.
If I was unclear, then I apologize.
..
In all fairness to you, this is a very common bit of semantic ground that causes a lot of confusion in Christianity.
It's a very common place of confusion.
The confusion is due to the way both laymen and pastors commonly use these terms.
A. In English, the word "can" can be used to mean either "can" or "should".
Very confusing.
B. As Christians, we often say a christian "cannot" do a thing, when what we really mean is they "should not"; they "cannot do a thing and be right with God."
Again, very confusing.
As Christians, and English speakers, we commonly use these words in different ways..
and it commonly ends up in confusion.
If my use of the language was confusing to you, then I apologize for the confusion.
I try to be clear.
If I was unclear, then I apologize.
..
Here we go, the egg heads have taken over the thread for their own Biblical debate.
And they'll justify it, and have a go at me for calling them out, with infantile aemi-biblical nonsense.
For goodness sake, if you want to judge people yourself, why not do it with Jesus stood beside you?
Go any have your infantile debate elsewhere,breather than hijacking other's threads.
Leave the rest of us to stick on topic.
And they'll justify it, and have a go at me for calling them out, with infantile aemi-biblical nonsense.
For goodness sake, if you want to judge people yourself, why not do it with Jesus stood beside you?
Go any have your infantile debate elsewhere,breather than hijacking other's threads.
Leave the rest of us to stick on topic.
7
no. I got you straight
if you think you were confusing, then kindly attribute it to your own understanding
honest to pete, you sure love to try and prove how perfect, correct and just a cut above everyone else you are
shall we now discuss our IQ's? I don't think I could stand to have a coffee with you if your conversation is as stuffy as the way your write
you are almost funny