Law keeping?

[gb9]

You personally were never given the Sabbath as a benefit to you because you deny God the Father, saying God only created the world Jews. You deny the world for yourself.

A covenant tells of a relationship. The covenant given on Mt Sinai told of the results to us of what the law does, promising us that it brings blessings as we obey and curses as we disobey. We know this is true, as our prison system today shows us about curses and the track record of the Jews who try to obey shows us blessings. That covenant was not, as you have said, cancelled. We still have blessings, and murderers still go to jail.

Christ told us that He and the Father are one, yet you state the OT only tells of Jews and Jewishness. You are denying Christ when you deny the Father.

I am not denying the Father. I told you already , a couple of times I think , about what the Father said in Leviticus 26 about the Covenant He made with the fathers of those who came out of Egypt.

you dismissed the Father's words here, because they do not fit in your religion.

not to mention, the Father said of the Son " hear Him " on the mount of transfiguration . so, to give the words in red precedent over all other Scripture IS obeying the Father.

 

[gb9]

Or not the written law may be more exact:

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

right .

the point I keep making with the judeaizers is that the actual letter of the Law was never commanded to the gentiles.

 

[Tim416]

right .

the point I keep making with the judeaizers is that the actual letter of the Law was never commanded to the gentiles.

Agreed, under the new covenant it is not a law written in ink but one written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers.

 

[Blik]

Paul referred to " the ministry of death, written on stones " . recon what he was referring to? what was written in stone?

and, yes, Paul was a jew, who did keep the festivals, etc.. but never commanded anyone to do so in any of His letters. never Sabbath either. so, since the gentiles did not have the Law, Paul did not teach them to keep the Sabbath, how in the world can you or anyone say that gentiles have to keep the Law??

and Paul also stated that the letter ( the literal ) kills, but the Sprit give life.

oh, and I do not like to say this, it sounds like boasting, and we are told not to, --- I have read the Bible al the through 17-18 times ( lost count).


so, please stop saying I need to study, I know what the Bible says, I know what it does not say.

Do you believe in the spirit of the law, or just believe in lawlessness? The law itself is embedded in the spirit of the law, the spirit adds to law and does not cancel anything.

Reading bible, without learning anything about it, is useless. I am sorry to say this, also, but even the demons know scripture. It is love that makes the difference, it is as you say the spirit of God that gives understanding.

I am not denying the Father. I told you already , a couple of times I think , about what the Father said in Leviticus 26 about the Covenant He made with the fathers of those who came out of Egypt.

you dismissed the Father's words here, because they do not fit in your religion.

not to mention, the Father said of the Son " hear Him " on the mount of transfiguration . so, to give the words in red precedent over all other Scripture IS obeying the Father.

I do not have a religion! A religion is something men dream up. I try my best to understand the truth of the spirit that scripture tells of. If I am wrong then it is not religion, it is me being wrong.

If you are right and I am wrong then we are all in serious trouble for the God who created us cannot be trusted.

I feel certain I can trust our creator to stand by His word of a covenant defining a relationship with us. You feel certain that a new covenant cancels that word. In Lev. 26 we are told of the covenant God made with us you say it is cancelled. This covenant in Lev. explains law and grace. I think we have a new better grace in Christ. You acknowledge the new but say the old is cancelled. I think the law is part of creation and is part of God so it cannot be cancelled. Christ explained it more completely, giving us not only the law but the spirit of the law.

I hope your cancellation understanding of God is wrong, I feel sure it is. God is eternal, God is Holy, God is all goodness, God is everything Psalms tells us God is. If you are right then Psalms is wrong. I am putting my life in God's hands and I feel it is a good place for my life to be, not the untrustworthy picture you make of God.

 

[Tim416]

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so that we may obey it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so that we may obey it?’ 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so that you may obey it.


15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. Deut30:11-16

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant – not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 2Cor3:6-9

Why did Moses tell the people that to obey the law was not too difficult or beyond their reach, but Paul wrote it was the ministry of death and condemnation. Why the difference?

 

[gb9]

Do you believe in the spirit of the law, or just believe in lawlessness? The law itself is embedded in the spirit of the law, the spirit adds to law and does not cancel anything.

Reading bible, without learning anything about it, is useless. I am sorry to say this, also, but even the demons know scripture. It is love that makes the difference, it is as you say the spirit of God that gives understanding.
I do not have a religion! A religion is something men dream up. I try my best to understand the truth of the spirit that scripture tells of. If I am wrong then it is not religion, it is me being wrong.

If you are right and I am wrong then we are all in serious trouble for the God who created us cannot be trusted.

I feel certain I can trust our creator to stand by His word of a covenant defining a relationship with us. You feel certain that a new covenant cancels that word. In Lev. 26 we are told of the covenant God made with us you say it is cancelled. This covenant in Lev. explains law and grace. I think we have a new better grace in Christ. You acknowledge the new but say the old is cancelled. I think the law is part of creation and is part of God so it cannot be cancelled. Christ explained it more completely, giving us not only the law but the spirit of the law.

I hope your cancellation understanding of God is wrong, I feel sure it is. God is eternal, God is Holy, God is all goodness, God is everything Psalms tells us God is. If you are right then Psalms is wrong. I am putting my life in God's hands and I feel it is a good place for my life to be, not the untrustworthy picture you make of God.

I trust Jesus Christ 100% for my salvation. all glory to Him!!

I am by no means trying to make you or anyone think that God is not trustworthy.

I am saying trust Christ for salvation, all Him.

not attempt to trust Christ and keep the Law.

Christ is 100% able to save anyone who comes to Him in sincere belief.

but, you have to accept the Gift. once you think you have to earn the gift, it is no longer a gift.

 

[Blik]

Why did Moses tell the people that to obey the law was not too difficult or beyond their reach, but Paul wrote it was the ministry of death and condemnation. Why the difference?

When we find differences in scripture it is important that we work through them. We know God is Eternal, God is good, God created us so God knows all about our world and explains it in scripture, so a difference has to be in our understanding or God is not what scripture tells us.

We know the law is the same in Moses time and Paul's time. What was different was the people's culture and how they were thinking. Moses worked with people who knew Egyptian ways better than Hebrew ways, in a world where government was cruel to the people. Paul worked in a world where Rome ruled and the Hebrews had many different beliefs.

Christ was new to the people and Paul's work was to get the knowledge of Christ to gentiles and Jews. When Christ taught law it was to teach the spirit of the law and when Christ spoke against the law it was against legalistic obedience rather than the spirit of the law.

With this understanding, the sameness of the scripture is clear. In Moses' time it was good, simple and right to obey the ten commandments. To do something like the Pharisee at Christ' time of praying by a strutting prayer in the street wouldn't occur to them. In Paul's time they must learn about the real law.

 

[Blik]

I trust Jesus Christ 100% for my salvation. all glory to Him!!

I am by no means trying to make you or anyone think that God is not trustworthy.

I am saying trust Christ for salvation, all Him.

not attempt to trust Christ and keep the Law.

Christ is 100% able to save anyone who comes to Him in sincere belief.

but, you have to accept the Gift. once you think you have to earn the gift, it is no longer a gift.

Such a blessing, such a wonderful post. Such truth! Then you have to spoil it with this blabber about earning salvation by obedience as if salvation was a reason.

 

[Tim416]

When we find differences in scripture it is important that we work through them. We know God is Eternal, God is good, God created us so God knows all about our world and explains it in scripture, so a difference has to be in our understanding or God is not what scripture tells us.

We know the law is the same in Moses time and Paul's time. What was different was the people's culture and how they were thinking. Moses worked with people who knew Egyptian ways better than Hebrew ways, in a world where government was cruel to the people. Paul worked in a world where Rome ruled and the Hebrews had many different beliefs.

Christ was new to the people and Paul's work was to get the knowledge of Christ to gentiles and Jews. When Christ taught law it was to teach the spirit of the law and when Christ spoke against the law it was against legalistic obedience rather than the spirit of the law.

With this understanding, the sameness of the scripture is clear. In Moses' time it was good, simple and right to obey the ten commandments. To do something like the Pharisee at Christ' time of praying by a strutting prayer in the street wouldn't occur to them. In Paul's time they must learn about the real law.

I think you might be saying, though in a different way. Moses did not expect people to faultlessly follow the letter of the law(obviously) and God did not either. For that is out of mans reach, but when Moses said obeying the law was not too hard to do, he meant obeying the Spirit of the law as it were. People were to love God and seek to obey him according to what was written. But though, because they loved God they wanted to obey him, they would inevitably break the letter of the law along the way. But they would be following the Spirit of the law, by desiring to generally live according to what the law stated. That is not hard to do.


Whereas, along came the Pharisees and demanded faultless obedience to the letter of the law. And Paul had been an ardent Pharisee. You can never be truly righteous according to obeying the letter of the law, for all will fail to obey that letter faultlessly. In that sense, the law is the ministration of death and condemnation, the letter that kills. And so, according to what is actually written, you cannot be truly righteous before God by obeying the law, hence the need for a saviour from your sin. And Christ taught the Spifrit of the law, not the legalistic letter of it, he did not neglect, mercy, failthfulness and justice as the Pharisees did





You are the only person who responded to the question, and in my view well addressed it. Yet some on this site may attack you for being legalistic, thinking they have superior knowledge.


God bless

 

[seed_time_harvest]

This is an oblique approach to calling the obedient slaves to the law.

Obeying God, our Father, is our due, not some elective subject as taking social sciences.

The thing How obedient does the person have to be?would 50% obedience be acceptable to GOD?Don’t get me wrong being obedient to GOD Is a very Excellent thing but under a law mind set,the person has to be 100%,IMO,there Is a misunderstanding and difficulty explaining the difference In being obedient to GOD to obtain salvation and being obedient to GOD because the person has been born again and now In the process of renewing the mind.

 

[JaumeJ]

The thing How obedient does the person have to be?would 50% obedience be acceptable to GOD?Don’t get me wrong being obedient to GOD Is a very Excellent thing but under a law mind set,the person has to be 100%,IMO,there Is a misunderstanding and difficulty explaining the difference In being obedient to GOD to obtain salvation and being obedient to GOD because the person has been born again and now In the process of renewing the mind.

If you have not learned how teh law is after the teaching of Jesus Christ, I am afraid you will never understand obedience to theFather. First learn from Jesus as He has invited you, then come back and talk abut the subject with that knowledge. Otherwise you do not understand how the law is in the teachig of Jesus Christ.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If you have not learned how teh law is after the teaching of Jesus Christ, I am afraid you will never understand obedience to theFather. First learn from Jesus as He has invited you, then come back and talk abut the subject with that knowledge. Otherwise you do not understand how the law is in the teachig of Jesus Christ.

Same to you.

 

[JaumeJ]

Same to you.

Your understanding of the Word in this instance is only exceeded by your compassion for others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you only look to the law for what it looks like to be obedient, you will never understand obedience. Because the law was not given to show how, it was given to prove how we can’t be obedient.

 

[NayborBear]

so, what issue do you have with the Cannon? are you mad because 1st Enoch was left out?

Beings that Enoch was around, walking, talking, and preaching God, BEFORE "ANY Covenant", Old?, OR New, was NEEDED, betweenst God, and man?
Yeah? I reckon you could say, I am angry. Angry with man's "gullabitiy" and "short-sided in shelfihness!" Yes!
Does me being angry bother you?

 

[gb9]

Beings that Enoch was around, walking, talking, and preaching God, BEFORE "ANY Covenant", Old?, OR New, was NEEDED, betweenst God, and man?
Yeah? I reckon you could say, I am angry. Angry with man's "gullabitiy" and "short-sided in shelfihness!" Yes!
Does me being angry bother you?

Beings that Enoch was around, walking, talking, and preaching God, BEFORE "ANY Covenant", Old?, OR New, was NEEDED, betweenst God, and man?
Yeah? I reckon you could say, I am angry. Angry with man's "gullabitiy" and "short-sided in shelfihness!" Yes!
Does me being angry bother you?

nah. just another dude who thinks that the " truth ' is being suppressed.

all you guys have the same message- don't trust your Bible, your translation, Jesus was crucified on wed. , raised on the Sabbath, the earth is flat, there is a zionest cabal that runs the world, the jews in Israel are not the " real " jews….

all conspiracy theory garbage. and that is where all this " keep the Law/ Sabbath to be saved " junk belongs.

 

[NayborBear]

nah. just another dude who thinks that the " truth ' is being suppressed.

all you guys have the same message- don't trust your Bible, your translation, Jesus was crucified on wed. , raised on the Sabbath, the earth is flat, there is a zionest cabal that runs the world, the jews in Israel are not the " real " jews….

all conspiracy theory garbage. and that is where all this " keep the Law/ Sabbath to be saved " junk belongs.

GOOD!!.....Keep "thinking" that!"

 

[Blik]

I think you might be saying, though in a different way. Moses did not expect people to faultlessly follow the letter of the law(obviously) and God did not either. For that is out of mans reach, but when Moses said obeying the law was not too hard to do, he meant obeying the Spirit of the law as it were. People were to love God and seek to obey him according to what was written. But though, because they loved God they wanted to obey him, they would inevitably break the letter of the law along the way. But they would be following the Spirit of the law, by desiring to generally live according to what the law stated. That is not hard to do.


Whereas, along came the Pharisees and demanded faultless obedience to the letter of the law. And Paul had been an ardent Pharisee. You can never be truly righteous according to obeying the letter of the law, for all will fail to obey that letter faultlessly. In that sense, the law is the ministration of death and condemnation, the letter that kills. And so, according to what is actually written, you cannot be truly righteous before God by obeying the law, hence the need for a saviour from your sin. And Christ taught the Spifrit of the law, not the legalistic letter of it, he did not neglect, mercy, failthfulness and justice as the Pharisees did

You are the only person who responded to the question, and in my view well addressed it. Yet some on this site may attack you for being legalistic, thinking they have superior knowledge.

God bless

I think you are still reading scripture as if it is written to us in this century, and you apply it well. The problem is that Moses was speaking to people of centuries ago who had lived in Egypt several hundred years. They were so ignorant of the one God that they created the golden calf. Imagine the people of your church deciding they needed a gold calf! So what they heard about the law and what you hear with your background and education is very different. I think what we need to understand of the law given is that it is the way our world works for good, there was no concept of legalism at that time.

Paul spoke to a world closer to us, but still it was a different world. The message of Christ was closer to a message for us, that is not to use fleshly heartless obedience but to understand the spirit of God in the law and obey that. The spirit of the law includes the legalistic law, but it is done with love.

 

[Grandpa]

I think you are still reading scripture as if it is written to us in this century, and you apply it well. The problem is that Moses was speaking to people of centuries ago who had lived in Egypt several hundred years. They were so ignorant of the one God that they created the golden calf. Imagine the people of your church deciding they needed a gold calf! So what they heard about the law and what you hear with your background and education is very different. I think what we need to understand of the law given is that it is the way our world works for good, there was no concept of legalism at that time.

Paul spoke to a world closer to us, but still it was a different world. The message of Christ was closer to a message for us, that is not to use fleshly heartless obedience but to understand the spirit of God in the law and obey that. The spirit of the law includes the legalistic law, but it is done with love.

This was pretty good until the last sentence.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

These are "legalistic" laws but they are described as a shadow of what Christianity is to become.

So the Spirit of the law does not include the legalistic law. The legalistic law is a shadow of the spirit of the law.

No one can say that some of the "legalistic" law is done away while some of the "legalistic" law is still in place because the Lord Jesus said NOT ONE Jot or Tittle would fall from the law until ALL was fulfilled.

That means either ALL of the "legalistic" law is here for you to work at OR ALL of the "legalistic" law has been fulfilled.

You don't get to decide which "legalistic" laws are your favorites and which ones you don't care to work at. ALL is fulfilled or NOT ONE Jot or tittle has fallen.

Its pretty easy to understand in this context. It gets REALLY confusing when people try to split up the law and say this was fulfilled but this wasn't. That's not what the Lord said. ALL was fulfilled or NOT ONE jot or tittle has fallen.

 

[Tim416]

I think you are still reading scripture as if it is written to us in this century, and you apply it well. The problem is that Moses was speaking to people of centuries ago who had lived in Egypt several hundred years. They were so ignorant of the one God that they created the golden calf. Imagine the people of your church deciding they needed a gold calf! So what they heard about the law and what you hear with your background and education is very different. I think what we need to understand of the law given is that it is the way our world works for good, there was no concept of legalism at that time.

Paul spoke to a world closer to us, but still it was a different world. The message of Christ was closer to a message for us, that is not to use fleshly heartless obedience but to understand the spirit of God in the law and obey that. The spirit of the law includes the legalistic law, but it is done with love.

Are you saying the legalistic law is applicable for believers? The law God desires believers to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts under the new covenant, and:
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

What is in your mind you in your mind must know, and the law in your heart must give you heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. You cannot hide form what is in your most inward parts. I for example, have never been conscious of sin for eating food that was, under the old covenant unclean.

My apologies if that is not what you were stating, but I assumed you were, due to writing the Spirit of the law includes the legalistic law