Accurately handling what rightly dividing means.

[John146]

My pet peeve is when people use the Bible to give their own ideas biblical authority.
It usually begins with, "God's word says..." and then you get their twisted opinion, which typically
has little or nothing to do with the misused scripture. Thus wrongly handling...

I have a pet peeve as well. People looking up other versions until they find one that best suits them. I wonder if that's what God intended?

 

[Hevosmies]

This interpretation is patently false. "Accurately handling" is close but "properly interpreting" would be even better. Scripture needs to be interpreted properly, comparing Scripture with Scripture (which means ignoring or setting aside many man-made teachings).

As you can see in 2 Tim 2:15, the first essential is diligent study. Modern Bible versions have expunged the word *study* but how can anyone interpret Scripture without studying it diligently?

But the second component goes even further. The image of the workman that does not need to be ashamed can be likened to the image of a miner, who exerts himself heart and soul, with a lot of diligence and sweat, in order to pull out some nugget from the earth. Scripture is a goldmine, which yields gold to the ones who work hard -- labor -- in the Word.

Unfortunately, the majority of Christians are never taught -- step by step -- how to study the Bible, using all available helps. That should be a component of discipling, but even discipling as such is generally neglected. Therefore we see so much spiritual confusion displayed on Christian forums (CC included).

Tell us brother Nehemiah, what would you suggest on "how to study the Bible"? Whats the best way(s).

 

[Hevosmies]

I have a pet peeve as well. People looking up other versions until they find one that best suits them. I wonder if that's what God intended?

Believe it or not John, I AGREE with you on this one too! I call it "version shopping". When you listen to a sermon and the pastor uses multiple translations and quotes from each one, to find one thats fits his idea the best, I think something is up!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You have made me laugh out. Ugh at me not being clear, lol. Succinctly, I was trying to pick y'alls brains as to what 2 Timothy's verse means to you. In KJV it says rightly divide, and NASB says rightly handling.

apparently, that is the only version of the Bible that actually says that

as that bothersome article I posted yesterday explains in some detail and with (I believe) accuracy

actually, that would be what that verse means to me...but you have to read and study in context to get that..and I posted the article because my view is different from the usual renditions..guess I was supporting my view that way but I know how it goes down around here

as has been aptly illustrated in your thread, too many people take it to mean 'I am right and you are wrong'

I mean honestly! you simply cannot have 1200 right dividings of the same thing and you cannot make a doctrine out of one verse!

(shrugs)

oh yipee! Photoshop just finished downloading on my new PC without error and in record time!...not part of my answer

 

[CharliRenee]

apparently, that is the only version of the Bible that actually says that

as that bothersome article I posted yesterday explains in some detail and with (I believe) accuracy

actually, that would be what that verse means to me...but you have to read and study in context to get that..and I posted the article because my view is different from the usual renditions..guess I was supporting my view that way but I know how it goes down around here

as has been aptly illustrated in your thread, too many people take it to mean 'I am right and you are wrong'

I mean honestly! you simply cannot have 1200 right dividings of the same thing and you cannot make a doctrine out of one verse!

(shrugs)

oh yipee! Photoshop just finished downloading on my new PC without error and in record time!...not part of my answer

You make a lot of sense to me,

 

[John146]

apparently, that is the only version of the Bible that actually says that

as that bothersome article I posted yesterday explains in some detail and with (I believe) accuracy

One book stands alone!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You make a lot of sense to me,

well thank you

and I didn't even have to bang my head on the wall either

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am reposting the following from the article I linked to yesterday because it explains clearly what Paul was getting at ..albeit and notwithstanding (and all the other legal words), that does not change the fact the KJ is the only one to use the language that it does. I don't have a problem with that, but unfortunately, it is often take the wrong way

I will further add that folks who say the KJ is the only accurate translation, OR actually 'inspired' will have a prejudice towards using that version. HOWEVER, there is nothing in the original language to entertain the notion of dividing the word. doing so, is a fallacy and leads to incorrect understanding

I have no hope of changing anyone's viewpoint, but for those who are not sure, understand that scripture is not open to opinions but must be understood contextually and within the rest of what is written and the accepted use of certain words to mean certain things and that without a doctrines being made on one verse or non-essential item that one person has decided is a salvic issue

Textual Analysis

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

Now we get to the crux of this topic. In verse 15 the KJV has Paul telling Timothy to study that he might be approved of by God, a workman (G2040 ergatés) which is a reference back to verses 5 and 6, this word ergatés is elsewhere used as “field workers”, “laborers”, etc., who should not be ashamed, and rightly dividing (G3718orthotomeō) the word of truth. The Greek word orthotomeō only appears once in the New Testament. The Strong’s Concordance defines it like this:

1. to cut straight, to cut straight ways A to proceed on straight paths, hold a straight course, equiv. to doing right
2. to make straight and smooth, to handle aright, to teach the truth directly and correctly

One can only guess why the KJV translators chose the phrase “rightly dividing” instead of “rightly teach” or “cutting straight”, I would suggest that in 1611 “rightly dividing” might have had a different meaning than how we use it today. Given the context of this verse and the surrounding text, I think that it is appropriate that we closely examine the true meaning of this phrase.
Although the word orthotomeō was not used, a similar message was given by John the Baptist when he quoted Isaiah by stating “Make straight the way of the Lord” in John 1:23. John used the word G3588 euthunó, which means:

1. to make straight, level, plain
2. to lead or guide straight, to keep straight or direct: A of the steersman or helmsman of a ship B of a charioteer

So, we have two people who are both giving instruction make a clear and straight path. The meanings are identical with the same intention in mind. They are in effect stating that no obstacle should be allowed to get in the way of what is truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have a pet peeve as well. People looking up other versions until they find one that best suits them. I wonder if that's what God intended?

So i guess it is better to give them one written in a language no one speaks any more, so unless they are shown what it says they have no idea

Sounds like a good way for pastors to control their congregation, or at the least, denomination co trol of the scripture to the world.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

and here is more regarding the word divide

NOTE: it does NOT mean divide up the word. that is totally false and not at all helpful

here it is:

I would like to attempt to point a few things concerning what is out of context:

1. The idea of separating or parsing scripture is not in context.
2. There is no mention of discerning what is prophetic vs what is a mystery, or discerning what is for the church vs what is for the Jews, etc.
3. When Paul wrote this, the only scripture that could have been parsed would have been what we call the Old Testament, the gospels and epistles did not exist as collective body of work at that time.
4. If the word orthotomeō truly meant to parse or separate, we should expect to find it, or a word of the same common root when the words divide, divided or dividing are used elsewhere in scripture.

On the fourth point I would like to expound a bit. Let’s look at where derivations of the word divide appear elsewhere in the King James and see what Greek word was used for its transliteration:

Dividing

• 1 Corinthians 12:11 - G1244 diaireó - def: I divide into parts, cut asunder, distribute. The context of this passage definitely deals with something being separated or parsed, the gifts of the Holy Spirit among the body of Christ.
• Hebrew 4:12 - G3311 merismos - def: (a) a distributing, a distribution, (b) a parting, dividing, severance, separation. The topic of this passage also deals with separating, the two-edged sword that separates the spirit and soul, joints and marrow.

Divide

• Luke 12:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. This passage involves the dividing of inheritance.
• Luke 22:17 - G1266 diamerizó - def: I divide up into parts, break up; I distribute. The breaking of the bread at the last supper.

Divided

• 1 Corinthians 1:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. This passage involves whether or not the body of Christ is divided.
• Matthew 12:25, 26 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Refers to divided kingdoms.
• Matthew 25:32 - G873 aphorizó - def: I rail off, separate, place apart. This deals with the separation of the sheep.
• Mark 3:24-26 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Same as Matthew 12:25, 26
• Mark 6:41 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Dividing of the loaves and fishes.
• Luke 11:17, 18 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Same as Matthew 12:25, 26
• Luke 12:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. In regards to dividing inheritance.
• Luke 12:53 - G1266 diamerizó - def: I divide up into parts, break up; I distribute.In regards to a house (family) that is divided within itself.
• Luke 15:12 - G1244 diaireó - def: I divide into parts, cut asunder, distribute. The story of the prodigal son’s inheritance.
• Acts 13:19 - G2624 katakléronomeó - def: I give as an inheritance, distribute by lot. Paul recounted the the dividing up of the promise land in the synagogue.
• Acts 14:4 - G4977 schizó - def: I rend, divide asunder, cleave. Speaking of the people of Iconium being divided between the apostles and the Jews.
• Acts 23:7 - G4977 schizó - def: I rend, divide asunder, cleave. The dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
• Revelation 16:19 - G1096 ginomai - def: I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen. Talking about Babylon splitting into three parts.

Divideth

• Luke 11:22 - G1239 diadidómi - def: I offer here and there, distribute, divide, hand over. This regards the spoils taken by the stronger man.

 

[John146]

So i guess it is better to give them one written in a language no one speaks any more, so unless they are shown what it says they have no idea

Sounds like a good way for pastors to control their congregation, or at the least, denomination co trol of the scripture to the world.

The way I see modern pastors today controlling their congregation is through their "extensive knowledge" of Greek and Hebrew, when it comes down to it, do not speak either, but can read out of a commentary or lexicon. Who's to question a pastor referring back to the Greek? Please...

Study...I don't speak in the way that the KJV was written. I'd be more correct in grammar if I did. But this doesn't stop me from studying the words through context and first mention for comprehension.

 

[John146]

and here is more regarding the word divide

NOTE: it does NOT mean divide up the word. that is totally false and not at all helpful

here it is:

I would like to attempt to point a few things concerning what is out of context:

1. The idea of separating or parsing scripture is not in context.
2. There is no mention of discerning what is prophetic vs what is a mystery, or discerning what is for the church vs what is for the Jews, etc.
3. When Paul wrote this, the only scripture that could have been parsed would have been what we call the Old Testament, the gospels and epistles did not exist as collective body of work at that time.
4. If the word orthotomeō truly meant to parse or separate, we should expect to find it, or a word of the same common root when the words divide, divided or dividing are used elsewhere in scripture.

On the fourth point I would like to expound a bit. Let’s look at where derivations of the word divide appear elsewhere in the King James and see what Greek word was used for its transliteration:

Dividing

• 1 Corinthians 12:11 - G1244 diaireó - def: I divide into parts, cut asunder, distribute. The context of this passage definitely deals with something being separated or parsed, the gifts of the Holy Spirit among the body of Christ.
• Hebrew 4:12 - G3311 merismos - def: (a) a distributing, a distribution, (b) a parting, dividing, severance, separation. The topic of this passage also deals with separating, the two-edged sword that separates the spirit and soul, joints and marrow.

Divide

• Luke 12:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. This passage involves the dividing of inheritance.
• Luke 22:17 - G1266 diamerizó - def: I divide up into parts, break up; I distribute. The breaking of the bread at the last supper.

Divided

• 1 Corinthians 1:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. This passage involves whether or not the body of Christ is divided.
• Matthew 12:25, 26 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Refers to divided kingdoms.
• Matthew 25:32 - G873 aphorizó - def: I rail off, separate, place apart. This deals with the separation of the sheep.
• Mark 3:24-26 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Same as Matthew 12:25, 26
• Mark 6:41 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Dividing of the loaves and fishes.
• Luke 11:17, 18 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. Same as Matthew 12:25, 26
• Luke 12:13 - G3307 merizó - def: I divide into parts, divide, part, share, distribute; mid: I share, take part in a partitioning; I distract. In regards to dividing inheritance.
• Luke 12:53 - G1266 diamerizó - def: I divide up into parts, break up; I distribute.In regards to a house (family) that is divided within itself.
• Luke 15:12 - G1244 diaireó - def: I divide into parts, cut asunder, distribute. The story of the prodigal son’s inheritance.
• Acts 13:19 - G2624 katakléronomeó - def: I give as an inheritance, distribute by lot. Paul recounted the the dividing up of the promise land in the synagogue.
• Acts 14:4 - G4977 schizó - def: I rend, divide asunder, cleave. Speaking of the people of Iconium being divided between the apostles and the Jews.
• Acts 23:7 - G4977 schizó - def: I rend, divide asunder, cleave. The dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
• Revelation 16:19 - G1096 ginomai - def: I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen. Talking about Babylon splitting into three parts.

Divideth

• Luke 11:22 - G1239 diadidómi - def: I offer here and there, distribute, divide, hand over. This regards the spoils taken by the stronger man.

When reading a passage from Scripture, do you take notice of whom God is speaking and the directions He's giving to that audience? If you do, you're rightly dividing the word of truth. You're making divisions. You're separating the word God gave to that audience with the word He has given to another audience. Simple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The way I see modern pastors today controlling their congregation is through their "extensive knowledge" of Greek and Hebrew, when it comes down to it, do not speak either, but can read out of a commentary or lexicon. Who's to question a pastor referring back to the Greek? Please...

Study...I don't speak in the way that the KJV was written. I'd be more correct in grammar if I did. But this doesn't stop me from studying the words through context and first mention for comprehension.

So 2 wrongs make a right?

 

[obedienttogod]

Romans 11:6 And if by grace then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work.

Believing in God is through an act of faith, which is not a form of work. Therefore, to have other gods before the One true God, would also be not a work, but an action of faith.

So any scripture referring to Grace in this matter is worthless. God could however have MERCY, but as a direct Command from a jealous God, good luck with that!!

 

[John146]

Believing in God is through an act of faith, which is not a form of work. Therefore, to have other gods before the One true God, would also be not a work, but an action of faith.

So any scripture referring to Grace in this matter is worthless. God could however have MERCY, but as a direct Command from a jealous God, good luck with that!!

That's exactly what Romans 11 is pointing to are the works of the law.

 

[Locutus]

Problem I see in a lot of doctrine over the "age" is that of multiplication.

 

[obedienttogod]

That's exactly what Romans 11 is pointing to are the works of the law.

Before I continue more into my thoughts here, are YOU claiming one could worship Satan, and by the Grace of God it overlooks past that...as it would view the Satan worshiper as someone who worships Yahweh?

Because, to worship Satan (or any other idol god), is to place them above Yahweh!!

And I cannot for the life of me, see how Grace would be applied in such a matter!!

To put gods before God (Yahweh), means your faith is not first and foremost in Yahweh, but the other gods.

So, how does the Mercy and Grace of Yahweh apply in such a matter?

This is why hyper grace is like used toilet paper. It's full of something none of us want our hands on!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's exactly what Romans 11 is pointing to are the works of the law.

No, romans is talking anout any work period

Work is done to earn a wage or reward, so it is not the same as grace, which is not earned but freely recieved in faith apart from works.

 

[John146]

Before I continue more into my thoughts here, are YOU claiming one could worship Satan, and by the Grace of God it overlooks past that...as it would view the Satan worshiper as someone who worships Yahweh?

Because, to worship Satan (or any other idol god), is to place them above Yahweh!!

And I cannot for the life of me, see how Grace would be applied in such a matter!!

To put gods before God (Yahweh), means your faith is not first and foremost in Yahweh, but the other gods.

So, how does the Mercy and Grace of Yahweh apply in such a matter?

This is why hyper grace is like used toilet paper. It's full of something none of us want our hands on!!

Which of your sins to Christ die for? Did He die for all sins or just certain sins?

 

[John146]

No, romans is talking anout any work period

Work is done to earn a wage or reward, so it is not the same as grace, which is not earned but freely recieved in faith apart from works.

Agreed, but I think Romans 11 is specifically talking about the Jews and the law. For by the works of the law shall no man be justified in his sight.