Not By Works

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Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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You call the plan of salvation foolish?

Yes we do die before we are born again, we die to self effort of trying to earn salvation and accept Jesus as Savior!

You are really mixing up scripture very badly, mixing what is to come (heaven) with what is given in the here and now.

…7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him.

This ^^^^^^ is for those who have been born again/regenerated/redeemed spiritually in Him on this planet
I did not ever called the plan of salvation as "foolish". And for your sake, here"s where you can find it...understand and humbly accept the message.

The Resurrection of Christ Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. The Resurrection of the Dead But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame. The Resurrection Body But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-58

Btw, can you explain to me what is JUSTIFICATION and what is SALVATION?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Rose....I am thankful to the God of heaven for the simplicity in Christ being revealed unto you...I remember when you first came in here and I could see the struggle in your words and NOW you belt truth out and can SEE the evident truth....and YOU KNOW that none of us are against works.....but rather are for the proper perspective of works and how they relate to one who has been saved by faith and faith alone....

Keep swinging sister....those who devalue Christ, his power, promises and work on our behalf are numerous...rank and file they assault the truth daily!
Hi Dcon...
This is what I do not get...It has been stated time and time again that we ALL know works will follow because God has set them before us...Yet some are saying that works are added to us being saved...There are billions of people out there who are disabled , cannot move yet are saved , there are people out there who gave their life to Christ this very day/night , and died on their deathbed without doing one work , they were saved because they believed on the LORD Jesus Christ from their heart...
Why are some peoples minds set on the word work instead of Grace , we would all be going to hell if it was not for the grace of God , there is only Joy in our Lord as we walk with Him , not fear , for He has given us a sound mind , not a spirit of fear...
If I woke every morning thinking I could lose my Salvation , I would be living in fear , anyway , that`s what happens when one does not believe on the promises of God , they live in their own imaginations...xox...
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Hi Dcon...
This is what I do not get...It has been stated time and time again that we ALL know works will follow because God has set them before us...Yet some are saying that works are added to us being saved...There are billions of people out there who are disabled , cannot move yet are saved , there are people out there who gave their life to Christ this very day/night , and died on their deathbed without doing one work , they were saved because they believed on the LORD Jesus Christ from their heart...
Why are some peoples minds set on the word work instead of Grace , we would all be going to hell if it was not for the grace of God , there is only Joy in our Lord as we walk with Him , not fear , for He has given us a sound mind , not a spirit of fear...
If I woke every morning thinking I could lose my Salvation , I would be living in fear , anyway , that`s what happens when one does not believe on the promises of God , they live in their own imaginations...xox...
AMEN ROSE....simple truth hey......eternal security in Christ..........
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Hi Dcon...
This is what I do not get...It has been stated time and time again that we ALL know works will follow because God has set them before us...Yet some are saying that works are added to us being saved...There are billions of people out there who are disabled , cannot move yet are saved , there are people out there who gave their life to Christ this very day/night , and died on their deathbed without doing one work , they were saved because they believed on the LORD Jesus Christ from their heart...
Why are some peoples minds set on the word work instead of Grace , we would all be going to hell if it was not for the grace of God , there is only Joy in our Lord as we walk with Him , not fear , for He has given us a sound mind , not a spirit of fear...
If I woke every morning thinking I could lose my Salvation , I would be living in fear , anyway , that`s what happens when one does not believe on the promises of God , they live in their own imaginations...xox...
Take note: "WITH GOD" nothing is impossible. Matthew 19:16-30

If you are led by the Spirit then you are a son of God, an instrument of His righteousness, a fellow worker of God who do not receive God's grace in vain (2 corinthians 6:1), a worthy and faithful servant of God (Matthew 25:14-30) created IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

...Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Romans 8:1-17

...Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. Romans 6:13-14
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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Paul said that we have to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, HOLY and ACCEPTABLE to God which is our SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. (1 Corinthians 12:1) and then goes on to teach about the BODY OF CHRIST and spiritual gifts.

...Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 john 3:16) That is why Paul said;

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, BUT ALSO TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

So we see here that just as Jesus suffered when He sacrificed Himself in obedience to GOD, His apostles and the prophets before them also suffered and were killed. Did they suffer and died for doing good because of their obedience to the faith?

...It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:17-18

...Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I FILL UP IN MY FLESH WHAT IS STILL LACKING IN REGARD TO CHRIST'S AFFLICTIONS, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Colossians 1:24

They suffered and laboured for our sake and not for their own salvation but for ours, we reap the benefits of their labour and that's what those in the body of Christ do, they work for the salvation of the unbelievers for they also were once unbelievers who benefited from the Labour of those before them. IOW "paying it forward."

...“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.” John 4:34-38

I would therefore say and believe that; ...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead. James 2:26

And regarding eternal security, I still can't find it in the bible but eternal salvation IN CHRIST JESUS is our LIVING HOPE.

...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED. BUT HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what WE DO NOT YET HAVE, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:23-25
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Roman 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: 7because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: 8and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
https://www.biblehub.com/asv/romans/8.htm

Contrast between the corruptible seed (the flesh, knowledge of good and evil) and the incorruptible seed (Jesus, the Tree of Life)

Peter states right here `born again`is an earthly real time event

23for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
1Peter 1:23

This seed cannot be corrupted or perish.
We were speaking of the incorruptible seed.
Although very interesting,,,Romans 8 has nothing to do with this...at least not that I can see.

1 Peter 1:23 instead, does speak to this.
Let's look at it:

3Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
14As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FORI AM HOLY.”



17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;
18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers,
19but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
20For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
21who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.



22Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,
23for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is,through the living and enduring word of God.


It's important to post scripture because this is what we base our beliefs on.

What does the above tell us?

1. We are to prepare our minds for action when Jesus is revealed to us.

2. We are to be obedient children.

3. We are to be holy in all our behavior.

4. Why? Because God is holy and we are made in His image.

5. We will be judged by our works and, as even Paul stated, we are to continue in our salvation with fear (respect) and trembling.

6. We were not redeemed with perishable things, but with blood.

7. Our faith and hope are in God.

8. We have purified our souls with obedience to the turth .... love for our brethren.

9. We have been born again not of perishable seed, but of imperishable.


What is imperishable?
The Word of God.
It is the Word of God which cannot be corrupted and which cannot perish.
It is NOT referring to us, as is often stated here. Or, at least, that's what is made to be understood.
This is repeated in verse 25. . . The word of the Lord will abide forever.


We can still be corrupted while on this earth...

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I did not ever called the plan of salvation as "foolish". And for your sake, here"s where you can find it...understand and humbly accept the message.

The Resurrection of Christ Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. The Resurrection of the Dead But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame. The Resurrection Body But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-58

Btw, can you explain to me what is JUSTIFICATION and what is SALVATION?
I hope you get an answer.
I've been asking for a long time now.
If the difference was truly known...we'd have nothing to argue about.
There is no problem with justification...we all agree on that.
The problem is with sanctification....and now I hear that we are "positionally" sanctified...
Since the N.T. uses this word in different tenses,,,,it was necessary to create a meaning for it...
just as it was necessary to create a meaning for the Trinity (or Godhead).
All churches agree with the meaning except those that have accepted the doctrine of OSAS, which was not even in existence before the reformation in 1,500 AD.

An interesting fact in and of itself.
The Early Church Fathers...the same ones that PUT THE BIBLE TOGETHER,
did NOT believe in OSAS and they were taught by the Apostles.

I hear many times that the same men who gathered the letters and gospels and turned them into our present day New Testament...are the same ones who were not inspired by God in their doctrinal beliefs.

Amazing.
 
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I have never in my life seen one so dead set on discrediting the word of God to espouse some false dogma that makes salvation some losable, maintained drivel......and then to twist the word so far out of whack while denying verb tense, verbiage and context in complete ignorance as some in this thread do........
 
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BOTH same the exact same thing.......THE SEED WE HAVE BEEN BORN OF BY THE WORD OF GOD IS IMPERISHABLE/INCORRUPTIBLE

New American Standard Bible
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

King James Bible
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


THOSE who are deceivers WILL GO TO AN AND ALL LENGTHS to corrupt the word of GOD to fit their dogma....POST 83386 is a prime example of this....especially the last part.........so so deceptive and false......
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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Some of us are interested in verb tense and verbiage.

Some of us are interested in getting to heaven...
Jesus' words do not need verb tenses and verbiage.

And on our way there...we'd like to avoid others from becoming lost because of disobedience to God because it sounds on this thread as if it is not too important.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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BOTH same the exact same thing.......THE SEED WE HAVE BEEN BORN OF BY THE WORD OF GOD IS IMPERISHABLE/INCORRUPTIBLE

New American Standard Bible
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

King James Bible
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


THOSE who are deceivers WILL GO TO AN AND ALL LENGTHS to corrupt the word of GOD to fit their dogma....POST 83386 is a prime example of this....especially the last part.........so so deceptive and false......
Plainly state WHAT is imperishable.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I hope you get an answer.
I've been asking for a long time now.
If the difference was truly known...we'd have nothing to argue about.
There is no problem with justification...we all agree on that.
The problem is with sanctification....and now I hear that we are "positionally" sanctified...
Since the N.T. uses this word in different tenses,,,,it was necessary to create a meaning for it...
just as it was necessary to create a meaning for the Trinity (or Godhead).
All churches agree with the meaning except those that have accepted the doctrine of OSAS, which was not even in existence before the reformation in 1,500 AD.

An interesting fact in and of itself.
The Early Church Fathers...the same ones that PUT THE BIBLE TOGETHER,
did NOT believe in OSAS and they were taught by the Apostles.

I hear many times that the same men who gathered the letters and gospels and turned them into our present day New Testament...are the same ones who were not inspired by God in their doctrinal beliefs.

Amazing.
The early church Father's do not set the standard and it is idiotic to follow anything they say over the word which overrides any and all opinions by men.....and it teaches eternal security for those HONEST with it's pages and not dead set on Catholic dogma....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Some of us are interested in verb tense and verbiage.

Some of us are interested in getting to heaven...
Jesus' words do not need verb tenses and verbiage.

And on our way there...we'd like to avoid others from becoming lost because of disobedience to God because it sounds on this thread as if it is not too important.
God inspired the verb tense and verbiage.......and that is exactly why you miss the mark with your self saving false dogma
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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The early church Father's do not set the standard and it is idiotic to follow anything they say over the word which overrides any and all opinions by men.....and it teaches eternal security for those HONEST with it's pages and not dead set on Catholic dogma....
The ECF put the New Testament together and learned from the Apostles.
They are not to be considered as having "mere opinion by men".
They did NOT believe in eternal security with no conditions and I DO believe they knew a lot more than John Calvin did.

Anyone here can study the history of the Christian church.

And I do remind you that I'm not catholic, but I love my born again catholic brothers in Christ.
 

GodsGrace101

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Sep 14, 2018
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I have and anyone with common sense and honesty can see it is the SEED we have BEEN BORN OF BY the word of GOD which is INCORRUPTIBLE....

Your dishonesty seems to permeate every aspect.....
So do you agree that the seed is the Word of God?
Do you agree that it is the Word of God that is incorruptible?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I have and anyone with common sense and honesty can see it is the SEED we have BEEN BORN OF BY the word of GOD which is INCORRUPTIBLE....

Your dishonesty seems to permeate every aspect.....
Please read post 83,386 again.....
I stated that the incorruptible is the word of God.
Am I wrong...? Please show it if I am.

And I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling me dishonest just because I don't agree with you because you're not correct.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The ECF put the New Testament together and learned from the Apostles.
They are not to be considered as having "mere opinion by men".
They did NOT believe in eternal security with no conditions and I DO believe they knew a lot more than John Calvin did.

Anyone here can study the history of the Christian church.

And I do remind you that I'm not catholic, but I love my born again catholic brothers in Christ.
HAHAHHAHAHA that is hilariously sad........they have nothing but opinion and numerous sources on here have cited just as many as you do that believed in and taught eternal security....either way I could care less....the bible is clear on the subject.....and it does not teach what you peddle
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Please read post 83,386 again.....
I stated that the incorruptible is the word of God.
Am I wrong...? Please show it if I am.

And I'd appreciate it if you stopped calling me dishonest just because I don't agree with you because you're not correct.
We have already determined you are dishonest Fran by accusing me of never posting scripture....and you took a verse in that post and made it say something it does not say to prove a point not valid........most who are not deceived can see this trait as plain as day
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
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HAHAHHAHAHA that is hilariously sad........they have nothing but opinion and numerous sources on here have cited just as many as you do that believed in and taught eternal security....either way I could care less....the bible is clear on the subject.....and it does not teach what you peddle
Explain 2 Peter 2:20-22
Explain Mathew 24:13
Explain Mathew 5:13
Explain Romans 11:22

It's a start.