It was unfair to mankind

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gerjozen

Member
#1
Feb 5, 2015
87
5
8
#1
The Bible considers everyone being born into this world, a sinner. Even the new born baby who haven't done any wrong is considered a sinner (Psa.51:5),
Now wasn't it unfair that we were made sinners because of one man, Adam. It was not us who sinned but he, Adam. We became sinners because we carry Adam's corrupted sinful blood in our veins. Just think of it, my father committed a crime, but his children is held responsible for it and must suffer the punishment of death. That's totally unfair. God knew that it was unfair that's why He decided to send His Son to take away that old debt, Adam's sin that we got by inheritance. "There is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the WORLD, not the righteous, not the good, but the sinful world. The Bible speaks of our Old Sin. Christ dealt with our OLD Inherited Sin which was un-wilfully placed on us, that debt was CANCELLED OUT. But we are guilty of personal sin. A baby's inherited sin from Adam is cancelled on the cross and since they haven;t committed any personal, they get saved.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#2
#2
I believe it is more likely that babies get saved.....

God can even reach us in the womb.....


luke 1
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.



I say it is unfair to Christ that He had to come do what we could not.... and then pay what we can not... to give us what we don't deserve.....


and even now we need Him desperately to justify us because without Him we deserve punishment for much more than just 1 sin
 
G

gerjozen

Member
#3
Feb 5, 2015
87
5
8
#3
NoNameMcgee said:
I believe it is more likely that babies get saved.....

God can even reach us in the womb.....


luke 1
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.



I say it is unfair to Christ that He had to come do what we could not.... and then pay what we can not... to give us what we don't deserve.....


and even now we need Him desperately to justify us because without Him we deserve punishment for much more than just 1 sin
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Exactly brother, as it was unfair to Christ, so it was unfair to mankind to be made un-wilful sinners by no choice, thats why God sent His Son to make things right
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#4
#4
God has always been more than fair to me...😅

So I guess we disagree...


Jesus is overwhelming mercy on a wicked people.... not "making things right"...
 
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#5
Sep 17, 2018
4,102
3,200
113
#5
gerjozen said:
The Bible considers everyone being born into this world, a sinner. Even the new born baby who haven't done any wrong is considered a sinner (Psa.51:5),
Now wasn't it unfair that we were made sinners because of one man, Adam. It was not us who sinned but he, Adam. We became sinners because we carry Adam's corrupted sinful blood in our veins. Just think of it, my father committed a crime, but his children is held responsible for it and must suffer the punishment of death. That's totally unfair. God knew that it was unfair that's why He decided to send His Son to take away that old debt, Adam's sin that we got by inheritance. "There is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the WORLD, not the righteous, not the good, but the sinful world. The Bible speaks of our Old Sin. Christ dealt with our OLD Inherited Sin which was un-wilfully placed on us, that debt was CANCELLED OUT. But we are guilty of personal sin. A baby's inherited sin from Adam is cancelled on the cross and since they haven;t committed any personal, they get saved.
Click to expand...
I have actually taken this sort of thought much further. To as far as i can and the question it ultimately poses is, essentially, unanswerable and potentially destructive to faith. My goal is not to discourage peoples faith, nor be attacked by people who 'think' they have the answer and will criticize me for even thinking it, so i won't post it. But your question can go deeper.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#6
Dec 9, 2011
14,144
1,806
113
#6
gerjozen said:
The Bible considers everyone being born into this world, a sinner.
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sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law and because sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law,a person Becomes aware that they are sinning.
GOD Is fair and HE looks at the heart/motives.
 
B

blueluna5

Well-known member
#7
Jul 30, 2018
669
401
63
#7
Time is relative & a physical property.

Imagine that everything happened at the same time. You were born alongside of Adam. Have you never sinned? A person can only sin as much as their understanding allows. So obviously an adult can have much greater sins than a child. But in God's eyes we're all children. And God desires to give us understanding.

So God was trying to fix a wrong in a sense, but it certainly wasn't fair for him to do. It was mercy.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#8
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,326
113
#8
Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#9
Jun 30, 2015
25,623
13,866
113
#9
'Fair' is me paying the penalty for my own sin.

I'm good with 'unfair'.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#10
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#10
Exactly why faith, salvation and justification are a free GIFT in Christ...........and there is evidence that babies, children and those mentally incapable of making a conscience decision are safe under the blood until they reach a point where they understand their nature
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#11
Mar 13, 2014
42,665
17,120
113
69
Tennessee
#11
gerjozen said:
The Bible considers everyone being born into this world, a sinner. Even the new born baby who haven't done any wrong is considered a sinner (Psa.51:5),
Now wasn't it unfair that we were made sinners because of one man, Adam. It was not us who sinned but he, Adam. We became sinners because we carry Adam's corrupted sinful blood in our veins. Just think of it, my father committed a crime, but his children is held responsible for it and must suffer the punishment of death. That's totally unfair. God knew that it was unfair that's why He decided to send His Son to take away that old debt, Adam's sin that we got by inheritance. "There is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the WORLD, not the righteous, not the good, but the sinful world. The Bible speaks of our Old Sin. Christ dealt with our OLD Inherited Sin which was un-wilfully placed on us, that debt was CANCELLED OUT. But we are guilty of personal sin. A baby's inherited sin from Adam is cancelled on the cross and since they haven;t committed any personal, they get saved.
Click to expand...
Babies are born with a sinful nature but that is not the same as actually being born sinful. It is when the sinful nature is acted upon that sin results. In the verse you provided it is David who said that "surely I was sinful at birth". That was his own personal estimation and not necessarily God's.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#13
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#13
gerjozen said:
The Bible considers everyone being born into this world, a sinner. Even the new born baby who haven't done any wrong is considered a sinner (Psa.51:5),
Now wasn't it unfair that we were made sinners because of one man, Adam. It was not us who sinned but he, Adam. We became sinners because we carry Adam's corrupted sinful blood in our veins must suffer the punishment of death. That's totally unfair. God knew that it was unfair that's why He decided to send His Son to take away that old debt, Adam's sin that we got by inheritance. "There is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the WORLD, not the righteous, not the good, but the sinful world. The Bible speaks of our Old Sin. Christ dealt with our OLD Inherited Sin which was un-wilfully placed on us, that debt was CANCELLED OUT. But we are guilty of personal sin. A baby's inherited sin from Adam is cancelled on the cross and since they haven;t committed any personal, they get saved.
Click to expand...
What you're teaching here has been believed for a long time, but its not true. Sin isn't inherited, but knowledge is and sin comes from knowing evil and thinking or doing it. Or from knowing to do good and not doing it.
And sin is forgiven by asking God for forgiveness and repenting.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#14
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
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#14
'sin' is definitely inherited, 'cain vs. able'...
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#15
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#15
oldethennew said:
'sin' is definitely inherited, 'cain vs. able'...
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The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16

Cain will be put to death for his own sin, not Adams.
 
G

gerjozen

Member
#16
Feb 5, 2015
87
5
8
#16
tourist said:
Babies are born with a sinful nature but that is not the same as actually being born sinful. It is when the sinful nature is acted upon that sin results. In the verse you provided it is David who said that "surely I was sinful at birth". That was his own personal estimation and not necessarily God's.
Click to expand...
By one man, 1st Adam, sin was brought into the world upon all men, by One Man, 2nd Adam, the sin that the 1st Adam brought upon us was removed from the world, ("There is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world") Its a mystery only if we can see it. The 1st Adam was sinless but became corrupted by sin. The 2nd Adam was sinless and NEVER sinned but was MADE a sinner when the sin of the world brought through 1st Adam was placed on Him. So what God through Christ is saying, I have removed, cancelled, forgiven your sin, "GO AND SIN NO MORE". But there's something God want's us to do for Him, believe with a heart of repentance in the sacrifice He made for us. Mercy = 2b given a 2nd chance. Grace = doing one a favor without expectation of return. God Chose to save us. I can only imagine why that devil is so pissed at us coz we got a 2nd chance, and he not. There's something very deep about what Adam told God about Eve.
 
G

gerjozen

Member
#17
Feb 5, 2015
87
5
8
#17
Journeyman said:
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16

Cain will be put to death for his own sin, not Adams.
Click to expand...
Rom.5:12
 
G

gerjozen

Member
#18
Feb 5, 2015
87
5
8
#18
gerjozen said:
Rom.5:12
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Thanks 4 that Scripture brother. Sounds fair right, every man must pay for his own crime. Acc to Scripture, the whole human race was made sinners un-wilfully by not having any choice. (That's inherited sin) But my personal sin is what I did by CHOICE. Scripture says that Levi paid tithes while yet in the loins of his great grandfather Abraham. The human race was in the loins of Adam when he sinned.
(Rom.5:12) So the whole human race was in the 2nd Adam when He paid the penalty of sin, but we need to accept God gracious gift
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#19
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#19
Once you realized, from Romans 5:12-19, how unfair it is that, as long as you are born into Adam, you have a sinful nature as a free gift without you doing anything. Also, this is a gift that you cannot let go merely by renouncing Adam, nor by doing good deeds, then you will understand what OSAS is really saying.

Jesus's gift of his righteousness to you is just as unfair. You did not do anything to gain what is his. Now, you did no sin, you knew no sin, and in you there is no sin. And people actually think you can lose this gift by the things you do, good or bad, when you cannot lose Adam's free gift by not doing evil/or doing good.
 
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seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#20
Dec 9, 2011
14,144
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#20
I know what you mean but everything that Is,came from GOD,but the devil has twisted It so then saying that the sinful nature Is a free gift can be misleading just say adam passed his sinful blood to the next man.
 
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