Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

It's not the winter here...or at least, it doesn't feel like it.
But we can't go by our feeling, can we?

So. OK. You believe faith alone saves you.

The N.T. proves you wrong.
Jesus said so and Paul said so.

Mathew 22:37-39 Jesus said:
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’
38“This is the great and foremost commandment.
39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’
40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”


Paul said it like this:
1 Corinthians 13:2
2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

It seems to me that to be saved we must have faith AND love.
Do you agree?

Wrong again...It is not that we loved him, but that he loved us and gave himself for us. It is faith alone that saves a man or woman eternally!!

Love is a process of growth and maturity...............and I am tired of the fact that you disregard the fact that JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW Covenant....HIS words MUST be viewed in the LIGHT of this truth!!

 

[Hevosmies]

I'd love to answer you H.

Then answer me!

I liked dcon's answer because by the end of it, I found PAUL struggled with the same stuff I do.
He proved his case from the Bible; looky here: Romans 7:15-25!

 

[dcontroversal]

You're funny D.
You have about 7 peas in a pod.
The same old peas declaring incorrect doctrine.

Since I've been here, I've seen MANY come and go that agree with me.
They just get tired of arguing with nonsense and leave after a while.
I'm more "tenacious".

I always have at least a few peas on my side....
Don't be so boastful...
I thought boasting in ones self was sinful?

You've NEVER heard me bring this up,,,but only scripture.
You like to talk about anything BUT scripture.

Proverbs 10:19
When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

Like God said of the wicked..though hand join in hand.....I could care less if 99% of the world's population agrees with you....it ill never change the truth that it is faith alone that saves a man or woman eternally!!!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wrong again, they were saved, there performance does not undo their salvation.

The did not live up to their potential in Christ, hence they fell away, it does not say they lost their salvation, especially when one considers this parable is about the soil that produces fruit not which one looses salvation.

Adding to the text.

Please let's discuss this. I had meant to, but was very busy this week.

So we're discussing Luke 8:13
You claim they were saved.

First of all, you're too concerned with performance. Odd, since you should NOT be and it would seem I'm the one that should be, but I don't mention this unless others do first. I TRULY am trusting in Jesus for my salvation and have no worries. Whereas, some here do and so must twist their scripture to agree with their very own theology.

Luke 8:13 does not mention performance. Please check it again.

1. What exactly did the fall away FROM, since you do agree that they fell away because it plainly says that.


2. It also plainly says, by JESUS BTW, that they believed FOR A WHILE and then fell away.
Now......IF belief is necessary for salvation....
And they believed ONLY FOR A WHILE
And then STOPPED BELIEVING
Are they still saved?

Can a person that does NOT BELIEVE be saved??

Luke 8:13 JESUS SAID.
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

 

[Hevosmies]

Since I've been here, I've seen MANY come and go that agree with me.
They just get tired of arguing with nonsense and leave after a while.
I'm more "tenacious".

You've showed up around the same time as me, so how many have left really!?

 

[dcontroversal]

Then answer me!

I liked dcon's answer because by the end of it, I found PAUL struggled with the same stuff I do.
He proved his case from the Bible; looky here: Romans 7:15-25!

The truth is the truth brother and in context there are no verses that teaches a losable salvation.........stay strong mate........she will twist what you say bro and then attempt to make the word say something it does not say...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Then answer me!

I liked dcon's answer because by the end of it, I found PAUL struggled with the same stuff I do.
He proved his case from the Bible; looky here: Romans 7:15-25!

I need to know how old you are.
Approx.
I used to teach our faith....it helps to know how old people asking questions are.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You've showed up around the same time as me, so how many have left really!?

People come and go H....
you must have noticed this.

 

[dcontroversal]

You've showed up around the same time as me, so how many have left really!?

She was here under another name in the past and was banned after attempting to get the thread shut down by means that were not very biblical....now that she is back I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt....every now and then she slides back to her old self..........

 

[GodsGrace101]

The truth is the truth brother and in context there are no verses that teaches a losable salvation.........stay strong mate........she will twist what you say bro and then attempt to make the word say something it does not say...

That's it D.

Send people to hell with your incorrect doctrine.

BTW,
You haven't explained the difference between:

OSAS
Eternal Security
Perseverance of the Saints


and Yes... it's PERSEVERANCE of the Saints

Wow. Persons on this thread really need to learn a lot.

 

[GodsGrace101]

She was here under another name in the past and was banned after attempting to get the thread shut down by means that were not very biblical....now that she is back I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt....every now and then she slides back to her old self..........

There is only one me D.

Just like there is only ONE GOD.
And ONE gospel message.
And ONE way to be saved forever.

 

[GodsGrace101]

No

No?

You don't believe Jesus and Paul taught that we are to love our neighbors?

 

[Hevosmies]

She was here under another name in the past and was banned after attempting to get the thread shut down by means that were not very biblical....now that she is back I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt....every now and then she slides back to her old self..........

Thanks for telling me.
Trying to get a thread taken down on a CHRISTIAN FORUM! With a BIBLICAL (Ephesians 2:9) title "Not of works" or "not by works"! Thats low!

Well that cat is out the bag.

Move along people! Nothing to see here.

 

[dcontroversal]

That's it D.

Send people to hell with your incorrect doctrine.

BTW,
You haven't explained the difference between:

OSAS
Eternal Security
Perseverance of the Saints


and Yes... it's PERSEVERANCE of the Saints

Wow. Persons on this thread really need to learn a lot.

Drivel Fran.....nothing but drivel in your post.........

 

[UnderGrace]

Its a rather silly comment to say how many sins hardens the heart isn't it. If you cannot understand that Jesus paid for all of your sins providing you live under a righteousness of faith in him, then there is really no [point to this. If you will not believe what the bible plainly states, it is obvious you will not believe me either:


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life john3:16

When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; John16:8&9

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed – a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: ‘The righteous will live by faith. rom1:17

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe rom3:21&22

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. rom10:4

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Gal2:15-17

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ – the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. phil3:9

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behaviour. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. col1:21-23

But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.’[h]

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:39-40

None of this teaches I will loose my salvation.

Yes you trivialize my question, on the number, duration, intensity ...why....... because you have no answer and you know it.

Also, much like Calvinism you create a morally ambiguous God who withdraws His adoption based on very nebulous......ie lacking any true form or limits of when that happens.

I have news for you God is not morally ambiguous.

If salvation could be lost He would tell us at exactly at what moment that would happen and how, just like He teaches exactly how to be born again in Him.

Hebrews actually affirms eternal life when probably understood.

Again I ask you do you even know what the reference to "willful sin" is.....until you do you will not understand the letter to the Hebrews.

 

[UnderGrace]

No?

You don't believe Jesus and Paul taught that we are to love our neighbors?

Wrong question

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks for telling me.
Trying to get a thread taken down on a CHRISTIAN FORUM! With a BIBLICAL (Ephesians 2:9) title "Not of works" or "not by works"! Thats low!

Well that cat is out the bag.

Move along people! Nothing to see here.

Go back and read through the thread..........the evidence is there...........it get's heated at times, but it went way beyond that in this particular case....

 

[calibob]

Then answer me!

I liked dcon's answer because by the end of it, I found PAUL struggled with the same stuff I do.
He proved his case from the Bible; looky here: Romans 7:15-25!

Don't stop there. Rather continueRomans 8 v 1-4.

 

[UnderGrace]

Like God said of the wicked..though hand join in hand.....I could care less if 99% of the world's population agrees with you....it ill never change the truth that it is faith alone that saves a man or woman eternally!!!!

Sounds like the broad path to me??

 

[unclesilas]

None of this teaches I will loose my salvation.

Yes you trivialize my question, on the number, duration, intensity ...why....... because you have no answer and you know it.

Also, much like Calvinism you create a morally ambiguous God who withdraws His adoption based on very nebulous......ie lacking any true form or limits of when that happens.

I have news for you God is not morally ambiguous.

If salvation could be lost He would tell us at exactly at what moment that would happen and how, just like He teaches exactly how to be born again in Him.

Hebrews actually affirms eternal life when probably understood.

Again I ask you do you even know what the reference to "willful sin" is.....until you do you will not understand the letter to the Hebrews.

If you want to shut your eyes and ears to the truth go ahead, the scriptures I quoted clearly show you have to continue believing. I am not interested in your excuses/reasoning in order to refuse to accept what the bible clearly states