Bring Back the Wise Men

[crossnote]

Lately you have been told to put away the Wise Men from your nativity scene because Jesus was about two years old when the wise men arrived to worship Him? Look at these passages again...

(Luk 2:1) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
(Luk 2:2) (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
(Luk 2:3) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
(Luk 2:4) And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
(Luk 2:5) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
(Luk 2:6) And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
(Luk 2:7) And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.


(Mat 2:1) Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
(Mat 2:2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
(Mat 2:3) When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
(Mat 2:4) And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
(Mat 2:5) And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
(Mat 2:6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
(Mat 2:7) Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
(Mat 2:8) And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
(Mat 2:9) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Ok, the way I see this is that Nazareth is about 98 miles to the north of Bethlehem, a huge journey by foot. At the birth of Jesus, Herod sends the wise men to Bethlehem from Jerusalem (a short distance) after demanding of the chief priests and scribes where this 'new born king' would be born. The star continues leading the wise men the way to Bethlehem and the child.

Question: Since Mary and Joseph came down to Bethlehem (98mi) to pay taxes, how come they are still there two or so years later, when their family is up in Nazareth? Naww, a natural reading of these passages will show that the Wise Men belong with Christmas and we can once again sing 'We Three Kings'.

The importance of this of course is not the nativity sets and Christmas (etc.) but the Scripture twisting that goes on through reinterpretation.

 

[tourist]

The thing about the wise men is that the exact number is unknown. Since men is plural there had to be more than one but is not conclusive that there were actually 3 wise men. Three gifts were presented by wise men so it was assumed that there had to be 3.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Well, I'm leaving them in my Nativity scene, for sure.

 

[tourist]

Well, I'm leaving them in my Nativity scene, for sure.

They were bringing little baby Jesus gifts. I would leave them in the Nativity scene too.

 

[John146]

Lately you have been told to put away the Wise Men from your nativity scene because Jesus was about two years old when the wise men arrived to worship Him? Look at these passages again...

(Luk 2:1) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
(Luk 2:2) (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
(Luk 2:3) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
(Luk 2:4) And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
(Luk 2:5) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
(Luk 2:6) And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
(Luk 2:7) And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.


(Mat 2:1) Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
(Mat 2:2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
(Mat 2:3) When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
(Mat 2:4) And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
(Mat 2:5) And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
(Mat 2:6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
(Mat 2:7) Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
(Mat 2:8) And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
(Mat 2:9) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Ok, the way I see this is that Nazareth is about 98 miles to the north of Bethlehem, a huge journey by foot. At the birth of Jesus, Herod sends the wise men to Bethlehem from Jerusalem (a short distance) after demanding of the chief priests and scribes where this 'new born king' would be born. The star continues leading the wise men the way to Bethlehem and the child.

Question: Since Mary and Joseph came down to Bethlehem (98mi) to pay taxes, how come they are still there two or so years later, when their family is up in Nazareth? Naww, a natural reading of these passages will show that the Wise Men belong with Christmas and we can once again sing 'We Three Kings'.

The importance of this of course is not the nativity sets and Christmas (etc.) but the Scripture twisting that goes on through reinterpretation.

Maybe this is why, not sure. Notice the wise men went into a house not a stable. Also, Herod had all the children aged 2 years and under according to the time of the visitation of the wise men.

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

 

[Dino246]

Maybe this is why, not sure. Notice the wise men went into a house not a stable. Also, Herod had all the children aged 2 years and under according to the time of the visitation of the wise men.

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

The "two years and under" can be understood in more than one way. It's most likely that the magi first noticed the star two years prior, and began making preparations. It's also possible that Herod extrapolated to be certain that he killed the right boy. Joseph only needed to register for the census in Bethlehem; there is no reason why he would stay there afterward any longer than for Mary to recover enough to travel. They probably stayed longer than most people, and would have found a house to stay in rather than the barn. We know they made the short trip to the temple in Jerusalem when Jesus was still an infant... probably just a month old. Bethlehem is closer than Nazareth, so they probably returned to Bethlehem and from there went to Egypt before returning to Nazareth.

 

[crossnote]

The thing about the wise men is that the exact number is unknown. Since men is plural there had to be more than one but is not conclusive that there were actually 3 wise men. Three gifts were presented by wise men so it was assumed that there had to be 3.

This OP has nothing to do with how many wisemen, but rather 'were they there at or near the time of Jesus' birth?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Three gifts were presented by wise men so it was assumed that there had to be 3.

That's a reasonable assumption. They could not have been an army of wise men, and even among the Magi of the east (anywhere from Arabia to Persia) there would have been only a few who believed God, then believed the Torah and perhaps the Tanakh, and then acted upon their faith in God and Christ.

What is really amazing and significant is that these Gentiles were the first to worship Christ as Messiah-King, while the Jewish chief priests and scribes failed to inform Herod that Jesus is God. They did this by omitting a significant portion of Micah 5:2. This was a foretaste of things to come.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; [whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.] (Micah 5:2)

4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel... (Matthew 2:4-6)

 

[crossnote]

Maybe this is why, not sure. Notice the wise men went into a house not a stable. Also, Herod had all the children aged 2 years and under according to the time of the visitation of the wise men.

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

Or Herod used it as an excuse, super cautious and was given to paranoia, read up about him. In any case the text seems pretty clear. Did the star 'hang out' for two years?

 

[pottersclay]

The sad part of this event is that we learn of the wise men, Herods response, shepards, inn keepers, but nothing is mentioned about Rabbis, cheif preists , Sadducees, Pharisees. Those who should of been there.

 

[JaumeJ]

Lately you have been told to put away the Wise Men from your nativity scene because Jesus was about two years old when the wise men arrived to worship Him? Look at these passages again...

(Luk 2:1) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
(Luk 2:2) (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
(Luk 2:3) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
(Luk 2:4) And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David
(Luk 2:5) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
(Luk 2:6) And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
(Luk 2:7) And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.


(Mat 2:1) Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
(Mat 2:2) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
(Mat 2:3) When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
(Mat 2:4) And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
(Mat 2:5) And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
(Mat 2:6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
(Mat 2:7) Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
(Mat 2:8) And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
(Mat 2:9) When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

Ok, the way I see this is that Nazareth is about 98 miles to the north of Bethlehem, a huge journey by foot. At the birth of Jesus, Herod sends the wise men to Bethlehem from Jerusalem (a short distance) after demanding of the chief priests and scribes where this 'new born king' would be born. The star continues leading the wise men the way to Bethlehem and the child.

Question: Since Mary and Joseph came down to Bethlehem (98mi) to pay taxes, how come they are still there two or so years later, when their family is up in Nazareth? Naww, a natural reading of these passages will show that the Wise Men belong with Christmas and we can once again sing 'We Three Kings'.

The importance of this of course is not the nativity sets and Christmas (etc.) but the Scripture twisting that goes on through reinterpretation.

This one takes the cake. They went to Bethlehame following His star to honor him. No one knows exactly how many there were so the early church gave it three for the three gifts, but this is not certain. As for the Holy Family remaining in the manger for two years...….wow, that is a good one. Anything to take away from the Word will some perpetrate

 

[Lanolin]

I recall I asked a similar question around christmas time cos I couldnt make sense of it. i hope some wise men here can provide the answers. Maybe its all under our noses al, this time and we just cant see it.

I will see if I can find that thread.

 

[tourist]

This OP has nothing to do with how many wisemen, but rather 'were they there at or near the time of Jesus' birth?

I only mentioned about the number because the way the OP was worded about 'We Three Kings'. The account of the Magi in Matthew 2:1-12 does not explicitly state the age of baby Jesus but rather only described him as a young child. The bible is also not clear on the time of year that Jesus was born but based on the 4 gospels it seems likely that the date was not December 25 which is the traditional Christmas day. Nativity scenes are just way of recreating the birth of Jesus regardless of the exact date of birth, usually placed underneath a traditional Christmas tree.

 

[crossnote]

This one takes the cake. They went to Bethlehame following His star to honor him. No one knows exactly how many there were so the early church gave it three for the three gifts, but this is not certain. As for the Holy Family remaining in the manger for two years...….wow, that is a good one. Anything to take away from the Word will some perpetrate

The issue in the OP is not how many wise men, but when did they arrived to worship Jesus? Please read the OP again.

 

[crossnote]

I only mentioned about the number because the way the OP was worded about 'We Three Kings'. The account of the Magi in Matthew 2:1-12 does not explicitly state the age of baby Jesus but rather only described him as a young child. The bible is also not clear on the time of year that Jesus was born but based on the 4 gospels it seems likely that the date was not December 25 which is the traditional Christmas day. Nativity scenes are just way of recreating the birth of Jesus regardless of the exact date of birth, usually placed underneath a traditional Christmas tree.

My deeper concern is how narratives get changed through shoddy interpretations, not so much about wisemen.

 

[JaumeJ]

The issue in the OP is not how many wise men, but when did they arrived to worship Jesus? Please read the OP again.

I read the entire op…….read my reply in full. As for the info on the number, it is only info...

 

[tourist]

My deeper concern is how narratives get changed through shoddy interpretations, not so much about wisemen.

The thing about narratives is that they change with the current prevailing wind at the time.

 

[KnowMe]

After about 45 days they brought the child to the temple.

Luke 2
39When Jesus’ parents had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.

Logic points to a cart pulled by a donkey , Joseph wouldn’t have a pregnant woman walk 98 miles

 

[Lanolin]

After about 45 days they brought the child to the temple.

Luke 2
39When Jesus’ parents had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.

Logic points to a cart pulled by a donkey , Joseph wouldn’t have a pregnant woman walk 98 miles

Hold on wasnt Jesus circumised after eight days, not sure if this was done AT the temple in Jerusalem or in Bethelehem. But to fufill the requirments of the law it took 40 days or so, someone has posted, at Jerusalem, and then after that they went home to Nazareth. Mary had to wash and do that puritifcatuon and thye had to sacrifice two turtldoves cos they couldnt afford a lamb, and then simeon and anna who were waiting to see Jesus the new born king wanted to bless him,

This is according to Luke, but Matthew tells a different story.

 

[Brad47]

Hmm, interesting thread. I never noticed this before, but it doesn't seem like the wise men actually went to Bethlehem when Jesus was a baby. Sounds more like they went to his house when he was a young child.