Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Negative
To say they can is to deny jesus, it says jesus will or can fail us, there is no other reqson people lose faith in others.
Its sad you think God is so unfaithful anyone could lose faith in him
Oh i have seen truth, my faith is not in self but in god, and god has never failed me, nor will he ever fail me so that i would even consider him untrustworthy
To say they can is to deny jesus, it says jesus will or can fail us, there is no other reqson people lose faith in others.
Its sad you think God is so unfaithful anyone could lose faith in him
Oh i have seen truth, my faith is not in self but in god, and god has never failed me, nor will he ever fail me so that i would even consider him untrustworthy
-
1
- Show all
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Col 3:11-12
There appears to be OSAS and non-OSAS expressers of theology, though they trust and believe in Jesus fully.
It is possible, to rip each other apart, and actually deny the very Lord we are serving.
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Tim 2:14
Once you see evil where there is none, it seems to be everywhere.
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Col 3:11-12
There appears to be OSAS and non-OSAS expressers of theology, though they trust and believe in Jesus fully.
It is possible, to rip each other apart, and actually deny the very Lord we are serving.
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Tim 2:14
Once you see evil where there is none, it seems to be everywhere.
-
1
- Show all
I wish you'd stop saying this.
Here's some help for you and others that believe this.
You love context.....below is some context for those words you keep repeating and never posting the scripture...
It's Romans 11:29 BTW.
It's speaking about the nation of Isreal. Not individual salvation.
I'm sure you know that Romans 9, 10, and 11 is totally about corporate salvation and not personal salvation...In 11:29 Paul jumps back to corporate salvation for a few verses to finish up his discourse.
You really need to know this difference and stop using those two words you love incorrectly.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Meyer's NT Commentary
Romans 11:29. Confirmation of the second half of Romans 11:28 by the axiom: “Unrepented, and so subject to no recall, are the displays of grace and (especially) the calling of God.” The application to be made of this general proposition is: Consequently God, who has once made this people the recipient of the displays of His grace and has called them to the Messianic salvation, will not, as though He had repented of this, again withdraw His grace from Israel, and leave and abandon His calling of Israel without realization.
Expositor's Greek Testament
Romans 11:29. Proof that the Israelites, in virtue of their relation to the fathers, are objects of God’s love. ἀμεταμέλητα cf. 2 Corinthians 7:10 : it may mean either what is not or what cannot be repented of: here the latter. God’s gifts of grace, and His calling, are things upon which there is no going back. The χαρίσματαare not the moral and intellectual qualifications with which Israel was endowed for its mission in the world (Godet), but the privileges of grace enumerated in chap. Romans 9:4 f. Neither is the κλῆσις of God a “calling” in the modern sense of a vocation or career assigned to any one by Him; it is His authoritative invitation to a part in the Messianic kingdom. From Israel these things can never be withdrawn.
Bengel's Gnomen
Romans 11:29. Ἀμεταμέλητα, without repentance) Truly an apostolic axiom. Something absolute is signified; for God will not give way to the unbelief of His own people [so as to suffer it to continue] for ever. Repentance is hid from the eyes of the Lord [i.e. change of His purpose, as to raising Israel from its present spiritual ‘death,’ is impossible with God], Hosea 13:14.—χαρίσματα, gifts) towards the Jews.—κλῆσις, calling) towards the Gentiles.
By the "calling of God," in this case, is meant that sovereign act by which God, in the exercise of His free choice, "called" Abraham to be the father of a peculiar people; while "the gifts of God" here denote the articles of the covenant which God made with Abraham, and which constituted the real distinction between his and all other families of the earth. Both these, says the apostle, are irrevocable; and as the point for which he refers to this at all is the final destiny of the Israelitish nation, it is clear that the perpetuity through all time of the Abrahamic covenant is the thing here affirmed. And lest any should say that though Israel, as a nation, has no destiny at all under the Gospel, but as a people disappeared from the stage when the middle wall of partition was broken down, yet the Abrahamic covenant still endures in the spiritual seed of Abraham, made up of Jews and Gentiles in one undistinguished mass of redeemed men under the Gospel—the apostle, as if to preclude that supposition, expressly states that the very Israel who, as concerning the Gospel, are regarded as "enemies for the Gentiles' sakes," are "beloved for the fathers' sakes"; and it is in proof of this that he adds, "For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance." But in what sense are the now unbelieving and excluded children of Israel "beloved for the fathers' sakes?" Not merely from ancestral recollections, as one looks with fond interest on the child of a dear friend for that friend's sake [Dr. Arnold]—a beautiful thought, and not foreign to Scripture, in this very matter (see 2Ch 20:7; Isa 41:8)—but it is from ancestral connections and obligations, or their lineal descent from and oneness in covenant with the fathers with whom God originally established it. In other words, the natural Israel—not "the remnant of them according to the election of grace," but THE NATION, sprung from Abraham according to the flesh—are still an elect people, and as such, "beloved." The very same love which chose the fathers, and rested on the fathers as a parent stem of the nation, still rests on their descendants at large, and will yet recover them from unbelief, and reinstate them in the family of God.
Here's some help for you and others that believe this.
You love context.....below is some context for those words you keep repeating and never posting the scripture...
It's Romans 11:29 BTW.
It's speaking about the nation of Isreal. Not individual salvation.
I'm sure you know that Romans 9, 10, and 11 is totally about corporate salvation and not personal salvation...In 11:29 Paul jumps back to corporate salvation for a few verses to finish up his discourse.
You really need to know this difference and stop using those two words you love incorrectly.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Meyer's NT Commentary
Romans 11:29. Confirmation of the second half of Romans 11:28 by the axiom: “Unrepented, and so subject to no recall, are the displays of grace and (especially) the calling of God.” The application to be made of this general proposition is: Consequently God, who has once made this people the recipient of the displays of His grace and has called them to the Messianic salvation, will not, as though He had repented of this, again withdraw His grace from Israel, and leave and abandon His calling of Israel without realization.
Expositor's Greek Testament
Romans 11:29. Proof that the Israelites, in virtue of their relation to the fathers, are objects of God’s love. ἀμεταμέλητα cf. 2 Corinthians 7:10 : it may mean either what is not or what cannot be repented of: here the latter. God’s gifts of grace, and His calling, are things upon which there is no going back. The χαρίσματαare not the moral and intellectual qualifications with which Israel was endowed for its mission in the world (Godet), but the privileges of grace enumerated in chap. Romans 9:4 f. Neither is the κλῆσις of God a “calling” in the modern sense of a vocation or career assigned to any one by Him; it is His authoritative invitation to a part in the Messianic kingdom. From Israel these things can never be withdrawn.
Bengel's Gnomen
Romans 11:29. Ἀμεταμέλητα, without repentance) Truly an apostolic axiom. Something absolute is signified; for God will not give way to the unbelief of His own people [so as to suffer it to continue] for ever. Repentance is hid from the eyes of the Lord [i.e. change of His purpose, as to raising Israel from its present spiritual ‘death,’ is impossible with God], Hosea 13:14.—χαρίσματα, gifts) towards the Jews.—κλῆσις, calling) towards the Gentiles.
By the "calling of God," in this case, is meant that sovereign act by which God, in the exercise of His free choice, "called" Abraham to be the father of a peculiar people; while "the gifts of God" here denote the articles of the covenant which God made with Abraham, and which constituted the real distinction between his and all other families of the earth. Both these, says the apostle, are irrevocable; and as the point for which he refers to this at all is the final destiny of the Israelitish nation, it is clear that the perpetuity through all time of the Abrahamic covenant is the thing here affirmed. And lest any should say that though Israel, as a nation, has no destiny at all under the Gospel, but as a people disappeared from the stage when the middle wall of partition was broken down, yet the Abrahamic covenant still endures in the spiritual seed of Abraham, made up of Jews and Gentiles in one undistinguished mass of redeemed men under the Gospel—the apostle, as if to preclude that supposition, expressly states that the very Israel who, as concerning the Gospel, are regarded as "enemies for the Gentiles' sakes," are "beloved for the fathers' sakes"; and it is in proof of this that he adds, "For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance." But in what sense are the now unbelieving and excluded children of Israel "beloved for the fathers' sakes?" Not merely from ancestral recollections, as one looks with fond interest on the child of a dear friend for that friend's sake [Dr. Arnold]—a beautiful thought, and not foreign to Scripture, in this very matter (see 2Ch 20:7; Isa 41:8)—but it is from ancestral connections and obligations, or their lineal descent from and oneness in covenant with the fathers with whom God originally established it. In other words, the natural Israel—not "the remnant of them according to the election of grace," but THE NATION, sprung from Abraham according to the flesh—are still an elect people, and as such, "beloved." The very same love which chose the fathers, and rested on the fathers as a parent stem of the nation, still rests on their descendants at large, and will yet recover them from unbelief, and reinstate them in the family of God.
-
1
- Show all
Quite hilarious.
"while you didn't exactly say that" , "the way you phrased that" "suggests you believe"
Think a little bit about the phrases you just used. You are trying to get me to have said something that I didn't say. What you found in the post you point back to is exactly the same thing I have been saying all along.
But I am leaving for today - and will not be back till tomorrow . . . It has been fun having a conversation with you . . .
"while you didn't exactly say that" , "the way you phrased that" "suggests you believe"
Think a little bit about the phrases you just used. You are trying to get me to have said something that I didn't say. What you found in the post you point back to is exactly the same thing I have been saying all along.
But I am leaving for today - and will not be back till tomorrow . . . It has been fun having a conversation with you . . .
-
1
- Show all
Where does the bible say that those who walked away were never saved?
I can't remember this verse.
If God does not force people...
Why can't I just walk away?
The question here is not whether or not I want to...
but whether or not it's POSSIBLE.
And, it would really be nice if you stopped making personal remarks about me and my relationship with God.
I can't remember this verse.
If God does not force people...
Why can't I just walk away?
The question here is not whether or not I want to...
but whether or not it's POSSIBLE.
And, it would really be nice if you stopped making personal remarks about me and my relationship with God.
A lot of people are INCONSISTENT calvinists. They want their cake and wanna eat it too
They love some preservation of the saints, but are not fancying any total depravity or unconditional election!
A lot of people are also inconsistent arminians. They say Im a bible believer, arminians are heretics, yet they affirm all the points except one
They love some preservation of the saints, but are not fancying any total depravity or unconditional election!
A lot of people are also inconsistent arminians. They say Im a bible believer, arminians are heretics, yet they affirm all the points except one
-
1
- Show all
Because it is a current present possession....it is the spirit that has been born again at the moment of belief and it is eternally sealed in Christ.......and unlike the Catholic deceiver.....the gifts and calling of GOD are irrevocable....SALVATION is a GIFT and the definite article "THE" applies to any and all gifts that GOD would give......
Which claims would those be.
Let's discuss this seriously for once.
YOU posted some scripture and I explained that it does not help you and works against you.
I explained WHY.
Please tell me WHY or WHERE you don't agree with me.
John 15:1-6 shows VERY PLAINLY that salvation can be lost.
It shows that branches that do not produce fruit are CUT OFF, DRIED UP, AND BURNED.
Jesus said this,,,,NOT ME.
Please reply and tell me why you don't agree with me.
Let's discuss this seriously for once.
YOU posted some scripture and I explained that it does not help you and works against you.
I explained WHY.
Please tell me WHY or WHERE you don't agree with me.
John 15:1-6 shows VERY PLAINLY that salvation can be lost.
It shows that branches that do not produce fruit are CUT OFF, DRIED UP, AND BURNED.
Jesus said this,,,,NOT ME.
Please reply and tell me why you don't agree with me.
U
I believe we have a will, not completely free nor completely determined
We do not "will" ourselves into salvation, "exercising our faith" in Jesus is not an act of our will.
I can explain this more if you would like
The "P" in Tulip (Calvinism) stands for Perserverance.......completely different from Preservation
I do believe God preserves us in that once He states we are justified there is no double jeopardy
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
E
A lot of people are INCONSISTENT calvinists. They want their cake and wanna eat it too
They love some preservation of the saints, but are not fancying any total depravity or unconditional election!
A lot of people are also inconsistent arminians. They say Im a bible believer, arminians are heretics, yet they affirm all the points except one
They love some preservation of the saints, but are not fancying any total depravity or unconditional election!
A lot of people are also inconsistent arminians. They say Im a bible believer, arminians are heretics, yet they affirm all the points except one
They are just bible fed born again christians.
-
1
- Show all