are we to forgive anything and everything

[NayborBear]

i appreciate that but there are several people who were not forgiven, Judas hanged himself, ananias and his wife were struck down for lying to God and rev says anyone who gets the mark of the beast will be eternally condemned. there are things that God does not tolerate and neither should we

There are "theories" concerning Judas, that may cause one to lean in a direction, that he was not so "in angst", concerning his apparent suicide.
But, rather, he was murdered, and sliced from "stem to stern", by the religious hierarchy, who hired mercenaries, (or did the deed themselves) in assuring Judas' silence concerning their conspiracy over Jesus' crucifixion.

 

[JaumeJ]

i appreciate that but there are several people who were not forgiven, Judas hanged himself, ananias and his wife were struck down for lying to God and rev says anyone who gets the mark of the beast will be eternally condemned. there are things that God does not tolerate and neither should we

No man knows the mind of our Maker. Any saying they do is lying.

There arfe many events of the Old Tesgtament thaqt occurred stgrictly as "ensamples" for us. So it may well be with some in th eNew Testgament. I know our Fasther is alwys good, no matter what our eyes of flesh may thing they perceive.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus told his disciples, if u forgive it is forgiven in heaven and if u do not forgive it is not forgiven in heaven...

This is not exactly applicable to Christians in general. The apostles were given the authority to make righteous judgments and either pronounce forgiveness or not. Thus what they bound on earth would be bound in Heaven, and what they loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven.

What is applicable to Christians in general is this command: Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (Mt 18:21,22)

But this cannot be separated from this other passage: Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. (Lk 17:3,4)

Which means that repentance is a condition for forgiveness, but for humans and for God also. Also, this is primarily applicable to brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But, rather, he was murdered, and sliced from "stem to stern", by the religious hierarchy, who hired mercenaries, (or did the deed themselves) in assuring Judas' silence concerning their conspiracy over Jesus' crucifixion.

Where did you come up with this fantasy?

 

[KnowMe]

Forgiving one of a "sin", is one thing.
The forgiving of "habitual" sin? One should pray and ask God, where a line should be drawn in one's discerning between forgiving, and enabling.

that’s a good point as well, doesn’t scripture say wipe the dust off your feet could mean rather than enabling,

 

[obedienttogod]

Jesus told his disciples, if u forgive it is forgiven in heaven and if u do not forgive it is not forgiven in heaven, so the apostles had the power to forgive and condemn. but many christian feel that we should forgive anything and everything but i feel that some wrongs go too deep and some crimes especially to a family members are just too evil to even consider forgiveness

You can forgive that individual because when that individual was wrong doing his family members, he was doing it while being psychologically damaged. He had serious mental issues. It was virtually impossible for that human to have not been anything but a monster. You hate the sin that ultimately caused this condition, to infest humanity, like they are normal human beings. Demons come in many shapes and forms. Don't hate the person, hate what is controlling the person!!

 

[KD]

“So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.” The apostles said to the Lord, “Show us how to increase our faith.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:3-5‬ ‭NLT‬‬
https://www.bible.com/116/luk.17.3-5.nlt

I wonder how are we to know if they’ve repented? A simple apology? Is not repentance a change in heart? If they’ve repented then continue to repeat the sin 7 times a day, how do we forgive continually? Maybe the answer is in the apostles reply? Increase our faith!

 

[Dan58]

truely repent but forgive only after they are killed, that sounds morbid

My point was that forgiveness doesn't absolve someone of the offense. In other words, if someone murders your family, they don't get off just because your willing to let it go.. They pay the penalty for the crime, and if they repent, you can forgive them before or after they face the death penalty or go to prison.

 

[Dan58]

I wonder how are we to know if they’ve repented? A simple apology? Is not repentance a change in heart? If they’ve repented then continue to repeat the sin 7 times a day, how do we forgive continually? Maybe the answer is in the apostles reply? Increase our faith!

If someone stole your lawn mower out of your garage and ask for forgiveness while simultaneously refusing to return your mower, odd's are they're not repentant

 

[KnowMe]

My point was that forgiveness doesn't absolve someone of the offense. In other words, if someone murders your family, they don't get off just because your willing to let it go.. They pay the penalty for the crime, and if they repent, you can forgive them before or after they face the death penalty or go to prison.

thanks for explaining, I agree

though the repenting in my opinion is between them and God. if someone killed my whole family, surely it might take a lot to forgive such a thing, but we still need to strive to do so, might take a lifetime or might not come at all, but if we whole heartily try and fail then try and try again I don’t think it can hurt to try even if we don’t know of the repentance from the offender.

 

[KnowMe]

If someone stole your lawn mower out of your garage and ask for forgiveness while simultaneously refusing to return your mower, odd's are they're not repentant

next year buy them a lawn mower a used one would be fine.

 

[Dino246]

“So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.” The apostles said to the Lord, “Show us how to increase our faith.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:3-5‬ ‭NLT‬‬
https://www.bible.com/116/luk.17.3-5.nlt

I wonder how are we to know if they’ve repented? A simple apology? Is not repentance a change in heart? If they’ve repented then continue to repeat the sin 7 times a day, how do we forgive continually? Maybe the answer is in the apostles reply? Increase our faith!

"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance" (Matthew 3:8). There should be a consistency between one's claim to repentance and one's actions. Sure, people repeat their sins... that's why the attitude of the penitent is important. Is that person humble in their shame, or are they defiantly making excuses for their sin? Are they demanding forgiveness? That's a sign that they aren't repentant.

A wise counselor suggested that if someone sins once, forgive and let it go (the context was minor issues). If they do it repeatedly, then address it with them. Someone who repeats more serious sins needs boundaries set in place to minimize the damage and restrain their sin. Continued violation leads to consequences of increasing severity, but that is separate from forgiveness. You can forgive each and every instance while still enforcing boundaries and consequences.

 

[Hungry]

I think it is foolish to think you can accurately depict the heart and mind of our Creator in every circumstance based on a loosely applied verse. In the parable that follows in Matt 19, the man who owes the recently forgiven debtor, begged for a chance to pay him back. Hurt people, hurt people. Who knows the heart of an abuser and why they are that way. In some cases of pure evil and malice, I vote just snuff em out and let God decide.

 

[Dino246]

If someone stole your lawn mower out of your garage and ask for forgiveness while simultaneously refusing to return your mower, odd's are they're not repentant

You've touched on an aspect of the discussion that is usually omitted entirely: restitution. It's deeply rooted in the Law - if you inadvertently (or intentionally) destroy something belonging to your neighbour, you must restore his loss to him, to your own loss.

In many cases, restitution is impossible or unwieldy. You can't make restitution directly for lying, coveting, or committing adultery. You can, however, demonstrate your repentant attitude by avoiding the situations that led to the prior sin.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Forgiveness
How do you forgive a brother who claims to know Jesus, yet condemns one as an unbeliever
because of a belief in security in Christ and not the reality of coming to faith.

What is strange is the theory that a believer by not holding a theology in a particular way
must be evil, deceived and doomed to hell, and should be abused and accused of lying, decieving,
and a hypocrite and a sinner.

Open it one step deeper, this believing group do not believe they are called to walk like Jesus.
They believe besetting sin is incurable, and righteousness is only Jesus by faith and not an established
reality. Some even say Jesus's words are not to be taken to heart and followed, they are only spoken to
create a need for Jesus to save them, metaphorically but not by life transformation in righteousness.

So to define forgivenss one has to know what is being forgiven and why. One can forgive sin done against
one personally, insults, assaults, lies and slander, but not being an enemy of Christ.

Equally I can freely give a thief my belongings, and forgive their theft, but I cannot forgive a thief their
stealing someone elses belongings.

Jesus seems also to be saying, as His people, is a believer comes repentant to us, resting in the cross, we
can forgive their sins is a way Jesus did, as a deputising Christs ministry on earth. Equally those who fake
and play games, like Anaias and Saphira, they died and were not forgiven.

 

[garee]

Never quite understood this verse...

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 16:19 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.16.19.ESV

The Youngs literal has it correctly .Not sure if they alone do.

 

[NayborBear]

Where did you come up with this fantasy?

Acts 1
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Like I said, theory. But certainly not fantasy either.

 

[NayborBear]

that’s a good point as well, doesn’t scripture say wipe the dust off your feet could mean rather than enabling,

I think you are referring to this?

Luke 10
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

I suppose ya could liken this with forgiveness. But, as ya can see, is more to do with evangelizing, or even repentance, then with forgiveness.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I once listened to this woman speak. She was a child in Auschwitz. The horrific atrocities she witnessed daily and the monstrous beastly evil enacted upon her was unspeakable. Raped, beaten, medical torture, watched her friends and peers tormented to death, and rescued just before her own death. She come to the US and becomes a Christian lives a portion of her life struggling with hate and resentment because her ordeal. One day she find herself standing before one of the wretched monsters that tormented so many, they are in his prison hospital room. He begs her forgiveness and mercy. In that moment she would have rather killed him. It took her several visits but eventually she forgave him. She said the weight of all that resentment and hate was lifted from her in that moment.
I heard her tell this story a long time ago and I probably have some of the details wrong. However, to my point. Is this woman more mercifully than God? Was she able to forgive what our lord can not?
The answer is no, she forgave because our Lord empowered her to forgive.

 

[Budman]

Yes, anyone who asks,he forgives. It's simple.

Amen. Too many people complicate that simple truth.