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Does God make Christians sick to take them home?
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God does not give His saints a hand up beyond what the worldly experience. If we lived a charmed life like Job, before his affliction, everyone would say: no wonder they serve God, look how well they are doing. No, in life we "gets our ticket and pays the price." With the exception of occasional divine healing, we get life with all its bumps and bruises. Just like MadHermit said: The general answer is: God does not micro-manage the universe and its laws. "All are victims of time and chance (Ecclesiastes 9:11,d)."
That said: It all will work for our overall spiritual good (Romans 8:28). In fact, Christ promised just the opposite. He said: John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Trouble is what refines our character and completes our faith.
So if God allows sickness, I would put it that God causes sickness. All He has to do is back off and the evil spirits will come in and do the dirty work. David, A man after God own heart, looked at it like that also. Psalms 39:9, 10 "I was dumb, I opened not my mouth; because thou didst it. Remove thy stroke away from me: I am consumed by the blow of thine hand." David saw God's hand in everything that touched his life.
He allows it but he doesnt cause it. If we look At Job.
The devil had introdcued sickness into the world to afflict creation which is flesh. We all live in the flesh in this fallen world and wont get out alive...we all need to die. Yet since we are saved, our flesh will die but our soul will be saved.
When God sends plagues its to get people to repent. All those who obeyed and put the blood of the lamb on their doorposts were passed over. Those that didnt, perished. Does he call people home yes but some people dont want to actually go 'home'. Some would rather stay behind and perish. Im probably not explaining this very well..
The devil had introdcued sickness into the world to afflict creation which is flesh. We all live in the flesh in this fallen world and wont get out alive...we all need to die. Yet since we are saved, our flesh will die but our soul will be saved.
When God sends plagues its to get people to repent. All those who obeyed and put the blood of the lamb on their doorposts were passed over. Those that didnt, perished. Does he call people home yes but some people dont want to actually go 'home'. Some would rather stay behind and perish. Im probably not explaining this very well..
1 Cor 11: 27-32
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Hb 12: 11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
The Lord chastens us so that we should not be condemned with the world and so that we become righteous in our outward behavior to compliment the imputed righteousness that was given to us by the Lord when we were born of the Spirit.
PTL!
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Hb 12: 11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
The Lord chastens us so that we should not be condemned with the world and so that we become righteous in our outward behavior to compliment the imputed righteousness that was given to us by the Lord when we were born of the Spirit.
PTL!
Matthew 10:29-30 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
29 When birds are sold, two small birds cost only a penny. But not even one of those little birds can die without your Father knowing it. 30 God even knows how many hairs are on your head.
1 Corinthians 5:5 Amplified Bible (AMP)
5 you are to [a]hand over this man to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 5 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Fate of Ananias and Sapphira
5 Now a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife’s full knowledge [and complicity] he kept back some of the proceeds, bringing only a [a]portion of it, and set it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and [secretly] keep back for yourself some of the proceeds [from the sale] of the land? 4 As long as it remained [unsold], did it not remain your own [to do with as you pleased]? And after it was sold, was the money not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this act [of hypocrisy and deceit] in your heart? You have not [simply] lied to people, but to God.” 5 And hearing these words, Ananias fell down suddenly and died; and great fear and awe gripped those who heard of it. 6 And the young men [in the congregation] got up and wrapped up the body, and carried it out and buried it.
7 Now after an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me whether you sold your land for so much?” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 Then Peter said to her, “How could you two have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look! The feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” 10 And at once she fell down at his feet and died; and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear and awe gripped the whole church, and all who heard about these things.
1 Corinthians 11:27-32 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
27 So if you eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in a way that does not fit its meaning, you are sinning against the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 Before you eat the bread and drink the cup, you should examine your own attitude. 29 If you eat and drink without paying attention to those who are the Lord’s body, your eating and drinking will cause you to be judged guilty. 30 That is why many in your group are sick and weak, and many have died. 31 But if we judged ourselves in the right way, then God would not judge us. 32 But when the Lord judges us, he punishes us to show us the right way. He does this so that we will not be condemned with the world.
So many good posts in this thread so far!
IMO, it is not God who does the 'making' someone sick. In this life it is effectively the enemy (not God) that does the making sick. God may allow it but my understanding is that the devils carry out the dirty work...basically because that kind of work is against God's nature. He is come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, whereas the devil comes to steal, to kill, and to destroy
John 10:10 KJV
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
God just has a way of making all things turn out for good (death/sickness included) to them that love Him. (He's pretty awesome)
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Hi Kelby, what is the correct understanding of verse 7??
Isaiah 45 King James Version (KJV)
45 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts.
14 Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
I do not see how you get that from that text.
Psalm 139 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
To the director: A praise song of David.
139 Lord, you have tested me,
so you know all about me.
2 You know when I sit down and when I get up.
You know my thoughts from far away.
3 You know where I go and where I lie down.
You know everything I do.
4 Lord, you know what I want to say,
even before the words leave my mouth.
5 You are all around me—in front of me and behind me.
I feel your hand on my shoulder.
6 I am amazed at what you know;
it is too much for me to understand.
7 Your Spirit is everywhere I go.
I cannot escape your presence.
8 If I go up to heaven, you will be there.
If I go down to the place of death, you will be there.
9 If I go east where the sun rises
or go to live in the west beyond the sea,
10 even there you will take my hand and lead me.
Your strong right hand will protect me.
11 Suppose I wanted to hide from you and said,
“Surely the darkness will hide me.
The day will change to night and cover me.”
12 Even the darkness is not dark to you.
The night is as bright as the day.
Darkness and light are the same.
13 You formed the way I think and feel.[a]
You put me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because you made me in such a wonderful way.
I know how amazing that was!
15 You could see my bones grow as my body took shape,
hidden in my mother’s womb.[b]
16 You could see my body grow each passing day.[c]
You listed all my parts, and not one of them was missing.[/B]
17 Your thoughts are beyond my understanding.[d]
They cannot be measured!
18 If I could count them, they would be more than all the grains of sand.
But when I finished, I would have just begun.[e]
19 You murderers, get away from me!
God, kill those wicked people—
20 those who say bad things about you.
Your enemies use your name falsely.[f]
21 Lord, I hate those who hate you.
I hate those who are against you.
22 I hate them completely!
Your enemies are also my enemies.
23 God, examine me and know my mind.
Test me and know all my worries.
24 Make sure that I am not going the wrong way.[g]
Lead me on the path that has always been right.
K
KnowMe
Guest
I wasn't suggesting that I did. The reference only sets the stage. The rest is a summary of God's working in our lives.
Job 42 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Job Answers the Lord
42 Then Job answered the Lord:
2 “I know you can do everything.
You make plans, and nothing can change or stop them.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this ignorant person saying these foolish things?’[a]
I talked about things I did not understand.
I talked about things too amazing for me to know.
4 “You said to me, ‘Listen, and I will speak.
I will ask you questions, and you will answer me.’
5 In the past I heard about you,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 And I am ashamed of myself.
I am so sorry.
As I sit in the dust and ashes,[c]
I promise to change my heart and my life.”
The Lord Gives Job’s Wealth Back
7 After the Lord finished talking to Job, he spoke to Eliphaz from Teman. He said, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not tell the truth about me, as my servant Job did. 8 So now, Eliphaz, get seven bulls and seven rams. Take them to my servant Job. Kill them and offer them as a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer. Then I will not give you the punishment you deserve. You should be punished, because you were very foolish. You did not say what is right about me, as my servant Job did.”
9 So Eliphaz from Teman, Bildad from Shuah, and Zophar from Naamah obeyed the Lord. Then the Lord answered Job’s prayer.
10 Job prayed for his friends, and the Lord made Job successful again.
I wasn't suggesting that I did. The reference only sets the stage. The rest is a summary of God's working in our lives.
Oh,my bad
I agree with what those scriptures disclose.
The person I was referring to did not die due to being handed over to Satan, he died due to his occupation, one he chose before turning 21 years old and while still in his Church he never left out from, he was over two different functions of it.
His occupation placed his life in the control and hands of those who order his steps, mistakes can happen and cost people dearly and those steps taken were by orders beyound the control of the one who carried them out. They are given by those far from the one taking them out or the one who ordered them to take them.
The one who was killed never lost his zeal or love of The Lord Jesus Christ or his Church.
The way and days ahead of the day he was killed laid far greater the devastation to his mind, heart and soul if he went into them, he would have never been able to have accepted it, it would have crushed him living with it and embedded into his memory.
I have seen the sickest out live the healthiest while, everyone thought the sickest was going to die and they did not, they lived another 22 years longer.
I think our hearts, minds and souls are of much greater the value of worth unto the Lord above all else, I think things can change in this world while somethings cannot. Mainly the Word of God cannot change.
Be it sickness, be it tragedy we all die in the flesh as appointed once unto us all, yet, we all do not have to die from a broken heart, mind and soul.
I think the Lord save us from that.
Go read the Corinthian letter.....some were sickly among them and had fallen asleep "died" because they had corrupted the Lord's supper!!
We must not seek to find sin in sothrs rather we should seek to show mercy where ever possible. It becomes easier with practice.