Why is praying in tongues necessary?

[wolfwint]

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

It sounds strange that you got all sign gifts. According the bible, are these gifts not given to one person, but every gift to different members in the church. Like Paul compared it with an body. So it seems you dont need others, because you are all in one.
Then, where i can find the reports about your miracles and sign doing and healings in any newspaper of your place.
If the Lord works through you, praise the Lord.
But your teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a false teaching.
As i moretimes said. Neuther you find this teaching in the letters to the NT churches nor you find it in the churchhistorie. ( That we find talking in tongues, mostly in cults, i agree.)
But before 1900, i cant find this teaching in any Christian church ore denomination.

 

[garee]

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

The tongues of men and of angels is simply prophecy God's word as it is written .

Yes he gave spiritual unseen gifts. You cannot find the word "gift" and "sign' used together as in Charismatics.

We are filled (not partial or a unknown remnant ) with the Holy Spirit as a result of hearing and believing scripture (no outward sign).

No such thing as a "sign gift". Signs speak of rebellion as those who make prophecy without effect. . The gift is prophecy in any language/tongue . The sign of tongues points to those who refuse to hear prophecy in exchange a little false pride. According to the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) no sign gifts .Christian are filled with the Holy Spirit that dwells in them. They hear the word of God and believe walking by faith .(the unseen eternal)

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (prophecy) and other lips (no longer Hebrew alone) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore "tongues" are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that "believe not:" but prophesying serveth not for them that "believe not", but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

Tongues the sign of unbelief (no faith)

 

[justpassinthrough]

To whom Jesus spoke in acts 1, 4-8?

You ignoring just the facts.
And you do not taking away my doubts. In opposite!
You taking just passages out of the context and are not able and show where your view is taught. In the NT churches.

He spoke to His disciples.


Are you a disciples?




JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

the pentecostal movement of 1900 are the only ones to think it had to do with speaking in angel languages.

Jesus and His Apostles teach us about the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and praying or speaking in tongues.



Stop making up nonsense.




JPT

 

[wolfwint]

He spoke to His disciples.


Are you a disciples?




JPT

Which one of the 12 then you are?

 

[wolfwint]

Jesus and His Apostles teach us about the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and praying or speaking in tongues.



Stop making up nonsense.




JPT

Then bring an scriptual reference from the NT letters. Instead only makeing statements without scripture proof.

 

[Lafftur]

Did you even read my post? My testimony? How sick I was of a a few Scriptures in Acts?

There is a whole Bible, 66 books, thousands of incredible pages. About who God is. Why Jesus was sent, and what he did for us on the cross! Doctrine, wisdom, counselling, advice, admonition, and how to walk/live with God. The word walk in Greek is peripateo and it also means "live." It appears hundreds of times in the NT, nothing to do with this one time experiential event. Waking with Christ, through the Holy Spirit, is how we are transformed. Using our minds, not some kind of one time experience. Transformation is daily walk!

"Therefore I exhort you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice—alive, holy, and pleasing to God—which is your reasonable service. 2 Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." airman's 12:1-2

The interesting thing about this passage, Paul follows it with instructions on how to live, and gifts! None of which is tongues or prophecy!

"For by the grace given to me I say to every one of you not to think more highly of yourself than you ought to think, but to think with sober discernment, as God has distributed to each of you a measure of faith. 4 For just as in one body we have many members, and not all the members serve the same function, 5 so we who are many are one body in Christ, and individually we are members who belong to one another. 6 And we have different gifts according to the grace given to us. If the gift is prophecy, that individual must use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is service, he must serve; if it is teaching, he must teach; 8 if it is exhortation, he must exhort; if it is contributing, he must do so with sincerity; if it is leadership, he must do so with diligence; if it is showing mercy, he must do so with cheerfulness." Romans 12: 3-8

I had the so-called "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which is not actually in the Bible. (This is a noun phrase, not an verb, like Baptism) in 1980. There was no additional fullness, because I WAS full of the Holy Spirit.

So, learn about the rest of the Bible. I've read Acts probably 60-70 times, including in Koine Greek and French. I studied it is seminary. I taught a Bible study on it! Acts is so much more than some individual getting some second "blessing!" It is about community, about the Holy Spirit leading the church to grow not just in numbers, but in spirit and character. It is about solid teaching, about evangelism, and the history of the church.

Read the whole book of Acts!! Read the whole NT and the OT.

And if I seem angry, try exasperated instead. I am tired of a lie, and how it binds/blinds people from exploring the whole Bible, to say nothing of the communal aspects of the birth of the church, which is about the Holy Spirit falling on 120 followers of Jesus, including the disciples, and then, speaking in real tongues, and people hearing the gospel in their own language.

I know there are people who go beyond these superficial interpretations. Gordon Fee is one of the top Greek scholars in the world. He writes commentaries, books in many topics, and is on translation committees. He is not obsessed with 5 incidents in Acts, although he is Pentecostal. He uses his learning to help the body of Christ grow!

I do not like this obsession with a one time dubious event. If you are growing in your faith (not talking about just tongues) sharing the gospel, loving God and your neighbour, then the Holy Spirit IS working with power in your life. And that is all you will ever need!

There is no OT promise for tongues, the way it is practised today. Jesus is the promise. The Holy Spirit is given to us when we are saved, to seal the promise of Jesus. Not for some individual singular experience! The Holy Spirit is the link to Jesus and the Father! Why do you need a bigger link? I assure you, God gave you the whole package when you were saved. So live it!

@Angela53510 ,

So sorry you are so angry and exasperated. This thread is about praying in the Holy Spirit so, of course that's ALL we'll talk about in our posts on this thread.

Be careful with anger, it can blind you to truth.

I wish you all the best!

 

[Lafftur]

Why on earth would you apologize for a choice I made, as a young Christian? How ridiculous! I learned what was wrong with the Pentecostal movement. Really, it was the Holy Spirit who showed me the error, and moved me to churches with strong doctrine, and love for one another, and fellowship It was the Holy Spirit who called me to seminary, where I learned and grew so much, and also got tools to minister to people in Real life, and online. And God who has called me to do a PhD in theology, to reach the hurting and broken.

God has always been in control of my life! He has always been there to lead and guide, including pulling me back when I did not listen and took a wrong turn.

I know God loves me. It is the first thing God told me when he saved me. But, he also told me to repent of my sin, and he has helped me through my 39 year journey as a Christian.

As for your comments - do you even go to church? Even a house group? It is the ultimate of pride to think you can grow in Christ on your own. Yes, the Holy Spirit leads you! But, if you are not in fellowship with other Christians in real life, it is not the Holy Spirit who is leading you. It is also the height of pride to think you only need to listen the Holy Spirit, when God left the church as a community. Why did Paul have to write all those epistles? A lot of it was correction. People who thought they were listening to the Holy Spirit, when they were being deceived. That is one important reason we need to be in a church, with godly people.

The Bible has always been clear that community is the goal. Why? Because God is triune! He is three in one. He is a community, a social Trinity. We are created in the image of God. That image is not an individual off by themselves, it is about community, fellowship, and learning from others, from books, from many different things. In fact, that is what brings balance to your life, since, we do not listen, and we see God through a glass darkly!

"For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. " 1 Cor. 13:12

We do not have all knowledge, but when Christ returns, we will see him as he is!

"Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that whenever it is revealed we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is." 1 John 3:2

And then, we will be transformed into the same image!

"And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

So no! Christians are not solitary beings, all the above verses are addressed in the plural to a community. Other than Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus, to tell them how to pastor their churches, the NT was never meant to be about a single person, trying to walk with the Holy Spirit. We NEED a church body. And they will never be perfect! But, we can stay and try to change them, or move on as God leaders us. And we can always learn and grow, if we do not think we know everything already.

The Holy Spirit speaks through the Bible. He speaks through the sermon, the music, prayer time, Bible studies, in groups. We need to be in community! We need to be in fellowship!

"What we have seen and heard we announce to you too, so that you may have fellowship with us (and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ)." 1 John 1:3

"But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Some more functions of a church community.

"Brothers and sisters, if a person is discovered in some sin, you who are spiritual restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness. Pay close attention to yourselves, so that you are not tempted too. 2 Carry one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." Gal. 6:1-2

In fact, being part of a church community, or fellowship, assembly or whatever you want to call it is commanded in the NT:

"And let us take thought of how to spur one another on to love and good works, 25 not abandoning our own meetings, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging each other, and even more so because you see the day drawing near." Hebrews 10:24-25

In abandoning church, whether denominational or not, you have wandered astray. And the Holy
Spirit did not lead you there. The real key is always to compare your experience to the Bible. When you walk away from organized church, and think you are being led by the Holy Spirit, when you focus on 5 passages in Acts, you are not in the will of God.

Hmm! Bit of the gift of exhortation there, I guess. Sometimes I teach, sometimes I preach, and sometimes I exhort. I hope you don't think I am targeting you, there are many other people here this applies to! I hope they are listening to this important message about fellowship with the body of Christ. There simply is no solo Christian in the Bible! We were not created that way!

@Angela53510,

Thank you for your concern for me by encouraging me to have fellowship with other believers. So sorry if I led you to believe I don't.

I simply said that I've come out of all denominations which are man's doctrines and traditions. It is denominations that choose what part of the Bible they will use and what they will throw out - just like people do - some can dance, some cannot, some can use musical instruments, some cannot, some can drink, some cannot, some can worship on Saturday, some cannot, some can wear make-up, some cannot, etc. - such is the foolishness of man. I do not follow such foolishness.

What I do enjoy is love for each other and encouraging each other in faith in Yeshua/Jesus Christ. Praying for each other never losing sight of our first love.........

I do not rely on man to teach me, I am to prove all things by studying the Word for myself - not just believing what someone said. When I study the Word, I rely totally and completely on the Holy Spirit to teach me. To taste the hidden manna is incredible!

1 John 2:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

My intentions with this post is to let you know that I am with the Lord and He is watching over me just fine. Also, I know He is also with you, watching over you, too! So, we need only to love one another! I wish you all the best! Enjoy your journey.........



.

 

[Lafftur]

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

As John the Baptist said, Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. Peter confirmed this by quoting the prophet Joel.

I think it is kind of funny that both of you are right........lol!

Have you considered that because scripture supports both, that both are correct. Why do we have to think Yeshua/Jesus only baptizes us with the Holy Spirit one way.

He certainly did not heal everybody the same way. Some He would speak a word, some He would lay His hand on them, some He would make mud with His spit and rub it on them...............

One thing for sure..............there is a baptism of water, Holy Spirit and fire. How ever God chooses to do it, is fine with me...............I just know I want all 3 of those baptisms!

 

[Lafftur]

I am so very thankful and humbled that God has given me his Holy Spirit and that daily and often I can pray
in the tongues of men and of angels.
Power, miracles, healings, blessings, overcoming many tribulations …
knowledge, discerning of spirits, faith, healing and working of miracles are all in my walk and of my testimony to being a disciple
of Christ Jesus and the full gospel of salvation.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
Ephesians 4:8 (ESV)

Here is the problem with the WHOLE charismatic movement in a nutshell.

The Gospel relegated to a tiny footnote at the end of a post, and experience and "gifts" elevated higher than our Lord.

Hold on, Waggles didn't say anything about being thankful for the charismatic movement..........

 

[Lafftur]

Yeah, there doesn't need to be an angel language. Charlie talked to them just fine on a special phone.

Didy, I love your humor......lol!

Remember the phone.............lol!

 

[stonesoffire]

the pentecostal movement of 1900 are the only ones to think it had to do with speaking in angel languages.

If that is so, it came from Paul.

I have no idea what language or languages I've received. It's the gift of Holy Spirit and is for our good.

That's enough for me to want His fullness.

 

[PennEd]

@Angela53510,

Thank you for your concern for me by encouraging me to have fellowship with other believers. So sorry if I led you to believe I don't.

I simply said that I've come out of all denominations which are man's doctrines and traditions. It is denominations that choose what part of the Bible they will use and what they will throw out - just like people do - some can dance, some cannot, some can use musical instruments, some cannot, some can drink, some cannot, some can worship on Saturday, some cannot, some can wear make-up, some cannot, etc. - such is the foolishness of man. I do not follow such foolishness.

What I do enjoy is love for each other and encouraging each other in faith in Yeshua/Jesus Christ. Praying for each other never losing sight of our first love.........

I do not rely on man to teach me, I am to prove all things by studying the Word for myself - not just believing what someone said. When I study the Word, I rely totally and completely on the Holy Spirit to teach me. To taste the hidden manna is incredible!

1 John 2:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

My intentions with this post is to let you know that I am with the Lord and He is watching over me just fine. Also, I know He is also with you, watching over you, too! So, we need only to love one another! I wish you all the best! Enjoy your journey.........



.

Hello sister! Love your humble spirit!

I'd like to address a few Scriptures and thoughts you have put forward here over the past couple of days.

Although I certainly agree that we can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit that has sealed us upon our NEW Birth, and that He can be more Present and tangible AT TIMES, which some may refer to as a filling or refilling of Him or the Holy Spirit "falling" on someone, I don't believe there is a difference between becoming a Born Again Child of God, being filled and sealed at that time by the Holy Spirit, and a separate event of Him Baptizing us in the Holy Spirit.

But I was intrigued by the Scripture you posted the other day, which seemed at 1st to in fact be a separate event:

Acts 8:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.

15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


I found a commentary that seemed to clear this up for me. It said that these people in Samaria were likely Baptized in the Name of Christ alone because of their contact with Jesus Himself when He was in that region, or the testimony of others like the woman at the well.

They may not even had known that Jesus was crucified, died and resurrected. So they may have believed He was the Messiah, the Son of God, but NOT the other necessary component of THE GOSPEL UNTO SALVATION!



I think the passage you cite above was for the Apostles themselves. Why would Paul say that some people would get the gift of teaching, and discernment, meaning some wouldn't, if EVERYBODY got those gifts, and NO ONE needed teachers with discernment?


Be Blessed!

 

[stonesoffire]

@Waggles
With what do you disagree?

I agree Sketch.

We read that Jesus breathed on the disciples and said, receive my Holy Spirit. This was after He rose and appeared to them. They were repentive (Word?) for not believing. I see this as the Spirit of Christ. And churches that teach only salvation by blood say Jesus in my heart. Is true, the realization of the gospel received. The feast of Passover is the picture.

But, after....Holy Spirit came and anointed them with fire, both in and out. Giftings and offices given to minister in power.

 

[PennEd]

Hold on, Waggles didn't say anything about being thankful for the charismatic movement..........

Not sure I said he did,

 

[Deade]

I think the passage you cite above was for the Apostles themselves. Why would Paul say that some people would get the gift of teaching, and discernment, meaning some wouldn't, if EVERYBODY got those gifts, and NO ONE needed teachers with discernment?

Hold on there PennEd, I think we put too much emphasis on a statement in excluding any common sense application that might be evident. Take teachers, for an example. Paul said this:

1 Cor. 12:28, 29 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?”

Could he have meant "are all merely teachers?" Because I think any mature Christian should be able to teach when the opportunity presents itself. I believe the following scripture shows this:

Heb. 5:12 “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.”

Spiritual discernment may also be a universal gift. I would certainly hope so, anyway.

 

[PennEd]

Hold on there PennEd, I think we put too much emphasis on a statement in excluding any common sense application that might be evident. Take teachers, for an example. Paul said this:

1 Cor. 12:28, 29 “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?”

Could he have meant "are all merely teachers?" Because I think any mature Christian should be able to teach when the opportunity presents itself. I believe the following scripture shows this:

Heb. 5:12 “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.”

Spiritual discernment may also be a universal gift. I would certainly hope so, anyway.

Well I think we have to read the Chapter in it's entirety. The Chapter as a whole is about the DIVERSITY in the Body of Christ. The whole point is that each member of the Body has a different gift and function within the Body,

Also there are other Scriptures that gets this message across:
Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts DIFFERING according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.


Here, we see James telling us if we call ourselves teachers we better be right in what we teach:

James 3:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

 

[Lafftur]

Hello sister! Love your humble spirit!

I'd like to address a few Scriptures and thoughts you have put forward here over the past couple of days.

Although I certainly agree that we can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit that has sealed us upon our NEW Birth, and that He can be more Present and tangible AT TIMES, which some may refer to as a filling or refilling of Him or the Holy Spirit "falling" on someone, I don't believe there is a difference between becoming a Born Again Child of God, being filled and sealed at that time by the Holy Spirit, and a separate event of Him Baptizing us in the Holy Spirit.

But I was intrigued by the Scripture you posted the other day, which seemed at 1st to in fact be a separate event:

Acts 8:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.

15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,

16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


I found a commentary that seemed to clear this up for me. It said that these people in Samaria were likely Baptized in the Name of Christ alone because of their contact with Jesus Himself when He was in that region, or the testimony of others like the woman at the well.

They may not even had known that Jesus was crucified, died and resurrected. So they may have believed He was the Messiah, the Son of God, but NOT the other necessary component of THE GOSPEL UNTO SALVATION!



I think the passage you cite above was for the Apostles themselves. Why would Paul say that some people would get the gift of teaching, and discernment, meaning some wouldn't, if EVERYBODY got those gifts, and NO ONE needed teachers with discernment?


Be Blessed!

Hello PennEd!

I love your humble spirit, too! You have always been a blessing.

When you seeked clarification, why did you go in search of commentaries?

Human reasoning can have a measure of truth but, it can also be an opinion.........to me, human reasoning found in most (not all) but most commentaries is blindness meaning it leads people away from truth into confusion and even division.

The ONLY ONE with the Truth you seek is the Holy Spirit - The Spirit of Truth. Try walking through the scriptures with NO COMMENTARIES, only the Holy Spirit.......seek Him and let Him teach you.

Feel free to read commentaries - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Feel free to go to any christian church you want - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Human reasoning speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as if they belong to us, they don't. Human reasoning brings division in the Body of Christ over the gifts.

All the gifts belong to the Holy Spirit and ONLY operated with Him. The gifts are for the whole Body of Christ, not just the Apostles. The Apostles were laying their hands on believers to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is for everyone in the Body of Christ - the power to testify and witness for Christ.

What I'm saying is .....let ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit flow freely and do not hinder or quench them. The gifts are distributed where they are needed which is not the same gift every where in the Body of Christ.

If we speak against the gifts and say they are not necessary or only for the Apostles, there is no way that would be the Will of God.

 

[PennEd]

Hello PennEd!

I love your humble spirit, too! You have always been a blessing.

When you seeked clarification, why did you go in search of commentaries?

Human reasoning can have a measure of truth but, it can also be an opinion.........to me, human reasoning found in most (not all) but most commentaries is blindness meaning it leads people away from truth into confusion and even division.

The ONLY ONE with the Truth you seek is the Holy Spirit - The Spirit of Truth. Try walking through the scriptures with NO COMMENTARIES, only the Holy Spirit.......seek Him and let Him teach you.

Feel free to read commentaries - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Feel free to go to any christian church you want - some of them are very interesting. Enjoy them but, when you seek Truth - go to the Holy Spirit.

Human reasoning speaks of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as if they belong to us, they don't. Human reasoning brings division in the Body of Christ over the gifts.

All the gifts belong to the Holy Spirit and ONLY operated with Him. The gifts are for the whole Body of Christ, not just the Apostles. The Apostles were laying their hands on believers to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is for everyone in the Body of Christ - the power to testify and witness for Christ.

What I'm saying is .....let ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit flow freely and do not hinder or quench them. The gifts are distributed where they are needed which is not the same gift every where in the Body of Christ.

If we speak against the gifts and say they are not necessary or only for the Apostles, there is no way that would be the Will of God.

First let me say I DID pray for wisdom and discernment over that passage. EVERY post WE write here MAKES US commentators, with our OWN mini commentaries.

Those people in Samaria were Baptized under John the Baptists Baptism. They believed in Jesus as Messiah. They were NOT Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When someone Baptizes another in those divine, precious Names they have in fact "laid their hands on them".

You are absolutely right that there is no perfect Church, or denomination. They are made up of fallible human Beings. But also brothers and sisters in Christ, that we are told NOT to abandon meeting together with. I have several, even doctrinal differences with my current Church of 7 yrs. But I know the Holy Spirit is Present there, so the differences almost never come up as they don't affect the true Gospel and core Christian beliefs I believe every Christian MUST have.

To see them, look up here the thread I started a while back called "Is there ANYBODY out there!"

 

[Lafftur]

First let me say I DID pray for wisdom and discernment over that passage. EVERY post WE write here MAKES US commentators, with our OWN mini commentaries.

Those people in Samaria were Baptized under John the Baptists Baptism. They believed in Jesus as Messiah. They were NOT Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. When someone Baptizes another in those divine, precious Names they have in fact "laid their hands on them".

You are absolutely right that there is no perfect Church, or denomination. They are made up of fallible human Beings. But also brothers and sisters in Christ, that we are told NOT to abandon meeting together with. I have several, even doctrinal differences with my current Church of 7 yrs. But I know the Holy Spirit is Present there, so the differences almost never come up as they don't affect the true Gospel and core Christian beliefs I believe every Christian MUST have.

To see them, look up here the thread I started a while back called "Is there ANYBODY out there!"

Exactly! Every book written about the Bible is a commentary, every post on CC is a commentary.....so why go to a commentary when you are searching for Truth?

I'm glad you prayed for wisdom and discernment but, did you ask for Truth?

When a person speaks or you read a commentary and what they say bears witness as truth to you, then hold on to it. Trust the Holy Spirit to not let you believe a lie. I simply rely totally on the Holy Spirit and find I mostly just enjoy the scriptures now.

I agree, churches are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we do not abandon meeting together. I would not even be on CC if I was abandoning fellowship with believers.

I'm just saying - the only one that can reveal Truth is the Holy Spirit and I encourage others to not abandon Him or quench Him but, rather desire and seek the Holy Spirit for Truth, know He is there.

Yeshua/Jesus is the Word of God that is True. The Bible is the Word of God - the Written Word. The Holy Spirit is the revealer, the Teacher of the Word of God - bearing witness in us to Truth.

Yeshua/Jesus would speak to crowds and then say, "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying." All understanding comes from the Holy Spirit - our Teacher - The Spirit of Truth.

I will go and find your thread, "Is there ANYBODY out there!" I'm sure I will enjoy reading it!