Not By Works

[YourTruthGod]

...Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Revelation 3:3

Why were these people in the church in Sardis told to remember what they have received and heard? Why do they have to obey it and REPENT? Don't these people have faith yet? Why were they not told to have faith? Isn't it because they are already believers?

If you already forgot what you have received and heard, Jesus commands you to OBEY IT, and REPENT.

I love this guy in Christ.

 

[Argueless]

...Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Revelation 3:3

Why were these people in the church in Sardis told to remember what they have received and heard? Why do they have to obey it and REPENT? Don't these people have faith yet? Why were they not told to have faith? Isn't it because they are already believers?

If you already forgot what you have received and heard, Jesus commands you to OBEY IT, and REPENT.

...See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. Children of God And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. 1 John 2:24-29

...And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. 2 John 1:6-11

...This is the message you heard from the beginning: WE SHOULD LOVE ONE ANOTHER. 1 John 3:11

 

[TruthTalk]

It looks like Paul DID DO some boasting...


2 Corinthians 11:16-33 New International Version (NIV)
Paul Boasts About His Sufferings
16 I repeat: Let no one take me for a fool. But if you do, then tolerate me just as you would a fool, so that I may do a little boasting.
17 In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool.
18 Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast.
19 You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!
20 In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves youor exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face.
21 To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!
Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about.
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again.
24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea,
26 I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers.
27 I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked.
28 Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness.
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.
32 In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me.
33 But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.
.............

The Apostle Paul was boasting in his weakness to make a point unlike some here who boast of their works to keep themselves saved -- as usual Fran spins the word of God to fit her false ideas and false gospel.

2 Corinthians 12:9,10
My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[dcontroversal]

I see I got like 42 negative mad faces by some charlatan.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I see you conveniently ignored the part where Jesus said a "dinner" or a "supper".

But, that's to be expected from one who is desperate to uphold the sham that he has stopped sinning.

One thing I have learned.....

a. Commandment/law pushers never obey the commands/laws or pick and choose which to obey

b. Workers for trust works over Christ

c. Salvation losers never lose salvation

d. Only those saved by grace through faith fully, all the time point to and give all glory to Jesus

 

[dcontroversal]

Presently about what he was before?

What a joke man. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Secret Agent Man revealed knowledge that few know or have........outta a cracker jack box that is!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yep. Thanks, Once again you prove you teach works

Jesus said he would NEVER let us go. We HAVE eternal life. We will NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He will LOSE NONE he even gave us the SEAL of the spirit as a pledge (until the day we are ressurected) We HAVE been justified. He even said we have not been given the spirit of fear but of a sound mind, and a father we can call our ABBA, John went as far to say the things he wrote, he wrote so we can KNOW we have eternal life. And on this FACT (which paul said in titus the God, who can not lie, promised before time began) is the basis for us to continue to entrust our lives to him , Paul said Jesus took all that was against us contrary to us, and nailed it to the cross. Having circumcized us with the circumcision made wiht out hands by the baptism of the spirit.

But hey, You go follow your God of fear.. I just pray you repent before you see him, Because you will not be happy if you do not.

Many will say in that day....Lord, Lord have we not done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME, blah, blah, blah

While they peddle works and self we will be pleading the blood, mercy, grace and faith....

Let's see who makes the cut.....!!

 

[Argueless]

Many will say in that day....Lord, Lord have we not done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME, blah, blah, blah

While they peddle works and self we will be pleading the blood, mercy, grace and faith....

Let's see who makes the cut.....!!

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

 

[mailmandan]

When I was a judaizer I used this argument too, its a poor argument.

Saved by "these" works (good works/works of obedience/works of faith/works done in the power of Christ etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the ceremonial law/circumcision/offerings etc..) certainly is a poor argument that is used by various works-salvationists and is a desperate attempt to "get around" the truth that man is saved through faith and not by works in general (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (in general) which is (not merely limited to specific works of the law) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to repent and believe the gospel. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[mailmandan]

The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

I hear this same argument from Roman Catholics and Campbellites who erroneously teach we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..) and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say that we are saved by belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. *So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.

Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James tells us faith alone cannot save a man.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.

Faith alone without works is dead. Our faith must be alive. Faith with obedience is living faith.

The works we do not have to do to justify ourselves is be circumcised, observe special days, and sacrifice animals. Those are the works that Paul is speaking about, but people misunderstand Paul to their destruction. What insanity it is to think Paul is rebuking people from obeying Jesus.
Peter tells us that people misunderstand Paul. Right after Peter says that, he warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

Abraham was saved by faith and that was before circumcision. The scriptures say Abraham believed in and obeyed God, even before circumcision!

Abraham was not saved by faith alone because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

The scriptures say that Abraham obeyed.

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” Genesis 26:4-5

James 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Faith alone is dead like a dead body.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Faith alone doesn't first save and then it was really real if later the person obeys something.

Go back and keep reading post #91,547 until the truth finally sinks in. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4578

 

[mailmandan]

He sure did. He boasted in himself and in others and said for us to do the same.

When the scriptures say so that no one can boast, it is about the purification works of the law, like circumcision.

You do a good job of boasting in yourself. As for me, I only boast in Christ. Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

All who have faith have repented.
But i guess thats above your head.

This is definitely a new combination of ideas.
And the answer is no. I know many who accept Jesus and have not repented at all.
Now there are many people desperate for salvation, and will do pilgrimages to prove their faith.
There are also some aesthetic who repent yet have no faith.

So repentance and faith are separate things.
But then if you say sin is irrelevant no matter how you live, faith is just accepting God, then
you can have faith alone, but it is not repentance.

Speaking biblically repentance is turning from sin and doing righteous acts

But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
Ezek 18:21

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.
But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life.
Ezek 18:26-27

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The strangest of things to me is those who claim to want to follow God, and scripture
lays out a clear statement of reality and how things work before God,
but their ideas are better than Gods.

It should be from that point forward Gods word predominates, but for these people no,
same stuff looking for another angle.

But then unbelievers never take God at His word, because Gods ways do not fit their ways.
Who would have thought sinners would do that?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Secret Agent Man revealed knowledge that few know or have........outta a cracker jack box that is!!!!

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

 

[YourTruthGod]

Many will say in that day....Lord, Lord have we not done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME, blah, blah, blah

While they peddle works and self we will be pleading the blood, mercy, grace and faith....

Let's see who makes the cut.....!!

Jesus said away from me you evildoers. It didn't matter that they said they cast out demons and prophesied in Jesus' name if they never repented of their sins to get saved.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Saved by "these" works (good works/works of obedience/works of faith/works done in the power of Christ etc..) and just not "those" works (works of the ceremonial law/circumcision/offerings etc..) certainly is a poor argument that is used by various works-salvationists and is a desperate attempt to "get around" the truth that man is saved through faith and not by works in general (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (in general) which is (not merely limited to specific works of the law) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to repent and believe the gospel. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

You can't enter the realm of the Spirit if you are not obeying the Word.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I hear this same argument from Roman Catholics and Campbellites who erroneously teach we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..) and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say that we are saved by belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. *So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Can we reason together? Tell me, is it ever reasonable to go against obeying someone in charge, let alone God?!
Just faith and not obedience is illogical.

 

[mailmandan]

You can't enter the realm of the Spirit if you are not obeying the Word.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

You have it backwards. Believers obey the Word BECAUSE they are in the realm of the Spirit.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You do a good job of boasting in yourself. As for me, I only boast in Christ. Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Boasting in the cross is about obedience: faith, confession, repenting of sins, dying to the sins of the world, being reconciled to God, having the Holy Spirit, living a new life pleasing God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see I got like 42 negative mad faces by some charlatan.....

I do not even pay attention to negative likes anymore..lol.