bible software is for lazy people. 
www.e-sword.net Is free but donations appreciated. If you can't? No problem.
www.e-sword.net Is free but donations appreciated. If you can't? No problem.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There is also Biblegateway and Biblehub.com
Paul is speaking about the works of the law for which circumcision is the sign:
Ephesians 2:11
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
It's about the works of the law for which circumcision is the sign:
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
The works Paul is speaking about is about circumcision:
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Ephesians 2:11
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
It's about the works of the law for which circumcision is the sign:
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
The works Paul is speaking about is about circumcision:
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
-
1
- Show all
There are no new revelations from God, and not only do you miss the mark on grace, you miss the mark in faith as well....make no mistake pal...your view is skewed and false.....nothing more than a johnny come lately deceiver peddling the same sinless perfectionist, working for, commandment keeping garbage the blind Pharisees espoused and peddled....!
Regardless of how you spin it!!
Regardless of how you spin it!!
-
4
- Show all
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:10-13
...The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, WHO LEADS THE WHOLE WORLD ASTRAY. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. Revelation 12:9
...See that WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING REMAINS IN YOU. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. I am writing these things to you about THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO LEAD YOU ASTRAY. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, REMAIN IN HIM. 1 John 2:24-27
... “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:1-6
One is lead astray if he does not remain in the vine/flock. if he do not stay close to the flock and wanders away from the flock, he will get lost.
As for a person being led astray by the false teachings of the false prophets and teachers who teach that OBEDIENCE TO GOD has no bearing in SALVATION, which implies that LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS has no bearing in salvation.
So what will happen?
...GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Ephesians 5:6
...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” Luke 3:9
...The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, WHO LEADS THE WHOLE WORLD ASTRAY. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. Revelation 12:9
...See that WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING REMAINS IN YOU. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. I am writing these things to you about THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO LEAD YOU ASTRAY. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, REMAIN IN HIM. 1 John 2:24-27
... “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:1-6
One is lead astray if he does not remain in the vine/flock. if he do not stay close to the flock and wanders away from the flock, he will get lost.
As for a person being led astray by the false teachings of the false prophets and teachers who teach that OBEDIENCE TO GOD has no bearing in SALVATION, which implies that LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS has no bearing in salvation.
So what will happen?
...GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Ephesians 5:6
...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” Luke 3:9
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Amen Rose, people that know the truth see right through his drivel.....He claims a special revealed knowledge....just another deceived deceiver working his way into the "MANY GROUPING" <--LORD LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE.....pay no heed to his false dogma, he has no understanding of faith and or grace.....
-
3
- Show all
Obeying God is not, "Christ is an IN-sufficient Savior so I must do something and add it as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save me." Choosing to believe the gospel in order to become saved is obeying God (Romans 1:16). Seeking salvation by works is not obeying God. (Ephesians 2:8,9) There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. AND doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
Straw man argument.
The righteousness of Christ is imputed to those who believe/place faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) and not to those who trust in works for salvation and remain in UNBELIEF. Perverting the gospel is not obeying God. You make it painfully obvious that you continue to trust in obedience/works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Apart from Christ, we are helpless.
Those who believe the gospel and are saved have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel. There is a difference between doing what God says IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED and doing what God says AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH. I can see that what I explained to you in regards to Matthew 18:3 in post #93,716 just went right over your head, as you continue to view everything through the lens of works salvation.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were unbelievers who did not repent, so their sin remains, hence the label, "evil doers." Apart from the blood of Christ, God would see all of us as evil doers because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Ask false prophets on TBN that question.
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved -- demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. *BTW the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach.
Of course it's never ever vain to obey God's Word, yet perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not obeying God's Word. You seem very over confident about being saved based on the merits of obedience/works and there is a reason for that.
Straw man argument.
The righteousness of Christ is imputed to those who believe/place faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) and not to those who trust in works for salvation and remain in UNBELIEF. Perverting the gospel is not obeying God. You make it painfully obvious that you continue to trust in obedience/works for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 3:23; 6:23). Apart from Christ, we are helpless.
Those who believe the gospel and are saved have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel. There is a difference between doing what God says IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED and doing what God says AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH. I can see that what I explained to you in regards to Matthew 18:3 in post #93,716 just went right over your head, as you continue to view everything through the lens of works salvation.
That statement is the epitome of irony.
These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were unbelievers who did not repent, so their sin remains, hence the label, "evil doers." Apart from the blood of Christ, God would see all of us as evil doers because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Ask false prophets on TBN that question.
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved -- demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. *BTW the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" (Strong's #5083) which means to (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists teach.
Of course it's never ever vain to obey God's Word, yet perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works is not obeying God's Word. You seem very over confident about being saved based on the merits of obedience/works and there is a reason for that.
Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel unto all nations and teach them to OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. (Matthew 28:18-20)
Now those who adhere to the Lord's instructions are called "IDIOTIC", WORKS SALVATIONISTS, SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS, SALVATION LOSERS ETC. Insulting and mocking the idea of OBEDIENCE TO GOD as PART OF SALVATION. (See Hebrews 5:7-9)
They are calling evil GOOD and good EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)
What is NOTICEABLE is how this people PROUDLY and CONTINUOUSLY calling themselves "SINNERS" even after claiming at the same time that they were BORN AGAIN of incorruptible seed.
(A double personality suffering from SCHIZOPHRENIA who love to DOUBLE TALK.)
I am not insulting or mocking anyone but just EXPOSING them to lead them to godly sorrow and somehow REPENT.
...When I say to a wicked man, ‘YOU WILL SURELY DIE,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to DISSUADE HIM FROM HIS EVIL WAYS in order TO SAVE HIS LIFE, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you ACCOUNTABLE for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do WARN the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, HE WILL SURELY LIVE because HE TOOK WARNING, and you will have saved yourself.” Ezekiel 3:18-21
... “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be SHAMEFULLY EXPOSED.” Revelation 16:15
...“YOU HAVE SAID HARSH THINGS AGAINST ME,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “THEY WILL BE MINE,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between THE RIGHTEOUS and THE WICKED, between THOSE WHO SERVE God and THOSE WHO DO NOT. Malachi 3:13-18
...I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE—
Romans 15:18
What are you teaching?
Aren't you leading believers to DISOBEY GOD?
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter NO ONE SHOULD WRONG HIS BROTHER OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIM. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. FOR GOD DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, HE WHO REJECTS THIS INSTRUCTION DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
...See to it that you DO NOT REFUSE HIM who speaks. IF THEY DID NOT ESCAPE when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM WHO WARNS US FROM HEAVEN? Hebrews 12:25
...The Spirit clearly says that in later times some WILL ABANDON THE FAITH and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Those who will ABANDON THEIR FAITH are those who CLAIM to have FAITH but without works...DEAD...NO POWER...
...“WHY do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and DO NOT DO WHAT I SAY? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and HEARS MY WORDS and PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and DOES NOT PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.” Luke 6:46-49
..."FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD."...James 2:26
...LET GOD BE TRUE...GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...(Romans 3:3-4 & Galatians 6:7-10)
If you really are obedient to God then teach us to OBEY GOD...what hinders you to do so and would rather attack those who continue in His teachings?
...On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:20-24
...Why do you call me "Lord, Lord", and do not do what I say?
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Believing has everything to do with getting saved (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..). You keep saying that believing is not enough which means that the OBJECT our belief/faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is not enough and is IN-sufficient to save, which explains why you turn to supplements. I'm not hearing anyone say don't obey God, but that seems to be all you hear from believers who teach salvation by grace through faith, not works and don't agree with your "works based" false gospel.
Faith that results in no action at all is not wonderful faith, but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith. (James 2:14) You must think that ALL faith is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation, which would explain why you have so much faith in works.
We are saved by a living faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:5-9) and this living faith results in obedience. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23).
I hear that and I already understand that. We are not saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works at all (James 2:14) and we are also not saved by faith and works. (Romans 4:5-6) Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. Simple!
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
I'm not denying that authentic faith in Christ results in obedience. What I'm denying is the false teaching that man is saved based on the merits of his obedience/works which follows faith in Christ.
This precedes saving faith in Christ. We will not come to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation unless we first humble ourself, repent and call on Jesus to save us.
If you understood exactly what I was saying, then you would not need to resort to straw man arguments or false accusations. Why would I need to consider harder what you are saying? I wasn't born again yesterday and I've heard all of your same arguments before from many others who promote salvation by works, so none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.
Catholics don't believe in salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE, but instead believe in salvation by faith (their version of faith) and works. Those who have been saved through faith have already humbled themselves and repented. Perverting the gospel stems from pride and NOT humility or repentance.
I will NEVER give up the true light found in Christ. Since you teach salvation by works, I don't expect you to understand the truth of my eye opening experience with the Lord. The apostle Paul clearly stated that the natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14). The apostle Paul also clearly stated that the gospel is HID to those who DON'T BELIEVE...lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). In 1 Corinthians 1:21, we read - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE. *That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT. Been there, done that, but now I BELIEVE. When will you BELIEVE?
Please explain to me EXACTLY how you believe you were saved. EXACTLY what did you believe or do that YOU believe constitutes your conclusion that you became saved? Just because you had a bad experience with a Christian discussion group that taught Calvinism doesn't mean that salvation through faith in Christ alone is false doctrine or that you found the true light. Do you realize how many false religions and cults fight against salvation through faith in Christ alone and teach salvation by works?
Faith that results in no action at all is not wonderful faith, but is an empty profession of faith/dead faith. (James 2:14) You must think that ALL faith is the same "except for the lack of works" and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation, which would explain why you have so much faith in works.
We are saved by a living faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:5-9) and this living faith results in obedience. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23).
I hear that and I already understand that. We are not saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works at all (James 2:14) and we are also not saved by faith and works. (Romans 4:5-6) Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. Simple!
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
I'm not denying that authentic faith in Christ results in obedience. What I'm denying is the false teaching that man is saved based on the merits of his obedience/works which follows faith in Christ.
This precedes saving faith in Christ. We will not come to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation unless we first humble ourself, repent and call on Jesus to save us.
If you understood exactly what I was saying, then you would not need to resort to straw man arguments or false accusations. Why would I need to consider harder what you are saying? I wasn't born again yesterday and I've heard all of your same arguments before from many others who promote salvation by works, so none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.
Catholics don't believe in salvation through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE, but instead believe in salvation by faith (their version of faith) and works. Those who have been saved through faith have already humbled themselves and repented. Perverting the gospel stems from pride and NOT humility or repentance.
I will NEVER give up the true light found in Christ. Since you teach salvation by works, I don't expect you to understand the truth of my eye opening experience with the Lord. The apostle Paul clearly stated that the natural man does not understand the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14). The apostle Paul also clearly stated that the gospel is HID to those who DON'T BELIEVE...lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). In 1 Corinthians 1:21, we read - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE. *That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT. Been there, done that, but now I BELIEVE. When will you BELIEVE?
Please explain to me EXACTLY how you believe you were saved. EXACTLY what did you believe or do that YOU believe constitutes your conclusion that you became saved? Just because you had a bad experience with a Christian discussion group that taught Calvinism doesn't mean that salvation through faith in Christ alone is false doctrine or that you found the true light. Do you realize how many false religions and cults fight against salvation through faith in Christ alone and teach salvation by works?
-
4
- Show all