The house of Israel

[JaumeJ]

The elect of God are many
They are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ
The prophets
The apostles
The disciples
They who do not defile with women
They who wash their robes in the great tribulation
They who refuse the mark
They who love him and keep his word
They who overcome
They who endure to the end
They who are sealed by the Holy Spirit
They who sanctify their faith in him
The martyred
The sheep who know his voice and heed his call
They that hear the knock at the door and sup with him
They that have his commandments written on their hearts and sealed in their foreheads as a signet
They that are called up before the antichrist for testimony of the Holy Spirit through them
His remnants he reserves in the worst of places.
Israel
Adopted Israel
Those that the angels seal
😀If you love him and keep his word you are his elect

A totally inspired and inspiring response. Like a breath of fresh air.

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.

Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.

Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.


Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.

Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.

Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.


Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.

I am in agreement with what you have posted. Do you also believe that God choose his elect before he formed the world? Do you believe that he choose his elect from a people that did not seek him and there was none that doeth good, no, not one? Do you believe that those that he gave his Son to die for were only his elect? Most people believe that God, by his foreknowledge, could see who would choose him and that is who he choose as his elect.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you believe that God has an elect people, if so, who are they and what scriptures uphold that fact?

God has TWO groups of elect people as I already indicated: (1) the Church and (2) redeemed and restored Israel. Read Revelation 7.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Can you explain to me why God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel? Why did God choose Jacob over Esau, was it not to show that God's election might stand? Is Jacob a representative of God's elect people?

God does elect individuals for specific purposes. Some examples:

Abraham over Lot
Isaac over Ishmael
Jacob over Esau
The twelve apostles, of which Judas was *elected* to betray Christ, and Paul was elected to replace Judas.

As to why God changed Jacob (the Supplanter) to Israel (a prince with God and men) we need to see that God foreknew that Jacob would eventually become a man of faith, whereas Esau would remain a profane person.

 

[Grandpa]

I am in agreement with what you have posted. Do you also believe that God choose his elect before he formed the world?

Yes. That's what the bible says.

Although I can't say I 100% understand how or why.

Do you believe that he choose his elect from a people that did not seek him and there was none that doeth good, no, not one?

Yes.

Do you believe that those that he gave his Son to die for were only his elect?

Yes.

Most people believe that God, by his foreknowledge, could see who would choose him and that is who he choose as his elect.

That is people trying to be God and not God actually being God.

God chooses Whom He Will Choose and Election stands.

If we don't like it what exactly are we going to do about it? Pout?

Romans 9:20-24
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[SIMON55]

Which is why I specified Daniel Chapter 12. For one, this is where the "Daily Sacrifice" is mentioned at midpoint of the Great Tribulation. Chapter 12:1 brings us to Revelation with Michael booting the Adversary out of Heaven for good. The rest of Chapter 12 can be tied to more of Revelation's and to things Paul wrote about. But even more significantly in my view, the Book of Enoch Chapter 1 also ties into Daniel, Revelation's and what Paul wrote about concerning the End Times.

Well Daniel 12 and Revelation neither definitely say a new physical temple will be built and some will argue Thes.2:3-4.....but Paul has more verses that say we are the temple of God than indicate a temple will be built.....
All of this is why I asked the question not that I have never read an abomination that makes desolate and takes away sacrifice will occur at mid trib......
.........The real question is whether these things are actual physical or spiritual because.....Rev. 22:19-22 says there will be a New Jerusalem and I SAW NO TEMPLE THEREIN........!
According to scripture constructing a new temple is pointless.....and mamy would argue this with you were you to start a thread asking if their will be another temple built because.......
Christ has become the new temple and he destroyed the old one.....because it served GOD NAUGHT.....
..........Paul argues the same
But..... The fact remains there exists no scripture that definitely says another temple will be built....
..........Point anywhere you like it won't show it definitely it has been unsuccessfully debated forever and remains an undecided point of contention as I said that a whole thread could run off of.
But if you believe you have a scripturally persuasive support and case for it I for one would certainly be open to considering it......otherwise if I wasn't open minded I would have just said it would never happen.....
.......But my opinion is there is no real point to its physical construction.....😀

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God does elect individuals for specific purposes. Some examples:

Abraham over Lot
Isaac over Ishmael
Jacob over Esau
The twelve apostles, of which Judas was *elected* to betray Christ, and Paul was elected to replace Judas.

As to why God changed Jacob (the Supplanter) to Israel (a prince with God and men) we need to see that God foreknew that Jacob would eventually become a man of faith, whereas Esau would remain a profane person.

According to Psalms 53:2-3, By God's foreknowledge, he saw that no one would seek him. Every one of the is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Do you have a scripture that says God foreknew that Jacob would become a man of faith?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes. That's what the bible says.

Although I can't say I 100% understand how or why.


Yes.


Yes.


That is people trying to be God and not God actually being God.

God chooses Whom He Will Choose and Election stands.

If we don't like it what exactly are we going to do about it? Pout?

Romans 9:20-24
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Grandpa, It is hard to believe that I have found someone that interprets the scriptures so closely to how I interpret them. Do you believe that the scriptures teach that there are different applications of salvation, one being an eternal deliverance and that they signify several deliverance's we receive as we live here in this world?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Just to put your thinking cap on:

From Book of Enoch, we know Abraham lived with Noah and Ham.

From our Bible, we know Abraham had Ishmael (Muslim), and we know after Sarah died, Abraham married a woman whose descendant was what would be today, Muslim. His children's names from this woman are names of mountain ranges in Muslim Land.

So, we also know from the Koran, it's based off the ideas of Abraham ----it get's screwy after the ideas of Mohammed are introduced.

But, Abraham taught the Muslim People, his own family, that God was the God of MERCY, endless Mercy. God was Abraham's personal High Priest, Melchizedek. God had Endless Mercy upon Abraham. But this is where we understand that Allah is Merciful. If you remove the teachings of Mohammed, you have the basics of what Abraham taught them, like he taught his Hebrew son and grandson.

MERCY, is the Old Testament's version of the New Testament's Grace!!

I perceive that you know some history of natural Israel, but your understanding of Spiritual Israel (Jacob - the elect) could stand some more studying.

 

[Nehemiah6]

According to Psalms 53:2-3, By God's foreknowledge, he saw that no one would seek him. Every one of the is gone back; they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Do you have a scripture that says God foreknew that Jacob would become a man of faith?

Not according to foreknowledge, but according to Divine knowledge -- omniscience.

ALL MEN ARE SINNERS
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Ps 53:2,3)

ALL MEN MAY BE SAVED (ROMANS 10)
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE ELECTED (PREDESTINED) TO BE PERFECTED AND GLORIFIED
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The elect of God are many
They are they who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ
The prophets
The apostles
The disciples
They who do not defile with women
They who wash their robes in the great tribulation
They who refuse the mark
They who love him and keep his word
They who overcome
They who endure to the end
They who are sealed by the Holy Spirit
They who sanctify their faith in him
The martyred
The sheep who know his voice and heed his call
They that hear the knock at the door and sup with him
They that have his commandments written on their hearts and sealed in their foreheads as a signet
They that are called up before the antichrist for testimony of the Holy Spirit through them
His remnants he reserves in the worst of places.
Israel
Adopted Israel
Those that the angels seal
😀If you love him and keep his word you are his elect

Are you saying that they become the elect because they keep the commandments, or, are you saying that because God choose them to be his elect is why they keep his commandments?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Not according to foreknowledge, but according to Divine knowledge -- omniscience.

ALL MEN ARE SINNERS
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Ps 53:2,3)

ALL MEN MAY BE SAVED (ROMANS 10)
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE ELECTED (PREDESTINED) TO BE PERFECTED AND GLORIFIED
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:29,30)

Salvation, according to the Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". The scriptures teach that there is an eternal deliverance and that there are many deliverance's we receive here on earth. Our eternal deliverance is by the grace of God, without man's choice and the deliverance's we receive here on earth is by our good works in following God's commandments. Romans 10, verse 1 - BRETHREN, his brothers in Christ) My hearts desire and prayer to Israel (Jacob - spiritual Israel) is that they might be delivered (saved here in this world) For I bear them record that they have a ZEAL (the natural man as described does, in 1 Cor 2:14, not have a zeal of God) of God, but not according to Knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness (by their works), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The whole chapter 10 has reference to a salvation (deliverance) they receive here on earth by understanding what Paul is teaching them about God's righteousness. Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (regenerated children) that they might be saved (delivered) from their lack of knowledge of God's righteousness.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

A bit of history

Matt 1:2 (A) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob

Jacob's name is changed to Israel: Gen 32:28-30 & 35:10

Jacob/Israel has 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph & Benjamin. The 12 sons are then referred to as the 12 Tribes.

Each son/tribe (except Levi) is given a portion of land within Israels God given land. Levi or the Levites, are chosen to be Priests Of God. They get no land, animals, fruit trees etc. Each of the other tribe's are commanded to give 1 tenth of its wealth increases to support the Priesthood/Levites.

The house of Jacob/Nation of Israel, stays united with Jerusalem as its capital, thru King Solomon's reign. After Solomon dies, his son Rehoboam attempts to succeed him. 10 of the 12 tribes/sons revolt (1 Kings 12). Only 2 tribes Judah & Benjamin remained loyal to Rehoboam. Although, still called Israel, the house of Israel, or the Northern Kingdom. Their capital becomes Samaria. Judah & Benjamin, the 2 tribes/sons that stayed loyal to Rehoboam. Are now referred to as Judah, the house of Judah or the Southern Kingdom. Find additional history on the 2 kingdoms throughout the books of Kings 1 & 2

You have a pretty good knowledge of the history of natural Israel, but I feel you are lacking in your understanding of Spiritual Israel (Jacob and God's elect).

 

[SIMON55]

Are you saying that they become the elect because they keep the commandments, or, are you saying that because God choose them to be his elect is why they keep his commandments?

I would say the broad grouping would include both wouldn't you brother ?
I do believe God is all about both predetermination and his Holy Spirit saving all the lost sinners he can before the door of probation closes.
I firmly believe our Father loves us ......otherwise why would he visit and heal and save the lost soul of a drunkard like myself ???
In order that I might serve to help a few others ????
I believe Christ suffered and died for everyone who would come to faith in him.....
Some are destined and some hear is call some he intentionally seeks out to fulfill his purposes.....
I don't sweat which are which.....I just know his power is unequaled....and he can make sons of Abraham from rocks and Armies from dry bones.....he is unlimited and can take the worst of the worst and Elect them to be whatever his pleasure is !!!
I have personally felt and experienced the indiscribable power.....so.....I......KNOW !!!
.............I can't claim to just walking by Faith......
I love him for saving my life and I walk in Faith of knowing he did......so it doesn't matter to me if I am the least of the least....
............What matters to me is his loving mercy is so unlimited that he loved me and my life enough to save me.....and for that I am eternally greatful....even if my job is to wash the feet of his elect.....I would gladly do it.
Because of all that he has done for me !!!😀
Praise Be To Gods Great Gloriful Power and our Salvation in Christ !!!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Well Daniel 12 and Revelation neither definitely say a new physical temple will be built and some will argue Thes.2:3-4.....but Paul has more verses that say we are the temple of God than indicate a temple will be built.....
All of this is why I asked the question not that I have never read an abomination that makes desolate and takes away sacrifice will occur at mid trib......
.........The real question is whether these things are actual physical or spiritual because.....Rev. 22:19-22 says there will be a New Jerusalem and I SAW NO TEMPLE THEREIN........!
According to scripture constructing a new temple is pointless.....and mamy would argue this with you were you to start a thread asking if their will be another temple built because.......
Christ has become the new temple and he destroyed the old one.....because it served GOD NAUGHT.....
..........Paul argues the same
But..... The fact remains there exists no scripture that definitely says another temple will be built....
..........Point anywhere you like it won't show it definitely it has been unsuccessfully debated forever and remains an undecided point of contention as I said that a whole thread could run off of.
But if you believe you have a scripturally persuasive support and case for it I for one would certainly be open to considering it......otherwise if I wasn't open minded I would have just said it would never happen.....
.......But my opinion is there is no real point to its physical construction.....😀

I agree there is no mention of a 3rd Temple being built. But 2 things I look at, (1). Who mentions "Daily Sacrifice," which in verse 12 is Yeshua. And (2). What does "Daily Sacrifice" relate to (it only happens in the Temple).

Daily Sacrifice only takes place in a physical Temple. Yeshua makes it clear, that Daily Sacrifice will happen in the first part of the Great Tribulation. And around midpoint of the Great Tribulation, the antichrist will stop the Jews from practicing their Daily Sacrifice. This is when the Jews discover the antichrist is not the Messiah (Revelation's Chapter 12 goes in detail concerning this).

If I were a betting man from just what we read in Daniel Chapter 12, I would say a Temple must be in place somewhere around the beginning of the Great Tribulation for "Daily Sacrifice" to begin, so it can be stopped by the antichrist around midpoint!!

 

[obedienttogod]

I perceive that you know some history of natural Israel, but your understanding of Spiritual Israel (Jacob - the elect) could stand some more studying.

Nah, I just am not wasting my time here with you on this is all. I understand the dynamics rather well. Interesting enough, this is a hot topic in most Christian based Universities. I just do not see the reasoning for putting the effort in, when you aren't grasping the simple context of God's Endless Mercy. Which covet's Israel, not denies her nor forsakes her. If ultimately God was going to push Israel aside for the Gentiles, He would not have wasted His time having His Disciple (Peter) be in charge to bring the Gospel to the Jews. James (1/2 bro of Yeshua) even created a Council. Here they decided what the Gentiles needed to do to keep in the fold.

God sure invested time into many Jews to do His bidding for Him to spread the Gospel (to both Jew/Gentile). If He was completely done with Israel, there would be NO JEW DISCIPLES or APOSTLE'S. And yet, Yeshua drove Paul to teach both the Jew and Gentile.

There is way too much trying to save Jewish souls going on in the Book of Acts to think God actually put Israel aside.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Romans 10, verse 1 - BRETHREN, his brothers in Christ) My hearts desire and prayer to Israel (Jacob - spiritual Israel) is that they might be delivered (saved here in this world)

FGC,

You wanted to know the honest truth about "the house of Israel", not the DISHONEST REINTERPRETATIONS of men. Now you have taken Roman 10:1 and turned it on its head in order to fit your theology, rather than making your theology conform to the Word of God.

Who is Paul talking about in Romans 10:1?

The Jews who rejected Christ. "That they might be saved" means exactly what it says. That the might be saved from Hell, from damnation, from eternal separation from God. NOT "saved here in the world" (which means absolutely nothing).

How do we know that these are the unsaved Jews who were attempting to establish their own righteousness through the deeds of the Law?

1. ...they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....

2. ...[they are] going about to establish their own righteousness...

3. ...they being ignorant of God's righteousness...

4. [they] have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God...

And because this did not fit your theology you called them *spiritual Israel* when they are the EXACT OPPOSITE.

So now you have to sit down with yourself and make a MAJOR DECISION. Will you believe God regardless of all your indoctrination, and throw away all that theological baggage, or will you wilfully reject what Scripture says and go on promoting false doctrines?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

So therefore, I disagree God has completely disregarded His Chosen People. He has them in place for End Time Events. The setting for Revelation's Chapter 12 is in place. We just now need God to decide, this is the DAY I begin the Final Count Down!!

Would you please explain your interpretation of Revelation Chapter 12? I wish not to start a new debate. I have nothing to add, I just want clarity and understanding for myself. Thank you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I would say the broad grouping would include both wouldn't you brother ?
I do believe God is all about both predetermination and his Holy Spirit saving all the lost sinners he can before the door of probation closes.
I firmly believe our Father loves us ......otherwise why would he visit and heal and save the lost soul of a drunkard like myself ???
In order that I might serve to help a few others ????
I believe Christ suffered and died for everyone who would come to faith in him.....
Some are destined and some hear is call some he intentionally seeks out to fulfill his purposes.....
I don't sweat which are which.....I just know his power is unequaled....and he can make sons of Abraham from rocks and Armies from dry bones.....he is unlimited and can take the worst of the worst and Elect them to be whatever his pleasure is !!!
I have personally felt and experienced the indiscribable power.....so.....I......KNOW !!!
.............I can't claim to just walking by Faith......
I love him for saving my life and I walk in Faith of knowing he did......so it doesn't matter to me if I am the least of the least....
............What matters to me is his loving mercy is so unlimited that he loved me and my life enough to save me.....and for that I am eternally greatful....even if my job is to wash the feet of his elect.....I would gladly do it.
Because of all that he has done for me !!!😀
Praise Be To Gods Great Gloriful Power and our Salvation in Christ !!!!

Sounds to me like you are one of his elect. I believe the scriptures to teach that we are all born into this world as totally depraved sinners because of Adam's disobedience. 1 Cor 2:14 describes our situation until God regenerates us by putting a new heart within us along with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Eph 2:5). This new birth was done totally by God's sovereign grace and not man's choice. After we have this new heart, we then seek to please God and to learn more about his love for us, his elect.