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Faith (pistis G4102) isn't about seeing Jesus OR the beast; it's about absolute assurance that we are free from the death of sin by His shed blood... in THIS life and in the life to come. I have no faith in the beast or whore or any other apocalyptic figure, or about seeing him/them at ANY point, much less first. NOW faith is the substance (hupostasis G5287) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. My faith is in knowing I've received His righteousness as my own NOW. The resurrection is the final manifestation of His promise of life eternal. Faith isn't seeing Jesus.
You mistake soulish assent to a concept or teaching as true vital salvific faith. Your "version" of Pre-Trib rapture isn't even the mainline teaching. This is a doctrine of fear, not faith; especially your interpretation.
There aren't three comings. Pre-Tribbers say the rapture isn't a coming because saints meet Him in the air. That's a coming. If intergalactic aliens were in the lower atmosphere of our planet, that is a coming of aliens.
One should learn the origin and history of this teaching before espousing it as truth.
You mistake soulish assent to a concept or teaching as true vital salvific faith. Your "version" of Pre-Trib rapture isn't even the mainline teaching. This is a doctrine of fear, not faith; especially your interpretation.
There aren't three comings. Pre-Tribbers say the rapture isn't a coming because saints meet Him in the air. That's a coming. If intergalactic aliens were in the lower atmosphere of our planet, that is a coming of aliens.
One should learn the origin and history of this teaching before espousing it as truth.
The PreTribulation eschatology that’s being pushed, "Left Behind", is a recent invention. It was initially dreamed up by a 19th-century Englishman named John Nelson Darby and popularized in the United States by Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, who integrated the view into the footnotes of his immensely popular Scofield Reference Bible, first published in 1909 and still in use today.
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A "particular interpretation of Christ's return ... was developed by an Irish Protestant, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)." Darby saw a second coming of Christ, which he "believed would precede the time of troubles, or 'tribulation,' mentioned in several New Testament passages, [which] he called the 'secret rapture.' It would be perceptible only to the true Christians, both living and dead, who would be united with Christ and protected from the tribulation. This rapture could occur at any time, Darby felt, a belief which added a sense of immediacy to his message. The prophecies relating to non-Christians, such as the binding of Satan and the Battle of Armageddon, would occur later. Christ would come a third time and conclude the history of the world. Furthermore, Darby believed that no denomination could encompass all of the present and past Christians who would be caught up in the secret rapture; hence, he believed that the true church was a spiritual entity, not a physically perceptible structure.
Finally, like many other nineteenth-century millenarians and nonmillenarians, Darby divided the history of the world into a series of eras, or 'dispensations.'
"Geographically, the doctrine moved from its original foothold in the large cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis to the northeast and Midwest. Later it spread to the West and South, where it is very strong still.
The doctrine is not taught in the liberal Protestant denominations but is taught in independent nondenominational and full-gospel churches and in some evangelical churches. Fundamentalist churches do not realize how relatively new the doctrines are."
"Darby began to develop his seven-age dispensationalism about this time. By 1835 he added 'secret rapture,' and had gradually added dispensations up to 1838
Darby's "system eventually became known as 'dispensationalism,' although it is more properly described as 'seven age dispensationalism' to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5)....
~
...to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'"
(Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
~
A "particular interpretation of Christ's return ... was developed by an Irish Protestant, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)." Darby saw a second coming of Christ, which he "believed would precede the time of troubles, or 'tribulation,' mentioned in several New Testament passages, [which] he called the 'secret rapture.' It would be perceptible only to the true Christians, both living and dead, who would be united with Christ and protected from the tribulation. This rapture could occur at any time, Darby felt, a belief which added a sense of immediacy to his message. The prophecies relating to non-Christians, such as the binding of Satan and the Battle of Armageddon, would occur later. Christ would come a third time and conclude the history of the world. Furthermore, Darby believed that no denomination could encompass all of the present and past Christians who would be caught up in the secret rapture; hence, he believed that the true church was a spiritual entity, not a physically perceptible structure.
Finally, like many other nineteenth-century millenarians and nonmillenarians, Darby divided the history of the world into a series of eras, or 'dispensations.'
"Geographically, the doctrine moved from its original foothold in the large cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis to the northeast and Midwest. Later it spread to the West and South, where it is very strong still.
The doctrine is not taught in the liberal Protestant denominations but is taught in independent nondenominational and full-gospel churches and in some evangelical churches. Fundamentalist churches do not realize how relatively new the doctrines are."
"Darby began to develop his seven-age dispensationalism about this time. By 1835 he added 'secret rapture,' and had gradually added dispensations up to 1838
Darby's "system eventually became known as 'dispensationalism,' although it is more properly described as 'seven age dispensationalism' to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5)....
~
...to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'"
(Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
L
Jesus made that VERY PLAIN, if you don't forgive, then neither will the Father forgive you. Is that difficult to understand?
Mark 11:26
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Don't even THINK anyone will go up in the rapture if the Father has not forgiven them! It will not happen.
Shall I add to the list?
If anyone is living in fornication, and not repented, thinking God will look the other way, they will not go up in the rapture either!
If anyone LIES and does not repent, same story. It is written that liars have their part in the lake of fire.
Many Christians IGNORE these scriptures.
Jesus is coming for people 100% SOLD OUT to HIM. If someone loves the world, or things in the world, they are not qualified for the rapture.
Coop
Mark 11:26
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Don't even THINK anyone will go up in the rapture if the Father has not forgiven them! It will not happen.
Shall I add to the list?
If anyone is living in fornication, and not repented, thinking God will look the other way, they will not go up in the rapture either!
If anyone LIES and does not repent, same story. It is written that liars have their part in the lake of fire.
Many Christians IGNORE these scriptures.
Jesus is coming for people 100% SOLD OUT to HIM. If someone loves the world, or things in the world, they are not qualified for the rapture.
Coop
L
You are CONFUSING two different things: it is one thing to be born again - it is yet another thing to be qualified for the rapture. They are NOT THE SAME. It is VERY EASY to get born again. But it is not so easy to live a holy life. Did you not read that "holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." Those that go up in the rapture will SEE Him.
Did you never read?
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
How long has it been since you heard this verse preached? What I am teaching comes STRAIGHT from the word of God. I guess you can read as well as I can.
Let's see about "coming..."
1 Thes. 4
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
if anyone says this is NOT a coming, it is plain they have trouble reading. OF COURSE it is a coming. But it is NOT THE SAME coming as we read in Rev. 19. Anyone that can read can also know this.
By the way, the ORIGIN of this teaching is the bible itself. Don't be confused by rumors. Paul taught it, and John confirmed it. Jesus is coming FIRST for His bride.
Coop
Did you never read?
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
How long has it been since you heard this verse preached? What I am teaching comes STRAIGHT from the word of God. I guess you can read as well as I can.
Let's see about "coming..."
1 Thes. 4
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
if anyone says this is NOT a coming, it is plain they have trouble reading. OF COURSE it is a coming. But it is NOT THE SAME coming as we read in Rev. 19. Anyone that can read can also know this.
By the way, the ORIGIN of this teaching is the bible itself. Don't be confused by rumors. Paul taught it, and John confirmed it. Jesus is coming FIRST for His bride.
Coop
L
The PreTribulation eschatology that’s being pushed, "Left Behind", is a recent invention. It was initially dreamed up by a 19th-century Englishman named John Nelson Darby and popularized in the United States by Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, who integrated the view into the footnotes of his immensely popular Scofield Reference Bible, first published in 1909 and still in use today.
~
A "particular interpretation of Christ's return ... was developed by an Irish Protestant, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)." Darby saw a second coming of Christ, which he "believed would precede the time of troubles, or 'tribulation,' mentioned in several New Testament passages, [which] he called the 'secret rapture.' It would be perceptible only to the true Christians, both living and dead, who would be united with Christ and protected from the tribulation. This rapture could occur at any time, Darby felt, a belief which added a sense of immediacy to his message. The prophecies relating to non-Christians, such as the binding of Satan and the Battle of Armageddon, would occur later. Christ would come a third time and conclude the history of the world. Furthermore, Darby believed that no denomination could encompass all of the present and past Christians who would be caught up in the secret rapture; hence, he believed that the true church was a spiritual entity, not a physically perceptible structure.
Finally, like many other nineteenth-century millenarians and nonmillenarians, Darby divided the history of the world into a series of eras, or 'dispensations.'
"Geographically, the doctrine moved from its original foothold in the large cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis to the northeast and Midwest. Later it spread to the West and South, where it is very strong still.
The doctrine is not taught in the liberal Protestant denominations but is taught in independent nondenominational and full-gospel churches and in some evangelical churches. Fundamentalist churches do not realize how relatively new the doctrines are."
"Darby began to develop his seven-age dispensationalism about this time. By 1835 he added 'secret rapture,' and had gradually added dispensations up to 1838
Darby's "system eventually became known as 'dispensationalism,' although it is more properly described as 'seven age dispensationalism' to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5)....
~
...to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'"
(Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
~
A "particular interpretation of Christ's return ... was developed by an Irish Protestant, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)." Darby saw a second coming of Christ, which he "believed would precede the time of troubles, or 'tribulation,' mentioned in several New Testament passages, [which] he called the 'secret rapture.' It would be perceptible only to the true Christians, both living and dead, who would be united with Christ and protected from the tribulation. This rapture could occur at any time, Darby felt, a belief which added a sense of immediacy to his message. The prophecies relating to non-Christians, such as the binding of Satan and the Battle of Armageddon, would occur later. Christ would come a third time and conclude the history of the world. Furthermore, Darby believed that no denomination could encompass all of the present and past Christians who would be caught up in the secret rapture; hence, he believed that the true church was a spiritual entity, not a physically perceptible structure.
Finally, like many other nineteenth-century millenarians and nonmillenarians, Darby divided the history of the world into a series of eras, or 'dispensations.'
"Geographically, the doctrine moved from its original foothold in the large cities of New York, Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis to the northeast and Midwest. Later it spread to the West and South, where it is very strong still.
The doctrine is not taught in the liberal Protestant denominations but is taught in independent nondenominational and full-gospel churches and in some evangelical churches. Fundamentalist churches do not realize how relatively new the doctrines are."
"Darby began to develop his seven-age dispensationalism about this time. By 1835 he added 'secret rapture,' and had gradually added dispensations up to 1838
Darby's "system eventually became known as 'dispensationalism,' although it is more properly described as 'seven age dispensationalism' to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5)....
~
...to distinguish it from the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'" (Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
the biblical 'two age dispensationalism' that recognizes two 'ages'"
(Mt. 12:32, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 6:5).
You can put any title you wish on it - but it is pure fact: God dealt with people DIFFERENTLY before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection than he did before. The rules changed. We are not under law. They called it dispensations. I think a dictionary definition would bare that out.
As for the pretrib rapture doctrine, you are totally mistaken. What? Would you say that Martin Luther INVENTED salvation by faith? It may appear that he did, but that was TRUTH from the day Jesus rose from the dead. So the doctrine of the pretrib rapture was true, from the day Paul wrote about it.
Coop
YOU ARE GETTING CONFUSED HERE , NOT KNOWING THAT THERE IS A RESURECTION OF THE
FIRST FRUITS , FIRST, THATS WHY IT IS CALLED THE FIRSTS ,THEY ARE THEM THAT HAVE BEEN
SEALED( REV.CH.7 AND CH.14.). THEY ARE THEM THAT ARE TAKEN UP BEFORE THE TRUMPETS
SOUND.THEY ARE SPARINGLY, TAKEN UP( TWO IN THE FIELD ONE TAKEN, TWO IN BED , ONE TAKEN)
ONLY THEM WILL MEAT THE LORD IN THE AIR AT HIS COMING.
THE MAJORITY WILL HAVE TO GO TROUGH TRIB. BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN DECEIVED.
THEY HAVE BEEN ASLEEP SPIRITUALLY. SO PUT SOME OIL IN YOUR LAMPS.
ONCE YOU ARE BABTISED AND SAVED YOU HAVE GOT THE TICKET TO HEAVEN
NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU ARE SECURED, JUST PRAISE THE LORD
GRACE IS GIVEN FREE NO WORKS NEEDED ,BECAUSE IT IS GIVEN TO US FREELY.
LETS JUST SING SONGS TO THE LORD THAT WILL MAKE HIM HAPPY.
WE LOVE YOU LORD LOOK WE ARE SINGING SONGS PRAISING YOU.
WAKEUP
I'm confused by nothing in this regard, and have no intention of arguing this ridiculous elitist pseudo-gnostic supplanting of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ; I'm just briefly responding for the sake of others. Your handling of scripture shows no language knowledge whatsoever, like your reference to Philippians 2:12.
Yes, we are to walk holy, righteous, and upright; not using grace as a license to sin. But the Gospel isn't about fearfully qualifying for some special event. If "faith" is believing in a future event, that's not salvific faith.
The origin of Pre-Trib Rupture is NOT Paul and John. I could post a thesis-length expose with volumes of scripture, but it would be an exercise in futility. People believe what they know rather than knowing what to believe.
Yes, we are to walk holy, righteous, and upright; not using grace as a license to sin. But the Gospel isn't about fearfully qualifying for some special event. If "faith" is believing in a future event, that's not salvific faith.
The origin of Pre-Trib Rupture is NOT Paul and John. I could post a thesis-length expose with volumes of scripture, but it would be an exercise in futility. People believe what they know rather than knowing what to believe.