Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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There is a difference between me feeling convinced about something and this evaporating,
and being convinced about something that results in change and a cost.
Look at faith from Gods perspective.
Who should be saved and what will work in heaven?
If whatever people have on earth does not work, it will not work anywhere else.
Imagine this. A man has a problem every time he meets someone he wants to pound them into the ground
and does so.
To force this man to change, would destroy them.
They come to faith. They meet someone and still they want to pound them into the ground and does so.
Another man with the same problem comes to faith, and now they love those they meet and want to
help and serve them and does so.
Now which has the true faith that has changed them from a disfunctional individual into a child of heaven?
Heaven has always been about heavenly attitudes and behaviour, walking in His ways and attitudes from
the heart. But it all starts with faith and a heart change.
and being convinced about something that results in change and a cost.
Look at faith from Gods perspective.
Who should be saved and what will work in heaven?
If whatever people have on earth does not work, it will not work anywhere else.
Imagine this. A man has a problem every time he meets someone he wants to pound them into the ground
and does so.
To force this man to change, would destroy them.
They come to faith. They meet someone and still they want to pound them into the ground and does so.
Another man with the same problem comes to faith, and now they love those they meet and want to
help and serve them and does so.
Now which has the true faith that has changed them from a disfunctional individual into a child of heaven?
Heaven has always been about heavenly attitudes and behaviour, walking in His ways and attitudes from
the heart. But it all starts with faith and a heart change.
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this is a doctrine that came in the reformation and was copied from the guy who made it up augustine. osas once saved always saved. or should i say once saved always deceived
just reading the bible by yourself and comparing the my sheep hear my voice they shall never perish verses with the ones teaching that people leave the faith will show the truth. there are two kinds of once saved always saved teachings around, one is not lawlessness and other one is. the good kind is the calvinist kind where real saints persevere in the faith and produce fruit which is evidence of salvation. the evil one is the one where you claim to believe or believe once but then apostate from the faith and openly deny Christ and blaspheme His holy name and still are saved. im glad the latter is in the minority today. its gnostic philosophy they believe soul is saved but sin is in the flesh and you cant help it.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...each-the-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved/
all the warnings in the bible to be steadfast and immovable and if you remain and if yo continue would be vain if osas was true. its comforting but sadly mistaken.
there is security of salvation to those who follow Jesus. its very simplictiy. remain stedfast brethren, as paul states.
just reading the bible by yourself and comparing the my sheep hear my voice they shall never perish verses with the ones teaching that people leave the faith will show the truth. there are two kinds of once saved always saved teachings around, one is not lawlessness and other one is. the good kind is the calvinist kind where real saints persevere in the faith and produce fruit which is evidence of salvation. the evil one is the one where you claim to believe or believe once but then apostate from the faith and openly deny Christ and blaspheme His holy name and still are saved. im glad the latter is in the minority today. its gnostic philosophy they believe soul is saved but sin is in the flesh and you cant help it.
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...each-the-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved/
all the warnings in the bible to be steadfast and immovable and if you remain and if yo continue would be vain if osas was true. its comforting but sadly mistaken.
there is security of salvation to those who follow Jesus. its very simplictiy. remain stedfast brethren, as paul states.
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i will not even entertain such arguments dear friend, i say it in love. its the same merry go round
how many good works, how much sin is too much, works salvation, its not of works, not by works of righteousness we have done, saved by faith. everyone knows these verses and all the how many good works argument is just philosophy. there are other verses in the bible also.
people can never earn their way to heaven, God's grace is always needed. titus 2:11 says God's grace has appeared to all men teaching us to deny godliness and worldly lusts in this present evil world. but if we choose to disregard God's grace, that is not God's fault.
contrary to the false accusation from osad camp, those who have repented are not boasting in their works and their hearts are humbled, godly sorrow gets rid of pride.
the godly sorrow repentance humbles the heart, and the heart wants to yield to Christ and obey Him, its second nature, born again, not skin of their teeth works. my yoke is easy. his commands not heavy.
how many good works, how much sin is too much, works salvation, its not of works, not by works of righteousness we have done, saved by faith. everyone knows these verses and all the how many good works argument is just philosophy. there are other verses in the bible also.
people can never earn their way to heaven, God's grace is always needed. titus 2:11 says God's grace has appeared to all men teaching us to deny godliness and worldly lusts in this present evil world. but if we choose to disregard God's grace, that is not God's fault.
contrary to the false accusation from osad camp, those who have repented are not boasting in their works and their hearts are humbled, godly sorrow gets rid of pride.
the godly sorrow repentance humbles the heart, and the heart wants to yield to Christ and obey Him, its second nature, born again, not skin of their teeth works. my yoke is easy. his commands not heavy.
OSAS is really a derogatory term used by those who do not trust that JESUS will keep them saved.
Those opposed believe that a regenerate, born again, Child of God, who has a NEW heart, and is a NEW Creation IN CHRIST, can do something to be unborn again. God is NOT going to cast ANY of HIS human, born again Children into Hell.
Those opposed believe that a regenerate, born again, Child of God, who has a NEW heart, and is a NEW Creation IN CHRIST, can do something to be unborn again. God is NOT going to cast ANY of HIS human, born again Children into Hell.
cannot be unborn again is interesting language.
dying again is more fitting. eternal life they shall never die, never perish. have everlasting life. dear friend, we need to know what those verses mean in light of the other verses that are swept under the rug, the if you hold fast to that doctrine, fall away from the faith, shall not inherit the kingdom and the many warning verses. we cant ignore the warnings they are there for a reason.
dying again is more fitting. eternal life they shall never die, never perish. have everlasting life. dear friend, we need to know what those verses mean in light of the other verses that are swept under the rug, the if you hold fast to that doctrine, fall away from the faith, shall not inherit the kingdom and the many warning verses. we cant ignore the warnings they are there for a reason.
The strange thing about this belief idea is the opposite of discipleship along with a conviction that a sinful
lost heart is not a problem, and just belonging to a belief group is knowing God.
If Paul believed knowing God was obvious and our hearts do not easily deceive ourselves he would not
have said this
1 This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."
2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others,
3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.
4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you.
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realise that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.
2 Cor 13:1-6
Paul is facing believers who are claiming Paul is not speaking Gods word.
He is then challenging those who are accusing him to test themselves that
they actually know Jesus.
This is exactly the same as my experience. Quoting simple spiritual realities are
questioned and thrown out by people who claim to know Christ yet do not have
cleansed hearts or a desire to walk righteously.
Put simply this shows they do not know Jesus, or His gospel yet claim aggressively
they speak authoritatively yet speak directly against Jesus and His word.
It therefore suggests simply coming to faith and knowing God is not as automatic
and simple as many are claiming. In reality making sure of your faith is part of our walk.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1:10
lost heart is not a problem, and just belonging to a belief group is knowing God.
If Paul believed knowing God was obvious and our hearts do not easily deceive ourselves he would not
have said this
1 This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."
2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others,
3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.
4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you.
5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realise that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.
2 Cor 13:1-6
Paul is facing believers who are claiming Paul is not speaking Gods word.
He is then challenging those who are accusing him to test themselves that
they actually know Jesus.
This is exactly the same as my experience. Quoting simple spiritual realities are
questioned and thrown out by people who claim to know Christ yet do not have
cleansed hearts or a desire to walk righteously.
Put simply this shows they do not know Jesus, or His gospel yet claim aggressively
they speak authoritatively yet speak directly against Jesus and His word.
It therefore suggests simply coming to faith and knowing God is not as automatic
and simple as many are claiming. In reality making sure of your faith is part of our walk.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1:10
i have not looked into some topics in the bible such as prophecy. im working on those now.
as for salvation and the mechanics of it. i have heard arguments from all the sides. i go with what the bible says.
take galatians 5:19-21. if i say: you wont be saved if you commit these acts. would that be works salvation? i say no because thats what the bible says, its actually avoiding certain actions.
to not commit adultery is to avoid a certain action, those who commit adultery will not inherit the kingdom bible teaches.
to donate to charity is an action, a good work, such actions will not save anyone nor keep anyone saved nor contribute to salvation.
do you see the difference between these two? i put them in different colors to highlight. dear friend i would like to ask you before this conversation continues, are you a calvinist or not? do you believe in free-will or not? i ask in love, not to be rude or intrusive, but to find out if this matters at all. i know talking about these things with calvinists is a waste of time because its all predestinated anyway so there is no free will.
as for salvation and the mechanics of it. i have heard arguments from all the sides. i go with what the bible says.
take galatians 5:19-21. if i say: you wont be saved if you commit these acts. would that be works salvation? i say no because thats what the bible says, its actually avoiding certain actions.
to not commit adultery is to avoid a certain action, those who commit adultery will not inherit the kingdom bible teaches.
to donate to charity is an action, a good work, such actions will not save anyone nor keep anyone saved nor contribute to salvation.
do you see the difference between these two? i put them in different colors to highlight. dear friend i would like to ask you before this conversation continues, are you a calvinist or not? do you believe in free-will or not? i ask in love, not to be rude or intrusive, but to find out if this matters at all. i know talking about these things with calvinists is a waste of time because its all predestinated anyway so there is no free will.
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Unbelievers in plain sight
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1:10
If we have absolute certainty in our election and our calling why does it need to be made sure.
Imagine the disciples, all together yet Judas appears.
They are anointed with the Holy Spirit yet out of their midst come false teachers, apostates,
people who exploit others, abuse and miss-use the grace of God.
So when we are talking about conviction, teaching and certainty many will take a variety of
different views. What is key to me is two simple points. Should we obey Jesus and follow
His ways, and are our hearts cleansed and purified?
Are these not foundational to our faith, but it appears not to some, rather they would accuse
me of being evil and deceitful holding this very position. I would then respond to them their
position demonstrates coming to faith and spiritual rebirth is not as simple as people claim.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1:10
If we have absolute certainty in our election and our calling why does it need to be made sure.
Imagine the disciples, all together yet Judas appears.
They are anointed with the Holy Spirit yet out of their midst come false teachers, apostates,
people who exploit others, abuse and miss-use the grace of God.
So when we are talking about conviction, teaching and certainty many will take a variety of
different views. What is key to me is two simple points. Should we obey Jesus and follow
His ways, and are our hearts cleansed and purified?
Are these not foundational to our faith, but it appears not to some, rather they would accuse
me of being evil and deceitful holding this very position. I would then respond to them their
position demonstrates coming to faith and spiritual rebirth is not as simple as people claim.
I just posted this in another thread:
"faith OF the Son of God" -
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by [/in] the faith [G4102] of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
[or]
"[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live in faith [G4102], that of the Son of God [...]"
G4102 is the same word that is elsewhere (in some versions) translated as "faithfulness" in Galatians 5:22 (esv, nasb, blb, bsb, isv, etc) -
https://biblehub.com/text/galatians/5-22.htm "faithfulness [G4102]" [the fruit of the Spirit is]
So some see this as saying, "[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live by [/in] the faithfulness of the Son of God [...]" or "[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live in faithfulness, that of the Son of God [...]"
"faith OF the Son of God" -
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by [/in] the faith [G4102] of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20
[or]
"[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live in faith [G4102], that of the Son of God [...]"
G4102 is the same word that is elsewhere (in some versions) translated as "faithfulness" in Galatians 5:22 (esv, nasb, blb, bsb, isv, etc) -
https://biblehub.com/text/galatians/5-22.htm "faithfulness [G4102]" [the fruit of the Spirit is]
So some see this as saying, "[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live by [/in] the faithfulness of the Son of God [...]" or "[...] that which now I live in flesh, I live in faithfulness, that of the Son of God [...]"
I believe there are 2 reasons for the warning verses.
First, some of them relate to a loss of rewards, position, and and possibly inheritance. The prodigal son is a good example of someone who is going to BE in the kingdom, yet he BLEW his inheritance. He's there as a resident, but like refugee losing everything in a disaster he has nothing but the clothes on his back. His older obedient brother gets "all that the Father has". We tend to think of Heaven as "Ahhh, I made it! That's good enough for me!" Yet in light of eternity what happens at the Bema seat of Christ will be HUGE!
Secondly, I believe many of those verses are there to test yourself, and make sure you HAVE become a born again Child of God.
You SAY you are a Christian? FANTASTIC!! Is there a change in your life? Do you honestly love people? Do you abhor sin? Do you seek to spread the Gospel and help people with your talents and treasure?
These are all great questions we should be asking ourselves because I do agree that there are some who have deceived themselves into thinking they are good to go.
But I will say this, this unending debate does tend to sharpen tongues on both sides. And I for one, regret that. It always means I need to spend more time in the prayer request forums. Be Blessed
First, some of them relate to a loss of rewards, position, and and possibly inheritance. The prodigal son is a good example of someone who is going to BE in the kingdom, yet he BLEW his inheritance. He's there as a resident, but like refugee losing everything in a disaster he has nothing but the clothes on his back. His older obedient brother gets "all that the Father has". We tend to think of Heaven as "Ahhh, I made it! That's good enough for me!" Yet in light of eternity what happens at the Bema seat of Christ will be HUGE!
Secondly, I believe many of those verses are there to test yourself, and make sure you HAVE become a born again Child of God.
You SAY you are a Christian? FANTASTIC!! Is there a change in your life? Do you honestly love people? Do you abhor sin? Do you seek to spread the Gospel and help people with your talents and treasure?
These are all great questions we should be asking ourselves because I do agree that there are some who have deceived themselves into thinking they are good to go.
But I will say this, this unending debate does tend to sharpen tongues on both sides. And I for one, regret that. It always means I need to spend more time in the prayer request forums. Be Blessed
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