Not By Works

[Macabeus]

I don't know, this thread is thousands of posts long. The context where he said that would be needed. Possibly it was said in regards to the loss of salvation issue.

It was. But he did not say you need to be repent repeatedly to be saved. He said we do not keep repenting period. That is the part I disagreed with.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Um, You said after we are saved if you sin and do not repent we are lost. So Yes you did say that.

You can deny it all you want,

We repent THEN WE ARE SAVED< we do not KEEP REPENTING. We either repented and God accepts our faith or we are LOST/

I would say that a failure to repent for something after being saved would not result in a loss of salvation, what it would bring is chastisement if it was a grievous sin.

 

[Macabeus]

So if he believes in OSAS, then only one repentance is needed to be saved.

only one needed to be saved, yes. But I think it is wise to repent whenever we start veering or going off course, not to stay saved, but to stay on track in the race.

 

[Macabeus]

I would say that a failure to repent for something after being saved would not result in a loss of salvation, what it would bring is chastisement if it was a grievous sin.

It would bring more than that. IT would bring grief to God's heart, it would affect others, it might hinder our testimony, it could bring shame to the cause of Christ, etc.

 

[azamzimtoti]

It would bring more than that. IT would bring grief to God's heart, it would affect others, it might hinder our testimony, it could bring shame to the cause of Christ, etc.

And who hasn't done that?

 

[oldethennew]

It's not about defining real sinner. It's about the fact that a heart of faith may be imperfect, but it is not under the dominion of sin. My posts are in agreement with scripture. We are saved by faith. A faithful heart is not perfect, it is not yet reached the STANDARD, which is the FINISHED WORK OF BEING CONFORMED ENTIRELY TO CHRIST'S IMAGE, which occurs at His Second advent, yet at the same time a faithful, regenerate heart is not under the Law but under Grace, therefore SIN HAS NO DOMINION OVER IT.

================================================
you know what Mac,
hub and I are in agreement with you... you are coming OFF as antagonistic toward us -
go into your closet...

 

[Argueless]

Amen......It is finished = Paid in full.......Seoche obviously has no inkling that it is an accounting term.....one of many things he has no idea of....!

So what is your stance Mr. IDEA or is it Mr. RIGHT or whatever, about LYING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT? Is it the same as Budman's stance on the matter? Pls share us your amazing and irrefutable ideas for our information.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

So, if I'm reading you correctly he is sinning because he has a "Free Grace" theological view in opposition to your view and therefore you can't call him a brother.

So would you also consider him an heretic?

I'm kind of reminded of the "log" and "speck" statement of Jesus here.

Let me put this simply.
I just praise the Lord and walk with Him.
I know the theological positions people take, and I simply share scripture
and my heart.

3 types of righteousness
Righteousness of action
Righteousness of the heart
Righteousness of faith

It strikes me we need all three to walk with the Lord.
Each one needs to decide where they stand, and answer before the Lord.

Jesus came as light to shine in the darkness. I am not here to judge others,
but I will point out problems in certain theological positions.
God bless you

 

[azamzimtoti]

3 types of righteousness

Righteousness of action
Righteousness of the heart
Righteousness of faith

It strikes me we need all three to walk with the Lord.

So how does one "get" all these 3 types Steps?

If you know what they are then you must know how to produce/produce these things?

Yes?

 

[BibletruthSOP]

So you repented for future sinning LOL

The sermon on the mount makes it clear that the STANDARD is much higher than outward observance of the Ten Commandments. You have heard...but I say, Jesus said repeatedly.

When I speak of the 10 commandments, I am understanding that they are the law of love, as Paul says: Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10. I am not meaning some outward observance mindset. I am meaning the spirit of the law which of course includes the letter of the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The standard is keeping the commandments of God.

Sin is the transgression of the law (10 commandments)
Sin is lawlessness (transgression of the law, a spirit of disobedience, a spirit of relegating sin to non importance, etc)

Standard is perfection

Moses made them confirm an oath to obey every wrd.. Whoever did not was cursed.

Anyone who falls short of this standard is cursed. Period.

Your watering down the law is a sin in itself. And denies the grace of God and his character.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gift of salvation has within it the gift of obedience to all the commandments of God. Loving God has within it living by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

So your sinless??

Then why do people have to repent after they are saved if they are sinless??

 

[UnderGrace]

So your sinless??

Then why do people have to repent after they are saved if they are sinless??

To stay sinless...LOL

 

[Argueless]

So your sinless??

Then why do people have to repent after they are saved if they are sinless??

...The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:4-6

...“To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis

Did Jesus say that OBEDIENCE and REPENTANCE is needed to be done by some of the believers in the church in Sardis?

If you were one of them that Jesus was referring to and you won't OBEY and REPENT...would it not make you a LIAR according to John?

Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

So how does one "get" all these 3 types Steps?
If you know what they are then you must know how to produce/produce these things?
Yes?

I think this is the question we all need to answer.
I think religious folk often do not know God, but rather prefer to believe He is not the
living God who knows everything, and desires to find and call His elect.

Through this maze of life, of sin, of ideas, of revelation, of love, of repentance, of
listening and following, of being transformed then we discover what is true and what
is not.

God tests us, He asks us questions to find our foundations and to make us realise who
He truly is. The bible is a vast book, and each day I learn something new from it.

1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin.
3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong.
5 Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
6 Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep. O LORD, you preserve both man and beast.
7 How priceless is your unfailing love! Both high and low among men find refuge in the shadow of your wings.
Psalm 36:1-7

 

[dcontroversal]

yeah, and every since this was said , you have been obsessed with shouting that one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved.

that stance, when there is no time frame laid out in Scripture ( actually, it says BEAR fruit, which happens when seed sprouts , breaks ground, grows, blooms , blooms turn into small fruit, fruit grows and bears ),
anyway, that stance makes you a judgemental fruit inspector, whether or not you embrace it.

Is meatball still going on about that......geesh..........just like the new sinless perfectionist......both of them re like gnats......buzzing round......

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Standard is perfection
Moses made them confirm an oath to obey every wrd.. Whoever did not was cursed.
Anyone who falls short of this standard is cursed. Period.
Your watering down the law is a sin in itself. And denies the grace of God and his character.

"Watering down the law" - I hear the legalist speaking. But why are they talking like this?
Because the law of the Spirit, the law of love is something they do not understand, only
rules and regulations which they can draw up and measure their own failure against.

If you do not understand or feel love, there is no security or happiness, no being in fellowship
with the Lord, just a dread and unease with ones conscience and guilt.

So all my words speak of a road and a path that does not exist for them, a knowledge of
cleansing that cannot take place because love is locked away, and a language that is
talked about as sugar coated, because they do not know what love unto death is or our
true sacrificial calling, because sacrifice for love is something only Jesus does, and not
His followers.

But if Jesus's followers do not know what sacrificial love is, and cannot love each other
as Christ loved us, they cannot know Jesus in their hearts.

I have heard some say only believers know agape love, except they mean the love Jesus
had in giving himself for us, not we giving our lives for others, because that is literally
a step too far and beyond their imaginations. God bless you, and may you learn what
Jesus's love is at work in a follower of our King, Praise His Holy Name, Amen.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Is meatball still going on about that......geesh..........just like the new sinless perfectionist......both of them re like gnats......buzzing round......

Looking in the mirror again a bit too much my friend .... lol

 

[Guojing]

I think this is the question we all need to answer.
I think religious folk often do not know God, but rather prefer to believe He is not the
living God who knows everything, and desires to find and call His elect.

It would be so much easier if we could just accept that Jesus gave us all 3 types of righteousness towards God, when we accepted the divine exchange.

 

[dcontroversal]

That is not what you stated.

You said we assert sin does not matter

He is just another deceiver.....embellishes what we say.....and obviously has no understanding of sin in believer....nor the grace of God that out bounds our sin and or the reason for chastisement and who gets chastised.......another religionist that helps JESUS save himself....