Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit

[7seasrekeyed]

And in Matthew 12:32 Jesus states that it would not be forgiven in this/that age nor the one coming.

right

I would listen to Jesus then

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8

those who do not walk after their flesh, that is who try to abide in the true Vine by their own strength and understanding, but allow the Spirit of God to lead them are those who are saved

there is no salvation without the Holy Spirit. if you reject the Holy Spirit your heart becomes harder and harder

Saul is interesting because he was literally forced to his knees. This, is the Lion of Judah. This, is the risen Christ, This is God and there is no hiding from Him. all hearts are open to Him

and in the middle of all of that, there is grace and mercy and forgiveness. such a beautiful story and should give everyone hope

same with Peter. he denied Jesus 3 times and 3 times the risen Jesus asked Peter if Peter loved Him...Peter was cut to his heart and responded 'you know I love you!' and that is the heart we bring to God also

we bring the heart of love that is still weak and fearful and He gives us His Spirit so that we have the strength in Him to live for Him, testify of Him and His Spirit, the very Spirit of God, lives in us and assures us that we belong to Him!

God demands of us things we cannot give and then gives us the means by which to do it

 

[iamsoandso]

Amen, Thats the thing that puts the discussion to rest.

If anyone has committed this sin, It can NEVER BE FORGIVEN in this age or the next..

If it can be forgiven, it is NOT the unpardonable sin

And also shows that regardless of one age ending and the next beginning that the final judgment was not in the age they were in, in Matthew 12, and that one age ends and another comes and then the final judgment.

 

[stonesoffire]

You know, I don't watch these kinds of videos. I don't believe the Holy Spirit is down for acting for a camera. You are probably right, this is probably faked. It's about bringing the power of God to the hearts of people, not putting on a dog and pony show.

I HATE this kind of stuff. Because it gives the cessies ammo that frankly, 9 out of 10 times they are right about.

BUT ... again ... would satan go to so much trouble to produce such fakery if there wasn't a truth to be hidden???

And really it's off topic. This is about blaspheme.

Loved it PennEd....I've watched this many times and the joy of the Lord just gets greater! Thanks a bunch.

Just one dose of the Holy Ghost will never be enough for me!

Enjoy your pew.

 

[garee]

And also shows that regardless of one age ending and the next beginning that the final judgment was not in the age they were in, in Matthew 12, and that one age ends and another comes and then the final judgment.

I would suggest it was not saying from age to age and then comes the final judgement . I would think as in many cases it has to do on how we walk or understand... faith to faith

Blasphemy in a nut shell is.... attributing the unseen eternal things God not seen and giving it over to what the eyes see the temporal

The fall in the garden . Before they heard God they walked by faith (a unseen witness) when they gave into what the eyes see... no faith... a new god of this world to content with.

Great lesson in Mathew 16 :22 -23 as to why we must remember the difference between the things of God not seen the eternal and that seen the temporal.

It makes it easier to understand when the work of blasphemy is shown in action.. many principles are developed to help us understand the difference between the things of men seen and those of God not seen. The Holy Spirit declares its a offence to Him .

Peter was forgiven of His blasphemy.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16 :22 -23

Blasphemy is the work of the Spirit working in us attributed to the flesh to include our own . No flesh is to stand in the Holy invisible place of the glory of God to those who are called to walk by faith the things of God. Forbidding men form looking to that seen as a source of His faith that does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure .

When Christ was here as the flesh of Jesus the work of the Holy Spirit was limited .

John 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

It is why Peter was forgiven of His blasphemy against that seen the flesh of Jesus.. The idea of claiming a false authority against the Spirit of God not seen …..it will never be forgiven .The one time demonstration is over.

Jesus had not yet ben glorified and disappeared out of sight.

 

[Lanolin]

Well, I would forgive Joe because he would be saying it out of ignorance.

When people say 'gifts have ceased' its only because they havent experienced the gift themselves.

They only see it in other people, and are skeptical. I dont think necessarily they are like the people that say the ones who spoke at pentecost were drunk, and were mocking the holy spirit.

Something unforgiveable and blaspheming the holy spirit would be like saying all those who have gifts are being satanic or possesed with demons. I would think.

You have to be really mean/evil to grieve the holy spirit. It would be like calling good evil, and evil good. For example, a padophile thinks molesting a child is 'loving them' and those that love their child by not sleeping with them are being hateful. It would be like falsely accusing someone whos good and saying they had evil intentions. But why unforgivable for the holy spirit rather than for say Jesus? Well Jesus could handle cos he was in the flesh, the holy spirit is not flesh so you cant accuse him of anything wrong. He is totally pure and innocent.

Thats how I understand it.

 

[RickyZ]

I understand getting to Heaven is going to be a miracle for the majority of us. I understand that many feel like I do, in that, we will make it by the smallest of margins, literally crawling across the portals of Glory. I understand that perception is important. I understand that appearance is key (except the Robertson/Duck Dynasty/which I have a similar wild and crazy look ). I understand reputation is most important. i understand that one's actions can make or break them.

But when I look at GOD, in the form as a human being called, Yeshua. And I think about the Example Yeshua set for us. I see that PERCEPTION, APPEARANCE, REPUTATION, and ACTIONS literally did not matter. He stayed with the kinds of people that then and today we get judged by. He chose Disciples, whom some were thought of ill repute and labelled as outcasts. He was blatant, rude, came to bring DIVISION, and spent many moments doing things to irritate the religious societies, he was not polished like Christians try to be today (all dignified and proper, speaking eloquently, practicing the highest standards of etiquette) (God WAS NOTHING like that).

God came to us and He was so DIFFERENT, ODD, STRANGE, that He was judged, mistreated, lied about, and eventually murdered all because He was nothing like the DENOMINATIONS of His day. He represented Nothing that was established other than He was the God of their Fathers (I AM - Burning Bush).


Why do I mention ALL of this?

How are ANY OF YOU so positive about what the Pentecostals and Charismatic do in the presence of God, is actually WRONG and FAKE? Most Denominations are so DRY BONES and DEAD, you LITERALLY have to be born into a family who already attends there TO EVEN WANT TO VISIT SUCH A GRAVEYARD!!

What IF the Pentecostals and Charismatics are beloved by GOD for being FREE to Worship Him without limits?

What IF God views other Denominations that are DRY BONES like the Pharisees, whom He said were FULL OF DEAD BONES?


THE MAJORITY of OPINIONS and VIEWS, in the days of Yeshua, ended up being WRONG.
What if other Denominations opinions and views are WRONG about the Pentecostals and Charismatics?

You will have WASTED your entire lives serving God in a manner that God ultimately despises!!

In my opinion, the reason WHY the majority of you NEVER lead sinners to God and eventual Salvation, is because YOU really have nothing to offer but a DEAD CHURCH, DEAD SERMON, A DEAD WAY OF LIFE. I think YOU are YELLOW!! As in, afraid to lose your COMFORT ZONE and MAN'S TRADITIONS in order to finally make CONTACT with GOD!! I feel SORRY FOR YOU!! Trapped by what SOMEONE ELSE might think about you. Trapped by idealisms. Trapped by ignorance. Which ULTIMATELY MEANS, YOU are still trapped by the Adversary and the powers of hell.

Some of you are so PIAS and biased, it's sad but OBVIOUS, you very well might hear God say, I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME!!

You really NEED to finally wake up and get a CLUE!!

A little strong but not off point. Yes a lot of churches are indeed dead because they deny any signs of actual life.

But I would caution, that as much as not all cessationists blatantly attribute all manifestation as demonic, not all cessationist denominations are failing to do God's work. I know of many churches that do not operate in the gifts, and yet are doing great things for God.

I don't blame cessationists for their views, a lot of what they show as evidence is valid. But to toss the baby with the bathwater -again, would satan work so hard to make the waters so dirty if there were not a truth he is trying to obscure? Something he's trying to stop?

And yeah, I fear for those who come out and proudly say it. I pray they not be part of those told to depart, but scripture is pretty clear here. Noose you are first on my prayer list these days. I don't care if you ever come around to see it our way, but PLEASE stop saying every manifestation is of satan. You're human - don't throw your soul away on the chance you can't be wrong.

 

[RickyZ]

I will tell you a story about my life.

I was the happiest I'd ever been in my life after meeting charismatic Catholics and began attending their Life in the Spirit worship meetings. The air in South Bend, Ind seem to crackle with the Fire of the Holy Ghost and there were many testimonies of things happening in people's lives. God was real and He was present with His people!

So in my excitement I call my parents and tell them what was happening there and to me.

I was shot down by my own family. Told it was of the devil, and that I would go crazy if I went on with this experience.

I knew that was wrong, and it would not happen.

Years later a woman was healed of MS in the small town area that I grew up in, and people there were affected by this happening. In my opinion, that happening broke that religious spirit that held the people
bound up by it, and then a black man full of the Holy Spirit comes to town. And he started a church. There were no black brothers and sisters living there before, but he drew many to the baptism and the giftings. There was controversy....much....but also the fire came.

I was hearing bits and pieces of what was going on, and my mother declares that it's not of God to me. She was very outspoken to others and rumors were flying everywhere. It was not just my mothers belief but many in the town agreed.

Time passes and the woman who was healed started a church. She was well known, and well thought of. And she affected my mother with her sweet spirit. There began a great change in my childhood area and my mother begins listening to Kenneth Copeland.

But, she was affected in her conscience by her previous actions and she asked me if she had blasphemed Holy Spirit. I reasured her she had not.

This is the fault of denominational leaders who are not good shepherds but are hirelings. When the church is run like a business, something is wrong. It becomes about numbers and tithes. Rather than the presence of God with us, Emanuel.

It had affected me too and the Lord took me through many trials of my faith that I could be freed from this.

I am slow to move on when the Lord has begun something new....not new as never before happened, but new to our personal walk.

So no, I don't believe a born again child has committed this sin, but is too just a victim.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yes, for sure, leaders of the flock are answerable for where they lead their sheep. But the sheep are accountable for where they allow themselves to be led as well. Presented with truth, if they deny correction they will be judged for it. Like we all will.

I don't believe most cessationists are committing the sin. There is a difference between believing an error and outright denying the Holy Spirit. Disagree, fine, but don't speak the words as if they were truth.

 

[RickyZ]

Are the snake handlers worshipping Jesus and Father while they do this? That might be the defining factor with experiences that offend us. Is there worship of God being expressed?

I believe they fall under the 'tempting God' category. I'd tell you about the times I should have been bit, by accident, but you'd just dismiss that too.

 

[RickyZ]

MRV is which version?

Modern Redacted Version

 

[RickyZ]

I would not be concerned if it was indeed just acting. So if it's not acting, and it's not the Holy Spirit, just what spirit is it?

Just like I'm not concerned with the fake psychic readers. It's the REAL ones that's the issue.

And it's not off topic because a poster related saying these guys are not Holy Spirit driven is blaspheming.

Only if they are actually under the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[garee]

When people say 'gifts have ceased' its only because they havent experienced the gift themselves.

I would think that personal experience is not a validator as a source of Christian faith . Three times when Jesus was put into a situation of a new experience, .Jesus performed the unseen will of his father and said as it is written. You could say "strike three" struck him out.... back to the bottomless dugout. .Satan never saw it coming just a twinkle.

I would be careful there are always three fingers pointing back .No one is saying gifts have ceased . New prophecy that could be added to the perfect book of prophecy the bible has ceased. God has sealed up the possibility of any new with 7 seals.

Prophesying, declaring prophecy is still occurring every time someone shares the gospel with someone the other can understand each other in that way two people communing . If not able to communicate the gospel as two walking together in agreement, today they have electronic devises that can translate back and forth and the technology is getting better.

Never know it could be part of the promise of sending the gospel, according to the living commandment going out into the world with his word. Not all new inventions serve a evil purpose as some say.

When people say 'sign gifts" have ceased' it could be only because there never were "sign gifts" to begin with. Spiritual gits, unseen, yes,. The gift called believing God not seen. It does not have a literal sign attached assigned a outward sign to confirm a person believes God. He informs us I believe to help our confidence as the better thing that accompanies the salvation he is working in us with us is that he will not forget the good works of us working with him that we can offer toward the authority of His name . A beautiful promise.

The sign of tongues outwardly confirms unbelief of the whole world using Jewish flesh, as a outward Jew to represent "no faith" coming from God not seen. And a inward Jew as one born again after the seed, the Spirit of Christ or Spirit of promise .The purpose of the demonstration in Acts 2 was to the whole world . The promise of Isaiah 53 that he would demonstrate using flesh to represent the good news of the father and Son working together in perfect harmony to give us the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding .
.

 

[dcontroversal]

N

Modern Redacted Version

No have not seen one and if I did, I would sit it next to the toilet in case I ran out of paper!!

 

[PennEd]

Loved it PennEd....I've watched this many times and the joy of the Lord just gets greater! Thanks a bunch.

Just one dose of the Holy Ghost will never be enough for me!

Enjoy your pew.

Sarcasm doesn't become you.

Tell me, when the "Pastor" slapped the guy in the head, and some kind of spirit in him jumped up like a buffoon onto the podium and trounced on the Bible, and then jumped down and ran into the bushes on stage, was from the Holy Spirit too?

I also saw the guy you have touted, Brown I think his name is, laughing like a possessed hyena for over a half hour. Was that from the Holy Spirit?

I think most of these people touting "experience" better look up the Kundalini spirit. Cause that's what it looks like.

 

[garee]

A little strong but not off point. Yes a lot of churches are indeed dead because they deny any signs of actual life.

But I would caution, that as much as not all cessationists blatantly attribute all manifestation as demonic, not all cessationist denominations are failing to do God's work. I know of many churches that do not operate in the gifts, and yet are doing great things for God.

I don't blame cessationists for their views, a lot of what they show as evidence is valid. But to toss the baby with the bathwater -again, would satan work so hard to make the waters so dirty if there were not a truth he is trying to obscure? Something he's trying to stop?

And yeah, I fear for those who come out and proudly say it. I pray they not be part of those told to depart, but scripture is pretty clear here. Noose you are first on my prayer list these days. I don't care if you ever come around to see it our way, but PLEASE stop saying every manifestation is of satan. You're human - don't throw your soul away on the chance you can't be wrong.

Hi, Interesting stuff . I would ask in regard to your statement. Is because they deny any signs of actual life of the flesh? Or hidden life our the new born again spirit that lives in these bodies of death ?

There is no outward sign for those who have passed from death to new life . When I look around I see flesh and blood, it will not enter the new order. As far as the new incorruptible body as the bride of Christ. ….Still looking, see many lively stones even here that do make up the spiritual house.

I would suggest another way to look at that rather than saying cessationists . Why not moderators? Like the work of the moderators of this Christian chat forum who do great Job of moderating a good hard work . I would think if someone new came on board here and said he was now taking over the work of moderating in a hope of widening the authority the moderators had . They would be moderated with the Queen of hearts ..LOL which ever one that is.

Its not that God's word died because he sealed up the possibility of adding more new revelations. That idea occurred during the silent period between the testaments.. Many works of false prophecy as oral traditions of men occurred saying; I am the Christ add me to the cannon . One denomination even today claims extra private revelations as a way of saying the word of God is more that 66 books, (sola scriptura) the same denomination keeps adding daily what they call private revelations making the work of God (66 books) without effect.

.We walk by faith the kind that if a person closes their eyes..... why seek after something not there ? Its why Christ our faithful Creator came.... those who are blind to the eternal things of God not were given the light that might be given eyes to see that they might walk in the light of their new faith.

Why toss out the parable as the non literal evidence with the metaphorical water?

 

[RickyZ]

lol, I think it became confused by Joe's name i.e. "g.i. Joe"(ambiguous),,,but if the op said this,,,,,

"There was a man named Saul. He did not believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah and set out to get a letter to go to Damascus and arrest as many followers of Jesus as he could and endorsed stoning them to death."

So Saul rejected Jesus, saw his death as nothing,saw his followers as criminals and participated in,and endorsed their death's,,,,did Saul commit the unpardonable sin?

Excellent question. Saul rejected Jesus, persecuted followers to death, but was then saved. Astute observation.

 

[RickyZ]

lol, then it has to be something other than that or Saul is guilty of blasphemes of the Holy Spiit.

Unless we can find a dividing line between unbelief and outright attribution.

 

[RickyZ]

You know Ricky...when it comes to the baptism of Holy Spirit, I think experience is the best teacher.

Absolutely, as long as we remember experience can itself be faked, and we therefore seek discernment and test the spirits.

Discernment and testing. That's what it comes down to.

 

[RickyZ]

I tend to agree. But, I wouldn't say not accepting, but making a decision to reject Him. And that just occurred to me as I wrote this.

But, as Ricky said, we could be wrong.

I always figured that when we get to heaven, we'll all have a good laugh at how wrong we ALL are!

 

[RickyZ]

Well, I would forgive Joe because he would be saying it out of ignorance.

When people say 'gifts have ceased' its only because they havent experienced the gift themselves.

They only see it in other people, and are skeptical. I dont think necessarily they are like the people that say the ones who spoke at pentecost were drunk, and were mocking the holy spirit.

Something unforgiveable and blaspheming the holy spirit would be like saying all those who have gifts are being satanic or possesed with demons. I would think.

You have to be really mean/evil to grieve the holy spirit. It would be like calling good evil, and evil good. For example, a padophile thinks molesting a child is 'loving them' and those that love their child by not sleeping with them are being hateful. It would be like falsely accusing someone whos good and saying they had evil intentions. But why unforgivable for the holy spirit rather than for say Jesus? Well Jesus could handle cos he was in the flesh, the holy spirit is not flesh so you cant accuse him of anything wrong. He is totally pure and innocent.

Thats how I understand it.

I think there's a dividing line between believing something and confessing it. Jesus said, believe in your heart and confess with your lips to be saved. I think the same principal is at work here. You may believe in your mind all gifts have ceased, and be ok (relative to the subject). But when you come right out and say it - all gifts are demonic - that's a decision, a pronouncement. What comes out of a man, right? That's where I think one crosses the line.

 

[RickyZ]

It's interesting seeing these one-sided conversations between people on ignore and others who are not. Is that my old buddy notuptome lurking behind the curtain?