Why the difference
- Thread starter RickyZ
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Claiming to be indwelled by God and not understanding the truth is a contradiction. When the understanding comes you'll surely know. You will toss away what you have been taught like one does a menstrual cloth:
Isa 30:19People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help! As soon as he hears, he will answer you. 20Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” 22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”
There is no such thing as living room to be lukewarm.
Isa 30:19People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help! As soon as he hears, he will answer you. 20Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” 22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”
There is no such thing as living room to be lukewarm.
O
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
^they are DIVIDED on beliefs, scripture meaning, if Yeshua is God or not, all because this is what God wanted to do, bring us Division.
Why are there so many Denominations and not just ONE CHURCH, like the BRIDE, which we are suppose to be?
Because of God, and His Division He brought to us.
O
That always led me to this question:
If we look at the SAME scripture and none of us agree to its meaning, we know we are divided because of God.
So
Does that mean we are all correct on the scripture, but just don't agree with what others believe the scripture means?
Almost makes it seem, we are all correct about the SAME scripture to a degree, we just never see it completely like all others.
This is why I then look at it like when I have read the scriptures:
When I first read the Bible I knew very little. As I grew in God, I noticed verses became clearer and new meaning was revealed. And it continued doing this as I grew more and more (the same verse changing meaning).
So, If a new believer and old believer read same scripture, they are not going to see it the same. But that does not mean both readers are wrong, just means one has a deeper meaning to that scripture than the new believer. But sadly, not recognizing this, we then tend to divide ourselves based on what I know vs what you know.
If we look at the SAME scripture and none of us agree to its meaning, we know we are divided because of God.
So
Does that mean we are all correct on the scripture, but just don't agree with what others believe the scripture means?
Almost makes it seem, we are all correct about the SAME scripture to a degree, we just never see it completely like all others.
This is why I then look at it like when I have read the scriptures:
When I first read the Bible I knew very little. As I grew in God, I noticed verses became clearer and new meaning was revealed. And it continued doing this as I grew more and more (the same verse changing meaning).
So, If a new believer and old believer read same scripture, they are not going to see it the same. But that does not mean both readers are wrong, just means one has a deeper meaning to that scripture than the new believer. But sadly, not recognizing this, we then tend to divide ourselves based on what I know vs what you know.
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Thats true nobody knows it all. If we knew it all we would be God! How scary would that be?
But maybe ricky is thinking of opposing conclusions, but I dont want to get into the whole calvinst vs arminian thing again, its not even an equal bunfight, as its always the calvinists that insist they are right and everyone else is wrong, and are quite rude about it.
But maybe ricky is thinking of opposing conclusions, but I dont want to get into the whole calvinst vs arminian thing again, its not even an equal bunfight, as its always the calvinists that insist they are right and everyone else is wrong, and are quite rude about it.
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I think it is simply a normal and natural thing to happen. People have different views and perspectives on what they read in Scripture and that's ok. It is good to seek and try to understand where someone with an opposing viewpoint comes from. In the process of reading Scripture for ourselves and hearing what others say, our beliefs may shift and change or certain beliefs may grow even stronger. I believe problems began when people of opposing viewpoints get to talking and both have the attitude of I am right and you are wrong and then try to change each other's mind. And when beliefs are strongly held and ingrained inside, it is not likely that those beliefs are going to change so quickly.
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The Bible is plain in what it states, and the Bible says that some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, but this has to do with their sin problem that they do not realize that the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some do not have the knowledge of God, but they hold unto sin and think they are alright.
But a person does not need the Spirit to know David was king in Israel, and thou shalt not steal, and information like that for it is plainly stated.
So why the different interpretations.
That is because some people have a different belief concerning reality, and it becomes their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
If people want to enjoy sin they justify it, which many people do that by saying they cannot abstain from sins, although the Bible says if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins, and God will not allow them to be tempted as hard as the world, and will give them an escape from the temptation.
It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
Joseph Smith has a different view of reality, and many other like the new age movement that interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, because that is what their reality is about, and others from that type of thinking like Christian Science, and Scientology, that seem to attribute God to the natural.
But a lot of people go by their denomination, and it is their foundation, and if it is false they do not see it the right way.
But the Bible is plain if people take it as it is without a belief that is not part of the Bible, or wanting to enjoy sin and justify it.
But a person does not need the Spirit to know David was king in Israel, and thou shalt not steal, and information like that for it is plainly stated.
So why the different interpretations.
That is because some people have a different belief concerning reality, and it becomes their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
If people want to enjoy sin they justify it, which many people do that by saying they cannot abstain from sins, although the Bible says if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sins, and God will not allow them to be tempted as hard as the world, and will give them an escape from the temptation.
It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their pagan ways, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
Joseph Smith has a different view of reality, and many other like the new age movement that interpret the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, because that is what their reality is about, and others from that type of thinking like Christian Science, and Scientology, that seem to attribute God to the natural.
But a lot of people go by their denomination, and it is their foundation, and if it is false they do not see it the right way.
But the Bible is plain if people take it as it is without a belief that is not part of the Bible, or wanting to enjoy sin and justify it.
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People are listening to tradition, not to the bible. The occult has gotten into tradition because the church fathers like Origen, Jerome, Clement were gentiles who did not know OT scripture. The NT is based and an extension of OT, without first learning the attributes of God that the NT is about it is not possible to understand what the NT tells of as the completion of what is in the OT.
Constantine made these wrong interpretations laws, and they were mostly based on the idea of not following the Jews for the Jewish traditions were so looked down on by the gentiles. All this was helped by misinterpreting Paul's explanation to us of using the Holy Spirit to guide us instead of the rituals. They used this to sort of throw out the baby with the dish water. Celebrations given by God were tossed, and occult celebrations were Christianized for instance.
In order to get back to scripture after these 2,000 years of following the early church fathers instead of scripture, a study of these early men needs to be done, comparing what they say with scripture.
Constantine made these wrong interpretations laws, and they were mostly based on the idea of not following the Jews for the Jewish traditions were so looked down on by the gentiles. All this was helped by misinterpreting Paul's explanation to us of using the Holy Spirit to guide us instead of the rituals. They used this to sort of throw out the baby with the dish water. Celebrations given by God were tossed, and occult celebrations were Christianized for instance.
In order to get back to scripture after these 2,000 years of following the early church fathers instead of scripture, a study of these early men needs to be done, comparing what they say with scripture.
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There is a long list of reasons why but only one answer to the question. Many profess but they do not possess. Many have a Jesus of their own creation and not the Jesus of the bible. Many feel saved but they have come by mechanism or device and not by the gospel message.
Believers have in their possession the common presence of the Holy Spirit. They can fellowship and share blessing in the Lord with others of like precious faith from around the world. They have differences in culture but a common love for Jesus and a common burden for the lost. They share a common love for Gods word and shun profane behaviors.
God knows who are His and who are not.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Believers have in their possession the common presence of the Holy Spirit. They can fellowship and share blessing in the Lord with others of like precious faith from around the world. They have differences in culture but a common love for Jesus and a common burden for the lost. They share a common love for Gods word and shun profane behaviors.
God knows who are His and who are not.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
O
I would normally say, NO!!
But Yeshua is clear that His DIVISION is intended to split households and family. 2 against 3, 3 against 2, father against son, daughter against mother. in-laws against in-laws.
I look at this and think, wow, that is vindictive and manipulative.
But when I see it is GOD who is doing this on purpose, and ADMITS HE IS DOING THIS ON PURPOSE, it's left to reason that sometimes God wants chaos and confusion. Because the only reason God would purposely do this to family units, is to DIVIDE them on beliefs.
Well, the reading of the SAME scripture, also brings Division based upon what each reader believes. Because not everyone is going to see the meaning to a scripture like everyone else. And this leads to disagreement, which is chaos.
We are made in the Likeness of God. And clearly, some of His attributes are manipulation and vindication because some humans also have these traits.
But, this is a God who DESTROYED His Creation and DESTROYED those who were against Him. And even though He brought Salvation under Grace, He will eventually go back and be the God to DESTROY every human alive at Armageddon (we will be raptured before then).
So, I stopped questioning God whenever I thought I could reason His actions and purpose. Because, I never had a clue why He was and did like He did on some things.
But still, He said, I came to bring Division. And ultimately, that Division will bring chaos. So, I accept that this was God's intent because He admits to doing it!!
O
This is a God who repented for Creating us!! Yes, Old Testament, but still relates to us. You make something and get mad that you made it and now want to destroy it. And is so mad, He repents for Creating us!! Sounds like a padded room mad scientist. That does not seem like a Loving God at all. But, we know better 
Philippians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
We should be likeminded in Christ. Being of one accord. The Spirit we should have is one of peace. So learning should be made clear when we read scripture. The Holy Spirit will reveal to us all truth.
What the brother was pointing out is when Jesus came He caused division. Those who believed in Christ and those who did not. Jews vs Christians. Manmade commandments vs Gods commandments. Tradition vs God's Holy Word.
We are ONE body in Christ. We should not be divided in Christ. How can a house be divided? We are all ONE in Christ therefore we must love one another and be patient with one another encouraging one another and edifying one another. God is not the author of confusion. There should not be strife among brothers.
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
We should be likeminded in Christ. Being of one accord. The Spirit we should have is one of peace. So learning should be made clear when we read scripture. The Holy Spirit will reveal to us all truth.
What the brother was pointing out is when Jesus came He caused division. Those who believed in Christ and those who did not. Jews vs Christians. Manmade commandments vs Gods commandments. Tradition vs God's Holy Word.
We are ONE body in Christ. We should not be divided in Christ. How can a house be divided? We are all ONE in Christ therefore we must love one another and be patient with one another encouraging one another and edifying one another. God is not the author of confusion. There should not be strife among brothers.
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O
John 7:
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Yeshua's spoken words are our verses to which we agree/disagree with. And these spoken WORDS back then, bring the same Division today when viewing what Yeshua said.
And we know Paul claimed to be guided by Yeshua, so his words under the influence of Yeshua probably also brought Division, like Paul's teachings on the Gift of Tongues. Now, that is some Division right there, just over the Gift of Tongues. We have 5 active threads over Tongues. That is how divided it is!!
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Yeshua's spoken words are our verses to which we agree/disagree with. And these spoken WORDS back then, bring the same Division today when viewing what Yeshua said.
And we know Paul claimed to be guided by Yeshua, so his words under the influence of Yeshua probably also brought Division, like Paul's teachings on the Gift of Tongues. Now, that is some Division right there, just over the Gift of Tongues. We have 5 active threads over Tongues. That is how divided it is!!
We cannot find the ONE answer without going back in the history of the church to find out when and how the traditions deviated from scripture. That started the minute the church fathers changed from men who knew scripture to men who knew idol worship.
There is no different ways that God acts at different times, there is ONE God with the same principles. There is no old covenant from one kind of God and a mew covenant from a different God, the very same God principles are in both, one improves the communication of those same principles to us. God is the same God working the same way with us from Genesis to Revelation.
We aren't listening to that God speaking to us in scripture. Our minds are so polluted with interpretation we would HAVE to go back to when the pollution started and why to clear our minds and go to God.
There is no different ways that God acts at different times, there is ONE God with the same principles. There is no old covenant from one kind of God and a mew covenant from a different God, the very same God principles are in both, one improves the communication of those same principles to us. God is the same God working the same way with us from Genesis to Revelation.
We aren't listening to that God speaking to us in scripture. Our minds are so polluted with interpretation we would HAVE to go back to when the pollution started and why to clear our minds and go to God.
