Why would scripture necessarily mention that there were more than 4 rivers in the world? It doesn't say the world of Adam was flat either. On the contrary, my arguments are specifically rooted in scripture while yours are speculative and pure fantasy. I don't have to see any model images as the people or persons that created the images were not there at the time to gauge the terrain in order to create an accurate representation.
Discussing Noah's Flood - Mysteries & Theories
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Let's see IF there's any Speculation as stated by our friend here....
Gen 8:1 ¶ And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
Asswaged is the Hebrew word Shakak (H7918) and it can also mean to set a Trap. Here it is used in this manner:
Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as He that setteth H7918 snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
Gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
This is important since the narrative is between the time when the Ark was above the highest mountains on Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the flood began Gen 7:24 AND when the Ark was upon the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th Day after the flood began. Gen 8:4 God set a Trap for today's Evols and Unbelievers with the flood.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. v24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
See, No speculation here! And there's No need for Traditional Goatherder's Doctrinal Teachings who can NOT support their views with Scripture. JMHO.
Our God is an Awesome God.
(Note: I do address something of your ideas below)
Man, respectfully I think you are taking this farther than can be known. Can I ask what this has to do with salvation or our daily walk at all? There are things that cannot be answered. Asking about things is one thing, but authoritatively stating that you are right and everyone else is wrong should be cause for some consternation (it is for me usually). That's not to say that it can't happen that a general consensus is erroneous but it is rare.
Looking at Genesis 7:20 could it be possible that the 15 cubit height was ABOVE the earth? As in the highest point of the earth did the waters climb. I think if the Lord had meant sea level he would have made that abundantly clear. Earth, soil, firmament. The highest peak where such a statement could be made?
Is it possible that you are misunderstanding Genesis 8:1-3? From my reading (and I do appreciate a reason to go back and look more closely) it seems that the wind is blowing away the rain and in vs 2 the aquifer/well springs of the deep are restrained.
Alas, my internet cut out half of my message. Will continue. That's frustrating
Man, respectfully I think you are taking this farther than can be known. Can I ask what this has to do with salvation or our daily walk at all? There are things that cannot be answered. Asking about things is one thing, but authoritatively stating that you are right and everyone else is wrong should be cause for some consternation (it is for me usually). That's not to say that it can't happen that a general consensus is erroneous but it is rare.
Looking at Genesis 7:20 could it be possible that the 15 cubit height was ABOVE the earth? As in the highest point of the earth did the waters climb. I think if the Lord had meant sea level he would have made that abundantly clear. Earth, soil, firmament. The highest peak where such a statement could be made?
Is it possible that you are misunderstanding Genesis 8:1-3? From my reading (and I do appreciate a reason to go back and look more closely) it seems that the wind is blowing away the rain and in vs 2 the aquifer/well springs of the deep are restrained.
Alas, my internet cut out half of my message. Will continue. That's frustrating
I'll just be much briefer and surface level *sigh*
Anyway, take a look at the word asswaged and what the modern definitions are (assuaged). As in they began to abate.
and in vs 3 they had abated...as in were known to have decreased. Think of a throwing a ball up (flooding) and then that stopping point where it rests for a BRIEF period of time and then gravity reasserts itself and it begins to fall. I think this transition can be seen form 1-3.
I'm down to talk about the tenses a little more if you'd like. It's cool to have a theory that you feel like you've pierced a mystery but it MUST agree with the body in some fashion. I've created whole "mini-doctrines" off one scripture but I don't run with it until I've done some research and considered scripture as a WHOLE. You seem to be taking things from the prophets to fit a narrative that is too large of a reach (IME). Just because the same word is used in hebrew doesn't mean it applies to the flood. Words can have different meanings.
Assuaged could easily mean appeased if taken in a certain context so it is VERY important.
I would HIGHLY encourage you to take a look at who the the sons of god were. It seems more likely with closer study that these are the descendants of Seth and the "Sons of men" are the descendants of Cain. I'm not saying 100% (faith is not sight) but take a closer look and meditate on it.
Said in love. Peace.
Anyway, take a look at the word asswaged and what the modern definitions are (assuaged). As in they began to abate.
and in vs 3 they had abated...as in were known to have decreased. Think of a throwing a ball up (flooding) and then that stopping point where it rests for a BRIEF period of time and then gravity reasserts itself and it begins to fall. I think this transition can be seen form 1-3.
I'm down to talk about the tenses a little more if you'd like. It's cool to have a theory that you feel like you've pierced a mystery but it MUST agree with the body in some fashion. I've created whole "mini-doctrines" off one scripture but I don't run with it until I've done some research and considered scripture as a WHOLE. You seem to be taking things from the prophets to fit a narrative that is too large of a reach (IME). Just because the same word is used in hebrew doesn't mean it applies to the flood. Words can have different meanings.
Assuaged could easily mean appeased if taken in a certain context so it is VERY important.
I would HIGHLY encourage you to take a look at who the the sons of god were. It seems more likely with closer study that these are the descendants of Seth and the "Sons of men" are the descendants of Cain. I'm not saying 100% (faith is not sight) but take a closer look and meditate on it.
Said in love. Peace.
Greetings my brother.
I AGREE with you and I understand what you are trying to say.
That’s exactly why I described the Prophecy of Isaiah 24:18 -20 as a “Double Edge Sword” which was also set up as a Snare or Trap....to catch those willingly ignorant Unbelievers and Pretenders of this last Days about the total destruction of Adam’s Earth (dissolved; kaput; gone forever ) during the Noah’s flood - in my previous post #10.
See link Post # 10 https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/discussing-noahs-flood-mysteries-theories.184565/
Isa 24:18-20 is like a double edge sword.... and speaking of Noah’s Flood, since this is obviously the account of the 1st Earth being clean dissolved in water when the windows of their heaven were opened. It's speaking of Adam's world being completely destroyed in water during the Flood.
It is also set up as a Snare or Trap....to catch those willingly ignorant unbelievers of this last days.
Here’s the context of the snare or a trap, below.
Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. v19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. v20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Scoffers of the last days will NOT believe that all the inhabitants thereof (except those in the Ark)... together with the 1st Earth were totally destroyed / dissolved in the flood.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed, totally)
These verses from the Old and New Testament confirm that Adam's world, the world that then was, was totally destroyed in the Flood..... and that the heavens and earth which are now, will also be dissolved by fire.
Scoffers, of the end of time, will choose to be "willingly ignorant" of this event which Isaiah describes.
In fact, the same word (”dissolved” )- is used again and kept in store to describe the upcoming prophecy of the new heaven and earth which are now, reserved for fire - and will melt and shall be “dissolved” , by its fervent heat.(not by flood)
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store ("dissolved") , reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2PE 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
I strongly believe that Cain’s generations were also totally and completely destroyed (died) together with the 1st Earth in the Flood.
The sons’ of God spoken in Gen 6:1-4 were prehistoric mankind that came forth from the waters of Adam; Earth and our also to our present world on the 5th Day, as well.
The prehistoric creatures or mankind were called “sons of God“ because they are innocent beings who received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23).
Gen 1:22-23 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. v23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
God bless you.
I AGREE with you and I understand what you are trying to say.
That’s exactly why I described the Prophecy of Isaiah 24:18 -20 as a “Double Edge Sword” which was also set up as a Snare or Trap....to catch those willingly ignorant Unbelievers and Pretenders of this last Days about the total destruction of Adam’s Earth (dissolved; kaput; gone forever ) during the Noah’s flood - in my previous post #10.
See link Post # 10 https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/discussing-noahs-flood-mysteries-theories.184565/
Isa 24:18-20 is like a double edge sword.... and speaking of Noah’s Flood, since this is obviously the account of the 1st Earth being clean dissolved in water when the windows of their heaven were opened. It's speaking of Adam's world being completely destroyed in water during the Flood.
It is also set up as a Snare or Trap....to catch those willingly ignorant unbelievers of this last days.
Here’s the context of the snare or a trap, below.
Isa 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. v19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. v20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Scoffers of the last days will NOT believe that all the inhabitants thereof (except those in the Ark)... together with the 1st Earth were totally destroyed / dissolved in the flood.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed, totally)
These verses from the Old and New Testament confirm that Adam's world, the world that then was, was totally destroyed in the Flood..... and that the heavens and earth which are now, will also be dissolved by fire.
Scoffers, of the end of time, will choose to be "willingly ignorant" of this event which Isaiah describes.
In fact, the same word (”dissolved” )- is used again and kept in store to describe the upcoming prophecy of the new heaven and earth which are now, reserved for fire - and will melt and shall be “dissolved” , by its fervent heat.(not by flood)
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store ("dissolved") , reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2PE 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
I strongly believe that Cain’s generations were also totally and completely destroyed (died) together with the 1st Earth in the Flood.
The sons’ of God spoken in Gen 6:1-4 were prehistoric mankind that came forth from the waters of Adam; Earth and our also to our present world on the 5th Day, as well.
The prehistoric creatures or mankind were called “sons of God“ because they are innocent beings who received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23).
Gen 1:22-23 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. v23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
God bless you.
[QUOTE="2Pillars, post: 3910296, member: 235062
The prehistoric creatures or mankind were called “sons of God“ because they are innocent beings who received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23).
God bless you.[/QUOTE]
There is no scripture that backs this reasoning up. Scripture tells us about the sons of God in several places, and it refers to different beings as sons of God in different scriptures. In Job it refers to angels as being the Sons of God. In Genesis it connects the sons of God with evil.
Genesis 6:1-4 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
There are three orders of angels, the lowest order, the teraphim, are able to take on human form. When Satan rebelled he took a third of heaven with him, and a group of 200 fallen teraphim took on human form and married human women. They were led by a teraphim named Samyaza. In scripture these fallen angels were called sons of God.
There is no scripture uniting Cain with sons of God or with angels or with the nephilin.
The atmosphere of the earth changed when God gave the flood. Scientists have been able to test what this atmosphere was like when caves have been found that sealed in this atmosphere. By changing oxygen levels, moisture in the air, and air pressure they have experimented with duplicating it and found that it promotes growth and healing.
The prehistoric creatures or mankind were called “sons of God“ because they are innocent beings who received the blessings from God (Trinity) on the 5th Day - to be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:22-23).
God bless you.[/QUOTE]
There is no scripture that backs this reasoning up. Scripture tells us about the sons of God in several places, and it refers to different beings as sons of God in different scriptures. In Job it refers to angels as being the Sons of God. In Genesis it connects the sons of God with evil.
Genesis 6:1-4 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
There are three orders of angels, the lowest order, the teraphim, are able to take on human form. When Satan rebelled he took a third of heaven with him, and a group of 200 fallen teraphim took on human form and married human women. They were led by a teraphim named Samyaza. In scripture these fallen angels were called sons of God.
There is no scripture uniting Cain with sons of God or with angels or with the nephilin.
The atmosphere of the earth changed when God gave the flood. Scientists have been able to test what this atmosphere was like when caves have been found that sealed in this atmosphere. By changing oxygen levels, moisture in the air, and air pressure they have experimented with duplicating it and found that it promotes growth and healing.
I remember those quite well. Wonder if that gum is still sold? I remember chewing a bunch of pieces at the same time and blowing these gigantic bubbles. I had to stop doing this as an adult 'cause the popped bubble would get in my mustache. Still, I wouldn't mind chewing a few pieces and reading the little funnies.
Where is the personal insult? You posted some material that is not based in Scripture; I merely used a conveniently appropriate section of your post to point that out. Let's discuss Scripture as you say, not statements with no basis therein.
Criticizing a post is not insulting the person who wrote it. Is there some other aspect of "discussion" that you think is warranted here?
Criticizing a post is not insulting the person who wrote it. Is there some other aspect of "discussion" that you think is warranted here?
Genesis 1:21 tells us that EVERY living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This includes the sons of God or prehistoric mankinds - who's origin is also from the waters.
Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust of the ground. Some Unbelievers see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that the Scripture is mistranslated.
They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally brought forth EVERY Living Creature that moved, from the water, on Day 5.
The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust on the 6th Day, is when YHWH, the Spn of God, squeezed, as a potter would mold a clay, and formed living creatures (His Kinds) from the dust of the ground .
The creatures made from the dust were identical to those brought forth from the waters and could produce offspring together.
The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made/formed on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground. Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.
Like the animals made from the dust, humans also married and produced children with Beings brought forth from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet (Gen 6). Incest was never part of the multiplication process of Humankind, as far as the God’ righteousness is concerned.
After the union between the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and daughters of men (humans) Gen 6, we acquired the DNA of the prehistoric beings and we also have the Human intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human.
We are all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.
God brought forth every living creature that moveth from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced "His /Their Kinds" from the dust of the ground, at the beginning of the 6th Day and brought them to Adam for him name them.
We are all confined to our own kind (flesh) in order to multiply to produce offspring. Unfortunately, Some Religionists and Evolutionism remain ignorant of God’ Truth.
Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust of the ground. Some Unbelievers see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that the Scripture is mistranslated.
They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally brought forth EVERY Living Creature that moved, from the water, on Day 5.
The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust on the 6th Day, is when YHWH, the Spn of God, squeezed, as a potter would mold a clay, and formed living creatures (His Kinds) from the dust of the ground .
The creatures made from the dust were identical to those brought forth from the waters and could produce offspring together.
The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made/formed on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground. Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.
Like the animals made from the dust, humans also married and produced children with Beings brought forth from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet (Gen 6). Incest was never part of the multiplication process of Humankind, as far as the God’ righteousness is concerned.
After the union between the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and daughters of men (humans) Gen 6, we acquired the DNA of the prehistoric beings and we also have the Human intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human.
We are all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.
God brought forth every living creature that moveth from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced "His /Their Kinds" from the dust of the ground, at the beginning of the 6th Day and brought them to Adam for him name them.
We are all confined to our own kind (flesh) in order to multiply to produce offspring. Unfortunately, Some Religionists and Evolutionism remain ignorant of God’ Truth.
You actually refrained from using person insults to disagree this time, it would be nice if you could manage to always do that. From past experience I found you usually don't do as this post did, speak of the scripture. From past experience, you will not be able to keep it up but go into the personal insults as has been my past experience with you.