A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you trying to prove that tongues are demonic? Are you trying to prove that they are bad? What exactly are you arguing for because I don't know what you are trying to argue here?

No. He is not saying that at all

Are you ever going to listen to anyone or keep ASSUMING things?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We need more than the scripture for direction, my friend. If you read the scripture you would see this.

John 14:26 says "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

The HOLY SPIRIT will do these thing, not the scripture. The scripture is VERY important but it CANNOT replace God's voice through the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Endoscopy]

A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

SEGMENT 9 - - By: VCO


Some have told me, “We know that our ‘gift of tongues’ is real because someone always interprets it.” But are they really interpreting the “tongues”? Or, are they only doing what is expected, and equally caught up in the emotional frenzy of the charismatic experience? I read an article several years ago about some students at Dallas Theological Seminary that put the gift of interpretations to the test. While I do not think that their method was very nice, but it did prove the point. One of them memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew. Then that group of students attended a Worship Service at the largest Charismatic Church in Dallas. Waiting till members of the congregation started speaking in “tongues”, with another then standing to give the “interpretation”, THEN the student stood and boldly quoted the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, just as he had memorized it. Sure enough one of the same man that had “interpreted” others, stood and gave a very Biblical interpretation, and the whole congregation was Praising the Lord, not one word of it came out of the 23rd Psalm.

1 Cor. 14:27-28 NAS, “. . . let one interpret; but if there is no interpreter, let him” (“him” - the man who had the Gift of Tongues) “keep silent in the church;”.

NOTICE that obviously only one man (“interpreter” singular) had the “gift of interpretations”, and obviously everyone knew who he was, or they would not know when the “interpreter” was not there. Until we can find a man who can miraculously interpret any verse spoken in any language; perhaps we had better obey what Paul said, “keep silent in the church;”. I absolutely believe that the true “Gift of Interpretations” would have enabled that man to miraculously interpret any language of any people of the world at any time it was spoken in the church. How else would you know if that person was praising the Lord or cursing Him in the church.

An inmate in one of my services recently, without asking me in advance, spoke in his “unknown tongues” and proceeded to give biblical sounding interpretation. Rather than disturb the Service, I went back to my sermon, and waited until after the Service to explain to him that the Dept of Corrections dictated that we needed to stay away from denominational barriers in the generic Protestant Service. I also told him that even if I believed in the modern day “tongues”, which I don’t, I could not permit it because there was no “interpreter”. He said, “Oh, but I have the ‘gift of interpretations’ too.” I then said to him in Turkish, (a language I partially learned while stationed there in the Air Force), “Hi, how are you? And, may God smile on you!” He just said, “Huh?” So much for the modern day “gift of interpretations”. When “Tongues” ceased near the end of the first century, so did the “gift of interpretations.” If anyone really has that gift today, he could easily get a very high paying job at the U.N.


Why do I believe that Tongues has to be done the exact way that the Disciples did it?

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change;…​

​

I will put my faith and trust in the Word of God, not in feelings,​

not in personal experiences, and not in things I have seen.​

2 Cor. 5:7 NIV, “We live by faith, not by sight.”
​

🕮
Titus 2:13
VCO ​

​

Here are the Resource Materials that I have Used for this Study. ​

Resource Materials used:​

​

Holy Bible – KJV, NKJV, NAS, NIV, RSV, TLB, & TEV

Vine’s - Dictionary

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance

The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible

Fausset’s Bible Dictionary

HOLMAN Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible/Hebrew – Aramaic & Greek Dictionary

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics

New Catholic Encyclopedia

Encyclopedia Americana

Encyclopedia Britannica

“The Mystery Religions” book by Samuel Angus

“The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues” book by John P Kildahl

“The Baptism & Gifts of the Holy Spirit” book by Dr. Merrill Unger

“The Charismatics” book by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” study guide by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“The Truth About Tongues” tape series by Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Chuck Swindoll

“Spiritual Gifts” tape series by Dr. Ed Young

“Spiritual Gifts?” a tape by Ben Alexander (ex-Pentecostal & Assembly of God)

“The Gift of Tongues?” a tape by Dr. Jack MacArthur

“The Baptism of the Spirit” video tape by Dr. Gil Rugh (“Truth or Tradition” series)

Personal interview with Pastor Neil Beery (IFCA Interim Pastor at Calvary Baptist Church, Susanville, Ca.,1988)

In the future I would recommend adding the AMPC translation as well. It's advantage is when the original language has multiple meanings they are placed in parentheses. Thus giving a more complete understanding of the scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. I'm trying to prove that we must test the spirits. "Feelings" are not a proper test. Have you read the OP's 1st couple posts?

YES, I pray he finally sees this is what we are saying, and not what he thinks.

 

[Endoscopy]

No. He is not saying that at all

Are you ever going to listen to anyone or keep ASSUMING things?

A quote of Mark Twain comes to mind.

"It is not what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you think you know that ain't so."

I've seen this several times.

 

[VCO]

Are you trying to prove that tongues are demonic? Are you trying to prove that they are bad? What exactly are you arguing for because I don't know what you are trying to argue here?

We are free to believe that ONLY TONGUES, where the Speaker is talking to unbelieving Jews, because Jews require a sign; and he hears in his own native Dialect {correct accent and all}, the Mighty Works of GOD, are the GENUINE TONGUES. Everything else is just an imitation, especially ecstatic utterances.

 

[VCO]

In the future I would recommend adding the AMPC translation as well. It's advantage is when the original language has multiple meanings they are placed in parentheses. Thus giving a more complete understanding of the scripture.

If you are talking about the Amplified Bible, I have it, but I do not use it, because it does not come with Red Letters for Christ speaking.

 

[VCO]

If a pastor says it is from God, we should take his word for it unless God speaks to us telling us otherwise.

Where I come from, that is called:
Blind, leading the Blind.

 

[Endoscopy]

If you are talking about the Amplified Bible, I have it, but I do not use it, because it does not come with Red Letters for Christ speaking.

I am talking about the first edition of the Amplified Bible. They reduced the volume of the parenthetical texts and to me made it less useful than the AMPC. In fact my Bible is my smartphone. I have a web browser set to biblegateway.com. I select book and chapter. Then I can select any translation I want. I go between ESV, NIV, KJV, and AMPC. Once in a while another one. I find it easy to know when Jesus is speaking.

 

[Endoscopy]

We are free to believe that ONLY TONGUES, where the Speaker is talking to unbelieving Jews, because Jews require a sign; and he hears in his own native Dialect {correct accent and all}, the Mighty Works of GOD, are the GENUINE TONGUES. Everything else is just an imitation, especially ecstatic utterances.

1 Corinthians chapter 12 and 14 teaches about tongues. Chapter 13 is the love chapter and puts it in perspective.

 

[PennEd]

If a pastor says it is from God, we should take his word for it unless God speaks to us telling us otherwise.

You can hear God speak to you any time you want. Just open your Bible.If your Pastor says anything contrary to Scripture, that is God saying your Pastor is wrong.
PLEASE read Acts 17:11 and apply it to your Pastor, and everyone else.

 

[VCO]

I am talking about the first edition of the Amplified Bible. They reduced the volume of the parenthetical texts and to me made it less useful than the AMPC. In fact my Bible is my smartphone. I have a web browser set to biblegateway.com. I select book and chapter. Then I can select any translation I want. I go between ESV, NIV, KJV, and AMPC. Once in a while another one. I find it easy to know when Jesus is speaking.

I have WORDsearch 10, and I have at least 12 translations open at all time, as well as a large Library of study helps. They make a free version of WORDsearch Starter it function just like my Paid Version, only not as many books open. HOWEVER, their are OVER 200 FREE BOOKS. AND they will work on the WORDsearch Starter. https://www.wordsearchbible.com/apps/wordsearch-starter The Program has to be installed before you can download Free Books.

Holman's Christian Standard Bible, IS FREE and it came out in 2004, it is my favorite. Other free bibles are:

https://www.wordsearchbible.com/products/free

KJV, CSB, ASV, YLT

 

[VCO]

1 Corinthians chapter 12 and 14 teaches about tongues. Chapter 13 is the love chapter and puts it in perspective.

And the pagan tongues were also in use in the Corinthian Church. TO THE POINT THAT SOMEONE CURSED CHRIST RIGHT IN THE ASSEMBLY. They could not tell the difference which is why PAUL had to write the LETTER to straighten them out.

1 Corinthians 12:2-3 (CSBBible)
2 You know that when you were pagans, you used to be enticed and led astray by mute idols.
3 Therefore I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


In fact that the TEMPLE TO APOLLO was LESS THAN A BLOCK from where the Church first Met.

The Temple of Apollo was one that their PREISTS taught their followers to pray in tongues.

The taught tongues in the following manor: If you say BATTA, BATTA, BATTA over and over again, AS FAST AS YOU CAN, the gods will turn it into a heavenly language that they only can understand.

Jesus said this about the BATTA tongues.

Matthew 6:7 (NIV)
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling [Gk. - battalogeo] like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

And in the Apocrypha:

Sirach 7:14 (NRSV)
14 Do not babble in the assembly of the elders, and do not repeat yourself when you pray.


Some say, "Well we are just a modern day Corinthian Church."

You got no argument from me, COMPLETE with the Inability to tell the True Tongues from the Pagan tongues.




That is the most likely location of the original location of the Corinthian Church, when their were meeting in the home of,
Acts 18:8, "Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who
heard him believed and were baptized." Which was that house were Paul was Staying.

 

[Waggles]

PLEASE read Acts 17:11 and apply it to your Pastor, and everyone else.

Yes it was reading the scriptures that opened my eyes to being a true worshipper.
So I submitted fully to the Word of God: I believed the full gospel of salvation and repented; then I was water baptized by full immersion; then I sought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and when I was I spoke out in a new tongue - just as Jesus and the Apostles
wrote that this shall happen.
Truly if one believes in Jesus and the gospel and studies the scriptures it can only take you to the same doctrine and experience
as the first church of the first century.

26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all,
27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.
Acts 20:26-27

 

[VCO]

Yes it was reading the scriptures that opened my eyes to being a true worshipper.
So I submitted fully to the Word of God: I believed the full gospel of salvation and repented; then I was water baptized by full immersion; then I sought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and when I was I spoke out in a new tongue - just as Jesus and the Apostles
wrote that this shall happen.
Truly if one believes in Jesus and the gospel and studies the scriptures it can only take you to the same doctrine and experience
as the first church of the first century.

26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all,
27 for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.
Acts 20:26-27

And everything I put in my post IS TRUE.

 

[Waggles]

And everything I put in my post IS TRUE.

Nonsense. Your post is fanciful, and shows up your complete ignorance of the fundamentals of the gospel
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again?
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth.
So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:

 

[VCO]

Nonsense. Your post is fanciful, and shows up your complete ignorance of the fundamentals of the gospel
preached by Jesus and the Apostles.

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again?
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth.
So is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3:

He speaks to me all the time THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES, and VERY FREQUENTLY IN MY HEART, Once in a THOUGHT that I knew came from HIM, and on two occasions He Spoke to me an VERY audible voice that was like it was BOOMING, and the second time HE HAD TO YELL AT ME in that SAME booming voice, to pickup that hitch hikers, and I HIT THE BRAKES INSTANTLY without think. AND WITH ALL FOUR WHEELS SCREAMING and SMOKING slid to a stop, shaking like a leaf.

GUESS WHAT, EVERY TIME HE SPOKE TO ME, IT WAS IN ENGLISH.

You have fallen for the False Doctrine of imitation tongues.

 

[Waggles]

GUESS WHAT, EVERY TIME HE SPOKE TO ME, IT WAS IN ENGLISH.

So what!!
When the Lord has spoken audibly to me it is in English. When God speaks to his church in the gifts of interpretation and
prophecy it is in English.
But none of this discounts the fundamental truth that true worshippers shall speak in tongues: that is praying IN the
Holy Spirit directly to God.

 

[Endoscopy]

I have WORDsearch 10, and I have at least 12 translations open at all time, as well as a large Library of study helps. They make a free version of WORDsearch Starter it function just like my Paid Version, only not as many books open. HOWEVER, their are OVER 200 FREE BOOKS. AND they will work on the WORDsearch Starter. https://www.wordsearchbible.com/apps/wordsearch-starter The Program has to be installed before you can download Free Books.

Holman's Christian Standard Bible, IS FREE and it came out in 2004, it is my favorite. Other free bibles are:

https://www.wordsearchbible.com/products/free

KJV, CSB, ASV, YLT

Like I said. I use biblegateway.com and can go to ANY translation free. I use only my smartphone as my Bible and also commentary. All sorts of free software is available to use.

 

[VCO]

Like I said. I use biblegateway.com and can go to ANY translation free. I use only my smartphone as my Bible and also commentary. All sorts of free software is available to use.

I have used almost every software program, and NOTHING compares to WORDsearch 10. To each his own favorite.