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GtrPkr
Guest
I'm trying to show that you have an opportunity here to lead by example. How about just writing for us what would be an appropriate prayer given these circumstances?
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES
- Thread starter VCO
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You seem to be trying to be a peacemaker, so why does it feel like you want me to compromise, what GOD has put on my heart to BELIEVE ? ?
I have felt NO LOVE from almost all of the Charismatics. One Pentecostal has show me his love. I have tried to Agree to Disagree with everyone of the Charismatics, and Pentecostals. One only accepted that we still can agree to disagree on tongues, and it will not effect our friendship. Everyone else Just wants to insult the beliefs that GOD opened my eyes to. I made it PLAIN that I do not want to debate this subject; and they came to insult anyhow. I have tried to make peace with them, and still they just insult. I have a thick hide, and it does not matter that much. However, here is where it feels like I am at:
1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 . . . —how can God’s love reside in him?
1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
Matthew 10:13-14 (NASB)
13 "If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace.
14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
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GtrPkr
Guest
That does not surprise me.
Many of them believe if you do not speak in tongues, you are not saved.
Many of them believe tongues are the EVIDENCE that YOU ARE SAVED.
Many of them believe tongues are the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (false doctrine).
Many of the worship the speaking of tongues.
You touch there Holy Grail, even if they are words from the BIBLE they does not are NOT from GOD, and Anathema, will be the Least word they will call you. You are doing the work of Satan work, is another favorite of them.
Many of them Trust the Excited Feeling, they get while speaking in tongues, is proof that it is of GOD.
I forgot that one. But that Excited Feelings was what Plato was so impressed with about 400 years before Christ, that he labeled it DIVINE FRENZY, when he spoke in that that Ecstatic Utterances in the worship of Apollo.
I forgot that one. But that Excited Feelings was what Plato was so impressed with about 400 years before Christ, that he labeled it DIVINE FRENZY, when he spoke in that that Ecstatic Utterances in the worship of Apollo.
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GtrPkr
Guest
I definitely agree with you there! Milk vs meat LOL. People just want to go to church and feel good... Which really isn't a bad thing, at least they're headed in the right direction. But, I also agree that, if all you're looking for is that feeling, you leave yourself open to be misled.
Here is the best statement that I can make about the so-called modern day tongues.
1 Corinthians 13:8-11 (ASV)
8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 13:8-11 (ASV)
8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
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UnderGrace
Guest
I would not refuse.
If they cannot agree to the foundation of tongues God mocking those who mock Him then why would they look any deeper? The sign confirms those who will not believe prophecy . Yet for all that (Isaiah 28 and 1 Corinthians 14 as a law not subject to change ) they still refuse to believe prophecy .
The same doctrine of tongues according to the foundation Isaiah 28 that has to do with God mocking them that mock Him through the oral traditions of men as this one? yet for all that they still refuse to believe God not seen
Find out what the sign confirms then build your confidence.
who here gets excited feeling speaking in tongues?
are there similarities between what the hindu are doing and some hyper charismatics? yes it looks the same. but so do many christian services look the same as jehovah's witnesses. should we then say its jehovah's witnesses the way we worship in church?
you see? things can be same looking but not the same. some worship God of the bible, some worship hindu gods or apollo like plato did.
thats difference.
Telling someone that their beliefs are unsound is not insulting the ideas. Questioning the ideas' scriptural foundation is not insulting them. Pointing out flaws in reasoning is not insulting them. Challenging their validity is not insulting them. Saying they (the beliefs) are stupid is insulting them... but pause there for a moment...VCO said:
We have all held stupid beliefs at times. Our parents, teachers, friends and peers have pointed out the errors in our ideas, or ridiculed them and caused us to reconsider them. We have been refined and improved through the process, even though it has been humbling and even embarrassing at times. What happens when we allow our ideas to be challenged? They either get shredded or reinforced, and both are constructive. Bad ideas should get shredded so that good ideas may replace them.
I've asked you many times about Acts 10, which does not conform to your view. You have not responded. Are you going to step up and respond this time?
Very much similarity between what is done in Charismatic churches; and what the Hindus do according the Video posted by a concerned Pentecostal, and according to books I have read in the Greek Mystery Religion, and what Plato did.
Jesus said:
Matthew 6:6-7 (NIV)
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling [Gk. - Battalogeo]
like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
The real TONGUES, always had unbelieving Jews who HEARD in their OWN DIALEKTOS {that is language so specific even the ACCENT WAS CORRECT}, specifically the mighty works of GOD.
Acts 2:5-12 (NIV)
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7 Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? [ Galileans were know to have a thick Accent.]
8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language [Gk. - Dialektos] ? ? ?
9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome
11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--
we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"
12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?"
Now is my turn to ask a QUESTION? Now was there TIME enough to Translate in every KNOWN LANGUAGE UNDER HEAVEN, especially when Peter's message was so long? Perhaps the REAL GIFT OF TONGUES was much, much more than just the speakers, so maybe it had to be the HEARERS TOO. Maybe They Spoke, and the HEARERS Heard in their own Dialektos simultaneously? EITHER WAY it was not the jibber jabber that goes on today.
Please feel free to read my Study, and the videos after that. What others may not know, is I was seeking to speak in Tongues, when I started to do this study. I ended up rather quickly proving to myself the modern day tongues were a complete counterfeit.
Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.
I have stepped up...…. no such thing as a "sign gift". We walk by faith the unseen . Just confirm what the sign confirms, then Acts 10 will fall into place . Tongues is one of the many manners of prophecy . The sign represent those who do not beleive prophecy. Those in Acts were believers. They did not make a mockery of the word of God (prophecy) It worked in them to both will and do the good pleasure of God.
Why murmur? The sign is not against them that beleive prophecy but is against those who mock the word of God in exchange for the oral traditions of men .