If the Serial Fornicator is More Forgiven and Accepted than the Divorced Person, Why Bother Risking Marriage?

[seoulsearch]

Based on what Jesus said to the woman at the well, I don't think it's a sin to remarry. I think what happens is that God does not recognize any proceeding marriages (he does not honor any future contracts) if the marriage ended outside the allowed reasons given in the bible.

I say this because Jesus did not condemn the woman at the well for marrying 5 men, he only said she was right about not having a husband.

This is another excellent point that I have wondered about, too.

Years ago I wrote a thread that stated if a second (or third, or more, etc.) marriage is adultery, does that mean that the people who are currently remarried are living in a state of adultery, and should therefore divorce their current spouse and just stay alone and single for the rest of their lives?

I asked this because I had noticed that many of the current people who strongly posted against allowing the divorced to remarry had mentioned elsewhere on the forum that they were in fact the products of second-generation marriages themselves (mentioning their step-parents, etc.)

What I was trying to ask them (but remain somewhat tactful) was, "If we follow the letter of the law you're endorsing, why aren't you acknowledging that this means your own parents are living in adultery and not truly married, meaning that you yourself are a spiritually illegitimate child, and that according to the very word you're preaching, your own parents should separate or divorce and remain single and celibate for the rest of their lives, too? Why aren't you busy telling your own parents that they shouldn't be married and are committing adultery before telling anyone else they can't remarry?"

As could be understood (and predicted,) the general consensus seemed to be that people wanted the marriages their parents currently had (as well as themselves) to be seen as legitimate and right before God, but spoke strongly against OTHER divorced people remarrying.

Once again, I am NOT trying to advocate rebelling against God's commands in any way.

But the constant inconsistencies and exceptions that are made to another's benefit drive me crazy, and this sense of, "If it involves me, it's blessed by God; if it involves you, you're living in sin," are the very kinds of things that have made me want to leave the church myself.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

1 Cor 7: 15

But if the husband or wife who is not a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases, a christian husband is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.

1 Cor 7: 28

But if you do get married, it is not a sin. However, those who get married at this time will have troubles, and I am trying to spare you those problems.

That is the reason behind the advice not to remarry but it is not a sin since you are no longer bound. But still divorce and remarriage has consequences as well as fornication but the Church is more forgiving to those who fornicate because of the culture and mindset of society so we can't control that.

 

[Miri]

Hi Seoul just a general comment. Too many people spend too much
time minding other people’s business, instead of dealing with the log
in their own eye. If I were you I would just ignore the lot of them and
instead go with your own Godly convictions/wisdom etc.

You deserve better. ♥️

 

[seoulsearch]

Hi Seoul just a general comment. Too many people spend too much
time minding other people’s business, instead of dealing with the log
in their own eye. If I were you I would just ignore the lot of them and
instead go with your own Godly convictions/wisdom etc.

You deserve better. ♥️

Hi Miri,

Thanks for the kind words.

I should probably specify that I actually didn't write this thread with my own life particularly in mind (as in, if I did remarry, I know it's something between myself, that person, our spiritual leaders, and God.) This thread was actually inspired by a conversation with a few other divorced people who have unfortunately been treated in the ways I described in the OP.

I mentioned my own situation because people seem to relate better to a discussion (and feel freer to contribute) when there is a personal example.

I am finally getting to a stage in life where I'm almost ok with it if God doesn't want me to remarry (but I still stage a protest every now and then, such as this thread.)

And although I would definitely try my best to go with God's leading, I actually hope that God would send me the type of person I've been describing in this thread - someone who's dedicated to living out his faith, hard-working and loyal, but overlooked by those who (erroneously) think that he isn't fit to marry, but God says that he is.

To me, there's nothing more inspiring than an underdog who keeps on doing the right thing and works to overcome the odds.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hi Zero,

I'm going to quote your posts NOT because I'm somehow trying to pick on them, but because you brought up really good points that I had wanted to include in the original post.

This is something I've thought about as well - that the divorced person's sin is taken in account more heavily because marriage is a lifelong vow and contract before God.

However, it's also something that makes what I'm describing in this thread all the more frustrating (to me, at least) because the person who was willing to take a risk by making that vow seems to be much more heavily punished and restricted, while the person who made the mistake of reaping the benefits of marriage without committing to a marriage (seemingly) gets to start over as many times as they wish.

Yes, well there is this scripture from Ecclasiastes:

Ecclesiastes 5:5 NIV: It is better not to make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it.

 

[TamLynn]

Hi Miri,

Thanks for the kind words.

I should probably specify that I actually didn't write this thread with my own life particularly in mind (as in, if I did remarry, I know it's something between myself, that person, our spiritual leaders, and God.) This thread was actually inspired by a conversation with a few other divorced people who have unfortunately been treated in the ways I described in the OP.

I mentioned my own situation because people seem to relate better to a discussion (and feel freer to contribute) when there is a personal example.

I am finally getting to a stage in life where I'm almost ok with it if God doesn't want me to remarry (but I still stage a protest every now and then, such as this thread.)

And although I would definitely try my best to go with God's leading, I actually hope that God would send me the type of person I've been describing in this thread - someone who's dedicated to living out his faith, hard-working and loyal, but overlooked by those who (erroneously) think that he isn't fit to marry, but God says that he is.

To me, there's nothing more inspiring than an underdog who keeps on doing the right thing and works to overcome the odds.

What I like about your posts SS, (and some of the others) is that you ask (very eloquently) the questions alot of us have but are afraid to ask or aren't sure how to ask. (Raises hand)
I'm believe your threads encourage and uplift many people! Myself included.
I don't always comment, but I read and pray through alot of what I read on here, especially things I've honestly never thought of before! Those things open my eyes to ways I need to be more compassionate and Christ like.
*I tried to insert the heart emoji here but my phone won't let me*

 

[Dino246]

A related thought occurred to me...

If and when a serial adulterer or "living-togetherer" does decide to get married, typically the church will laud him or her and celebrate the marriage.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. What's terribly wrong is when the same church would discourage or even shun a divorce victim should they decide to remarry.

 

[GtrPkr]

You probably have my old Lutheran school restrictions to thank for that.

There are many subjects I wish I could post about, and I've always been known to be a bit controversial, but I also have to think about how the discussions can be kept G-rated for the sake of the youngsters who come here.

I have always been the type of person who runs straight into the most turbulent part of the emotional storm.

The latest "series" I've been wanting to post about is how Christians can or should prepare themselves for marriage when they have an abusive past, and/or are marrying someone who has been abused.

I know there is a lot of thought within the Christian community that people just don't try hard enough to make marriages work, but I have always liked talking to people about real life vs. the mask we put on for others, and there are so many other factors going on behind the scenes.

People often talk to me about the sexual abuse they've gone through. The good Christian advice would be to talk over everything before you get married, but many people don't , or have, and found that it didn't help, or maybe don't even know what might go wrong until after they get married. I once talked to a young person who was thankful for their loving, Christian spouse, but found that a part of them had been conditioned from their childhood abuse, and it was greatly affecting their marriage. They really had no way of knowing this until after they married.

These are the kinds of topics I think people are dying to talk about (and are emotionally dying from), but on a family-friendly forum on which all ages have all access at all times, as much as I want to bring these discussions to the floor, I'd have to think of a way to do so in a manner that a parent would feel comfortable letting their child read.

Wow! How did I miss this thread?!? LOL, Bravo sister! The problem is that there are far too many variables and far too many ways to argue this subject and far too many ways to justify oneself. I think tourist nailed it! Marriage is "supposed" to be a union by God, but most young adults don't truly understand what that means or even have an appropriate support system to encourage and define such a union. Then there's the question of Mosaic law vs...... well, everyone else. The family unit today is so far removed from what it was supposed to be THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO that it's hard to see how the rules for the Israelites could even apply today. For example, how do you deal with finding out that everything you thought you knew about your spouse in the beginning was an absolute lie? Especially if it's your first marriage but he/she was married before? What are the rules there? Without going into any detail, right or wrong according to scripture, my divorce was absolutely justified. As evidenced by the fact that it was my marriage that was compromising my integrity as a Christian...... AND MY DRUNK ADULTEROUS WIFE BLAMED ME FOR THAT!........ but I digress......
Relationships are complicated, life is complicated..... but after 21 years of miserable patience and prayer with her, BECAUSE I'M A CHRISTIAN!!!...., I take solace in the fact that I did my best and I must be forgiven. Don't know if that helps but it's all I've got. Moving forward.... If I'm lucky enough.... I've decided that my next relationship will be with someone I know that I can pray with.... A LOT!!!

 

[seoulsearch]

A related thought occurred to me...

If and when a serial adulterer or "living-togetherer" does decide to get married, typically the church will laud him or her and celebrate the marriage.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. What's terribly wrong is when the same church would discourage or even shun a divorce victim should they decide to remarry.

Wow! How did I miss this thread?!? LOL, Bravo sister! The problem is that there are far too many variables and far too many ways to argue this subject and far too many ways to justify oneself. I think tourist nailed it! Marriage is "supposed" to be a union by God, but most young adults don't truly understand what that means or even have an appropriate support system to encourage and define such a union. Then there's the question of Mosaic law vs...... well, everyone else. The family unit today is so far removed from what it was supposed to be THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO that it's hard to see how the rules for the Israelites could even apply today. For example, how do you deal with finding out that everything you thought you knew about your spouse in the beginning was an absolute lie? Especially if it's your first marriage but he/she was married before? What are the rules there? Without going into any detail, right or wrong according to scripture, my divorce was absolutely justified. As evidenced by the fact that it was my marriage that was compromising my integrity as a Christian...... AND MY DRUNK ADULTEROUS WIFE BLAMED ME FOR THAT!........ but I digress......
Relationships are complicated, life is complicated..... but after 21 years of miserable patience and prayer with her, BECAUSE I'M A CHRISTIAN!!!...., I take solace in the fact that I did my best and I must be forgiven. Don't know if that helps but it's all I've got. Moving forward.... If I'm lucky enough.... I've decided that my next relationship will be with someone I know that I can pray with.... A LOT!!!

Dino - I agree with you 100%.

We all sin, and we all make the wrong choices. But why are some people hugged and told about the wonders of forgiveness and clean slates, while others are told they ruined their one and only chance?

Most people have heard the old saying, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" (For any younger friends who might not be familiar with this, it means, "Why bother getting married when you're already freely getting all the marital benefits?")

But this is something I ask God about often: "Why is it that the people who vow to not just buy the cow, but the entire farm are then thrown off the farm and never allowed back if something goes wrong, but yet the people who take not only the milk and the calves without ever offering to buy the cow (let alone the farm), are welcomed back at any time to take another pick from the rest of the herd?"

Both have sinned and maybe even made similar (relational) wrong choices. But the consequences for each are radically different.

GtrPrkr - I understand what you're saying about the family unit being far removed from what it was in Biblical times.

I do believe that God, of course, knew how much the family would change over the years and took this into account when He spoke His Word into being.

I want to state (just as a clarification of my own beliefs) that I am NOT trying to ask that the Bible somehow be rewritten according to my own beliefs or supposed benefit, which I realize is what some might think I'm trying to say. Nope. Not at all. I believe that God's wisdom and principles span the entire time He has appointed to the earth. If God doesn't want me to get married again, the only thing I ask is that He would be the one to decide, not the ones who are quick to judge and make that decision for people like me. But I do wonder if this is the way He intended or wants situations like these to be handled, because although these are the questions I ask God personally, I don't want anyone to read this thread and think, "Yup. That's it. I'm just gonna fornicate my way through life because marriage is way too risky and only for fools."

I agree, GtrPrkr, that the main emphasis on marriage has to be serving. If we're not ready to serve, we're just not ready. I'm currently reading "The Dating Manifesto," by Lisa Anderson, who is in her 40's and has a national radio program for Christian singles. I enjoyed her book, but I was frustrated in that she seemed to hand out the same advice as anyone else - Get out there. Get involved. Meet someone. Don't turn into a stalker, don't freak out about every little thing, but be sure to go find someone and get married!

But yet, Miss Anderson has never been married either, even though she would very much like to be.

Personally, I found an article on the ministry website (where she serves) to be much more helpful. Miss Anderson wrote an article saying that even though singles might miss out on the lesson of unselfish service through marriage, it can also come in the form of caring for our aging parents. She wrote about taking her mother (who has dementia) into her home, and admitted that emotionally, it is killing her, because it's nonstop, 24/7, unselfish, unconditional love.

Reading that article kind of stopped me in my tracks.

I couldn't help but think, "Wow. If I'm not ready to serve like that, I'm not ready to get married," which is a lesson I have to guess many singles aren't ready for.

 

[LittleMermaid]

I think a problem is that when people get married they make a vow to God that says "till death do us part." So you're basically promising God that until either of you die, you will love and stick with each other. The problem is, what happens when one party leaves and doesn't keep his or her end of the bargain?

I think people should change their vows to include everything. Like I've seriously thought about putting in my vows stuff like "if you cheat on me, I will leave..." lol it doesn't sound so romantic and lovely...but it's honest, right?

 

[Miri]

I think a problem is that when people get married they make a vow to God that says "till death do us part." So you're basically promising God that until either of you die, you will love and stick with each other. The problem is, what happens when one party leaves and doesn't keep his or her end of the bargain?

I think people should change their vows to include everything. Like I've seriously thought about putting in my vows stuff like "if you cheat on me, I will leave..." lol it doesn't sound so romantic and lovely...but it's honest, right?

I don’t know why but your post made me chuckle.

I know many who cohabit and they regard themselves just as committed as
marriage. I suppose their motto would be “the tax man and mortgage provider
says till death us do part”!”

 

[Krumbeard]

Wow! How did I miss this thread?!? LOL, Bravo sister! The problem is that there are far too many variables and far too many ways to argue this subject and far too many ways to justify oneself. I think tourist nailed it! Marriage is "supposed" to be a union by God, but most young adults don't truly understand what that means or even have an appropriate support system to encourage and define such a union. Then there's the question of Mosaic law vs...... well, everyone else. The family unit today is so far removed from what it was supposed to be THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO that it's hard to see how the rules for the Israelites could even apply today. For example, how do you deal with finding out that everything you thought you knew about your spouse in the beginning was an absolute lie? Especially if it's your first marriage but he/she was married before? What are the rules there? Without going into any detail, right or wrong according to scripture, my divorce was absolutely justified. As evidenced by the fact that it was my marriage that was compromising my integrity as a Christian...... AND MY DRUNK ADULTEROUS WIFE BLAMED ME FOR THAT!........ but I digress......
Relationships are complicated, life is complicated..... but after 21 years of miserable patience and prayer with her, BECAUSE I'M A CHRISTIAN!!!...., I take solace in the fact that I did my best and I must be forgiven. Don't know if that helps but it's all I've got. Moving forward.... If I'm lucky enough.... I've decided that my next relationship will be with someone I know that I can pray with.... A LOT!!!

Wow! I'm sure as tough as it was you learned tons.
Again, Wow! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Krumbeard]

Dino - I agree with you 100%.

We all sin, and we all make the wrong choices. But why are some people hugged and told about the wonders of forgiveness and clean slates, while others are told they ruined their one and only chance?

Most people have heard the old saying, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" (For any younger friends who might not be familiar with this, it means, "Why bother getting married when you're already freely getting all the marital benefits?")

But this is something I ask God about often: "Why is it that the people who vow to not just buy the cow, but the entire farm are then thrown off the farm and never allowed back if something goes wrong, but yet the people who take not only the milk and the calves without ever offering to buy the cow (let alone the farm), are welcomed back at any time to take another pick from the rest of the herd?"

Both have sinned and maybe even made similar (relational) wrong choices. But the consequences for each are radically different.

GtrPrkr - I understand what you're saying about the family unit being far removed from what it was in Biblical times.

I do believe that God, of course, knew how much the family would change over the years and took this into account when He spoke His Word into being.

I want to state (just as a clarification of my own beliefs) that I am NOT trying to ask that the Bible somehow be rewritten according to my own beliefs or supposed benefit, which I realize is what some might think I'm trying to say. Nope. Not at all. I believe that God's wisdom and principles span the entire time He has appointed to the earth. If God doesn't want me to get married again, the only thing I ask is that He would be the one to decide, not the ones who are quick to judge and make that decision for people like me. But I do wonder if this is the way He intended or wants situations like these to be handled, because although these are the questions I ask God personally, I don't want anyone to read this thread and think, "Yup. That's it. I'm just gonna fornicate my way through life because marriage is way too risky and only for fools."

I agree, GtrPrkr, that the main emphasis on marriage has to be serving. If we're not ready to serve, we're just not ready. I'm currently reading "The Dating Manifesto," by Lisa Anderson, who is in her 40's and has a national radio program for Christian singles. I enjoyed her book, but I was frustrated in that she seemed to hand out the same advice as anyone else - Get out there. Get involved. Meet someone. Don't turn into a stalker, don't freak out about every little thing, but be sure to go find someone and get married!

But yet, Miss Anderson has never been married either, even though she would very much like to be.

Personally, I found an article on the ministry website (where she serves) to be much more helpful. Miss Anderson wrote an article saying that even though singles might miss out on the lesson of unselfish service through marriage, it can also come in the form of caring for our aging parents. She wrote about taking her mother (who has dementia) into her home, and admitted that emotionally, it is killing her, because it's nonstop, 24/7, unselfish, unconditional love.

Reading that article kind of stopped me in my tracks.

I couldn't help but think, "Wow. If I'm not ready to serve like that, I'm not ready to get married," which is a lesson I have to guess many singles aren't ready for.

Sooo...from what I'm reading in this thread is that rather than go through hassle of marriage it's okay to just fornicate my way through the rest of my life?

That line cracked me up! Never heard it said that way before. 😁

Very interesting reading for sure. Thanks all.

 

[tourist]

But those who had kids out of wedlock did not promise God anything so they are free to still look for a spouse.

Technically, if you have sex with someone you are marrying them according to scripture. I could be wrong about this though but I believe it is correct. If that's true than most people now married are not really married at all in a spiritual sense if they had sex with someone other than their spouse before marriage.

 

[GtrPkr]

Dino - I agree with you 100%.

We all sin, and we all make the wrong choices. But why are some people hugged and told about the wonders of forgiveness and clean slates, while others are told they ruined their one and only chance?

Most people have heard the old saying, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" (For any younger friends who might not be familiar with this, it means, "Why bother getting married when you're already freely getting all the marital benefits?")

But this is something I ask God about often: "Why is it that the people who vow to not just buy the cow, but the entire farm are then thrown off the farm and never allowed back if something goes wrong, but yet the people who take not only the milk and the calves without ever offering to buy the cow (let alone the farm), are welcomed back at any time to take another pick from the rest of the herd?"

Both have sinned and maybe even made similar (relational) wrong choices. But the consequences for each are radically different.

GtrPrkr - I understand what you're saying about the family unit being far removed from what it was in Biblical times.

I do believe that God, of course, knew how much the family would change over the years and took this into account when He spoke His Word into being.

I want to state (just as a clarification of my own beliefs) that I am NOT trying to ask that the Bible somehow be rewritten according to my own beliefs or supposed benefit, which I realize is what some might think I'm trying to say. Nope. Not at all. I believe that God's wisdom and principles span the entire time He has appointed to the earth. If God doesn't want me to get married again, the only thing I ask is that He would be the one to decide, not the ones who are quick to judge and make that decision for people like me. But I do wonder if this is the way He intended or wants situations like these to be handled, because although these are the questions I ask God personally, I don't want anyone to read this thread and think, "Yup. That's it. I'm just gonna fornicate my way through life because marriage is way too risky and only for fools."

I agree, GtrPrkr, that the main emphasis on marriage has to be serving. If we're not ready to serve, we're just not ready. I'm currently reading "The Dating Manifesto," by Lisa Anderson, who is in her 40's and has a national radio program for Christian singles. I enjoyed her book, but I was frustrated in that she seemed to hand out the same advice as anyone else - Get out there. Get involved. Meet someone. Don't turn into a stalker, don't freak out about every little thing, but be sure to go find someone and get married!

But yet, Miss Anderson has never been married either, even though she would very much like to be.

Personally, I found an article on the ministry website (where she serves) to be much more helpful. Miss Anderson wrote an article saying that even though singles might miss out on the lesson of unselfish service through marriage, it can also come in the form of caring for our aging parents. She wrote about taking her mother (who has dementia) into her home, and admitted that emotionally, it is killing her, because it's nonstop, 24/7, unselfish, unconditional love.

Reading that article kind of stopped me in my tracks.

I couldn't help but think, "Wow. If I'm not ready to serve like that, I'm not ready to get married," which is a lesson I have to guess many singles aren't ready for.

That's another great point. Mosaic law was written during a time when multi-generational families living together wasn't only common, it was very expected. As a young man you were expected to marry, establish yourself and your family, and ultimately be able to care for your elderly parents and in-laws. That was just life back then, that's why bloodline and inheritance was so important. Jesus said He did not come to change the law but to fulfill it. Many Mosaic laws were simply intended to insure that the bloodline of David was maintained and that the Messiah was a Jew. Food habits for example, did Jesus contradict the Bible when He said "It's not what a man puts into his mouth that makes him unclean?"

 

[tourist]

If I'm lucky enough.... I've decided that my next relationship will be with someone I know that I can pray with.... A LOT!!!

I am fortunate in that my wife and I have daily devotion, bible study and prayer each day. The couple that prays together stays together.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Technically, if you have sex with someone you are marrying them according to scripture. I could be wrong about this though but I believe it is correct. If that's true than most people now married are not really married at all in a spiritual sense if they had sex with someone other than their spouse before marriage.

I've heard that argument before but it can't be true because JEsus told the woman at the well that she had no husband even though she had been married 5 times. I'm sure she must have had 5 wedding nights as well.

 

[JustEli]

Jesus told her it was well to admit she wasnt married because it was the truth, not because of any other
reason. To twist it, would be self justification, and we are incapable of justifying ourselves
in any way shape or form.

Also, sex aint marriage married or anything close to it. Ask me how I know, you wont like the answer.

Sex is part of marriage, but is not the vow.

 

[GtrPkr]

Jesus told her it was well to admit she wasnt married because it was the truth, not because of any other
reason. To twist it, would be self justification, and we are incapable of justifying ourselves
in any way shape or form.

Also, sex aint marriage married or anything close to it. Ask me how I know, you wont like the answer.

Sex is part of marriage, but is not the vow.

Ooooh, Ooooh... how do you know, how do you know?

 

[GtrPkr]

If you've broken one commandment then you have broken them all. That's the reason we all need forgiveness.... and also the reason we should not judge.