Rapture= false teaching

[lecoop]

so coop.
you covered:

- gatherings
- traffic lights
- deer
- more gatherings
- 144,000

AND THE SECOND ADVENT.

where's your trumpets study? you don't have one.

and, according to your lame theory, anyone not "looking" into the sky will be "left behind". tell me coop....do you work? what does your boss say about you NEVER LOOKING AT YOUR TASK?

how do you manage to drive without crashing your car?

If you are not looking for Him then, you will be left behind. It will not be fun.

seriously though (as hard as this is)....did Jesus come all the way from Glory, live a Perfectly Righteous life under The Law, die an agonizing death on Calvary and Rise from the dead so that anyone who is looking into the sky can get saved?

are you for real? do you have the whole collection?

Do you just suppose there will be trumpets in the millennium?



Here are some gatheringings:

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him

Revelation 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

psssst....coop......ALL SECOND ADVENT!

1 Corinthians 15:50-55
Mystery and Victory
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

BUT, we are to believe, Paul didn't REALLY mean the LAST TRUMPET. Behold! I tell you a mystery.

~



this is absolutely baffling that you yourself could write this, yet not see it.

So explain this to all of us: HOW is the rapture of the church, gathering from heaven? It is written that the dead in Christ RISE. That means they go from a place UNDER THE GROUND UP to a place above ground" RISE. Of course this is speaking of the bodies, not the spirit and soul, which come with Jesus. I don't know if the spirit meets with the body the instant the body is renewed, or after it is raised - for Paul does not tell us. But I wish for you to explain how this can be a gathering from HEAVEN?

After the dead in Christ are risen, then we that are alive and remain are caught up. Or we could say SEIZED or SNATCHED by the power of the Holy Spirit. THERE ARE NO ANGELS GATHERING. We get bodies LIKE the angels. You must AD LIB to get angels into Paul's gathering. Now again, SHOW US how this gathering from planet earth can be a gathering from HEAVEN. I can hardly wait..............

As I have said, even a 5th grader could understand the rapture gathers from the earth.....

Just to help you out, here are other verses where this same word, "heaven" is used:

Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Rev 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

So the heaven in question is where the throne of God is. We are only there in authority. We LIVE ON EARTH and that is where we will be gathered from.

Even a 5th grader would understand the last of a SERIES. Again tell us all: will God send angels so there will NEVER be another trumpet blast? If you only understood a smattering of John's chronology, you would know that the 7th trumpet in Revelation, which sounds at the exact midpoint of the week, sounds about 3.5 years AFTER Paul's last trump sounds. Again, it is the last of a SERIES, such as, and probably as the last of the FEAST OF TRUMPETS.

The ONLY people that will be qualified for the rapture are those that are SOLD OUT to Jesus. Anyone living a half hearted Christian life, still loving the world, will be left behind. Oh, they can still get to heaven, but it will be through death. It will be HARD. How many times did Jesus tell us to WATCH? CAn you WATCH for His coming while at the same time believing that He will come at the END of the 70th week? Impossible. If you believe He will come at the end to rapture you, then that is where your faith is. That is what you believe.

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

WHO shall He appear to? WHO? What does it say? The world? NOT!!


Coop

 

[lecoop]

Concerning the "Last Trump" of God.

13 For I have bent Judah, My bow,
Fitted the bow with Ephraim,
And raised up your sons, O Zion,
Against your sons, O Greece,
And made you like the sword of a mighty man.”
14 Then the LORD will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord GOD will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The LORD of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The LORD their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land." (Zech 9:13-16)

The near prophecy is the defeat of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C., whom is refered to by Christ historically as the "abomination of desolation". The shift to the future then comes in verse 16 when Israel as a nation will be saved after the second and last time God blows His trumpet. This will occur when Christ rescues the church, as we are told,

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52)

and also,

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thes 4:16)

We also see that this same trumpet initiates the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, according to Zechariah, as well as Paul, as we are told,

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess 2:8)

It is indeed the Trump of God that initiates both the Rapture, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, at the same time. Just as Noah was placed into the ark just before the rain fell, just as Lot was forced out of the city just before it's judgement, so shall the church be pulled out from within the Tribulation just before the Lord's wrath. His pattern is continuous and perfect.

Dream dream dream, dream........(Everly Brothers)

There are many trumps sounded in the bible. Just at the Feast of Trumpets there are many trumpets sounded. But the "last trump" at the rapture of the church will come about 7 years BEFORE the coming on the white horse. And there will be other trumpets sounded AFTER Paul's last trumpet - showing us that it is the last of a SERIES. In fact, ALL SEVEN of John's series in Revelation will be sounded AFTER the rapture. Believe it, for it is written.

Coop

 

[Red33]

on the sounding of which trumpet does the pretribulation take place?

zone.

ps: are you are freemason red?

No I am not a freemason. I have never laid brick or stone and if I did, I wouldn't do it for free. So if I do decide to do masonry work in the future, it won't be for free, you can count on that. lol

But what is interesting is the message that Christ had for the church of Thyatira in (Rev 2:18-29), verse 26-28...

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.

What do you think of that 'I WILL GIVE HIM THE MORNING STAR.' And, I might as well throw in (2Pt 1:19-21)...

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and THE DAY STAR arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

What the heck, one more passage won't hurt (Rev 22:16,17)...

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I don't know, it must be just me, but some scholars have implied that there is a strong possibility that when Christ comes back for the church (His bride), He come as the bright and morning star and at the same time the day star arises in the heart of the believer (who comes with Him and those still alive upon the earth) to meet the Lord in the air. But, that's just some scholars and what do they know anyways, They're just a bunch of knuckle heads that believes in the rapture and is part of the Babylonian system that takes people to hell.

 

[zone]

Concerning the "Last Trump" of God.

13 For I have bent Judah, My bow,
Fitted the bow with Ephraim,
And raised up your sons, O Zion,
Against your sons, O Greece,
And made you like the sword of a mighty man.”
14 Then the LORD will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord GOD will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The LORD of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The LORD their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land." (Zech 9:13-16)

The near prophecy is the defeat of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C., whom is refered to by Christ historically as the "abomination of desolation". The shift to the future then comes in verse 16 when Israel as a nation will be saved after the second and last time God blows His trumpet. This will occur when Christ rescues the church, as we are told,

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:51,52)

and also,

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thes 4:16)

We also see that this same trumpet initiates the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, according to Zechariah, as well as Paul, as we are told,

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess 2:8)

It is indeed the Trump of God that initiates both the Rapture, and the beginning of the Day of the Lord's Wrath upon the earth, at the same time. Just as Noah was placed into the ark just before the rain fell, just as Lot was forced out of the city just before it's judgement, so shall the church be pulled out from within the Tribulation just before the Lord's wrath. His pattern is continuous and perfect.

endof:
who is gathered before the destruction? ALL who will be saved (jew and gentile = New Covenant election), or do you then have a literal 1,000 year reign occuring after The Day of The Lord (sorry...i've lost track of who believes what).

since the 70 weeks have been fulfilled, there is no more dealing with sin for ANYONE after His Second Advent. no need for any more temporal anything.

that 70th week determines what we believe, and is tied to the coming deception.

Jesus was either certain when He said IT IS FINISHED or He wasn't.

it's all right here in Hebrews 9. right up to the Second Advent and The Judgment....no earthly Reign in an earthly Temple in earthly Jerusalem for anyone.

its just not in there. will God have His Plan reversed? did Jesus not Fulfill all Righteousness?

Hebrews 9
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,e then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctifyf for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify ourg conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h 16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

and:

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

surely, Peter the Apostle to the circumcision would have mentioned a long reign on this earth for the jews under some form of Mosaic Law? NOT A WORD ANYWHERE. EVER.

 

[VW]

What part did a the righteous Lamb of God have with the sin and sinners of an unrighteous world of evil that was lost, blinded by the god of this world and condemned to hell? (Jn 1:29, 3:17, Lk 19:10, Rom 11:26, 1Tim 1:15, 2Cor 4:4, 5:18,19)

Well, they were sinners, and knew it, and so He saved them.

 

[lecoop]

hmmmm....

who are these being killed on earth while Jesus and the other saints are in Heaven?

oh ya! i guess those in Heaven are the lucky gentiles who happened to be looking up into the sky at the right moment, and the saints being killed on earth are the jews who weren't looking? isn't that how you had it? how does it work again?

You cannot just come up with wild imaginations. We must believe what is WRITTEN. Much of the church of Jesus Christ will be LEFT BEHIND. I suspect you will be one of them. WHY will some be left behind?

It is written, "holiness without which NO MAN will see the Lord." There are many believers that are coning God, living a life of sin, and not repenting. They cannot possibly be taken up in the rapture, for those taken up will SEE HIM.

He is coming for those that "LOOK FOR HIM." There are many believers that DON'T WANT Him to come now, because they are loving their life too much: they have a love for the world. They don't qualify for the rapture. The truth is, those of the bride may be SLEEPING at the time, but in their heart they are looking for Him and LONGING for Him. They will be caught up, even when asleep. Did you never read the parable of the virgins?

Revelation 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servantsc and their brothersd should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Do you have ANY IDEA who these are? They are CHURCH AGE martyrs. And they are told that they must wait for the FINAL church age martyr (killed as they had been - as church age martyrs). So how long must they wait? Of course until the LAST martyr of the church age, which will END at the rapture of the church. Stephen was one of the first in this group. Those that Paul put to death were there with Stephen. if you only knew, in John's chronology, the rapture is the NEXT EVENT, after he tells us of these martyrs.

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slavee and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

These are the SIGNS of the start of the Day of the Lord. If you read Joel 2 and Isaiah 2, these signs at the 6th seal are the final fulfillment of those two prophecies. This shows us that at this point in John's narrative, the Day of the Lord is just about to begin. But, WHAT CAUSED THAT WORDWIDE EARTHQUAKE?

what?? 12-17 sounds like endofallfears' study of the cosmic signs and Second Advent....huh?

how come there are "saints" on earth called "fellow servants and brothers"? are they the 144,000? who are they?

and who are these deep into the tribulation? unlucky jews who weren't looking up? if its the 144,000 how come they have faith in Jesus?

These are Jews still blinded - unable to recognize that Jesus was their Messiah. But they KNOW the scriptures, and they recognize the signs of the day of the Lord, called here the Day of His Wrath. They KNOW His wrath is about to be poured out. They are NOT the 144,000. There is not one hint that they are. What we do know is that they are SCARED. And rightly so, for they know the Day of the Lord is upon them.

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The woman is to represent the Jews and descendants of Jacob. The devil has tried time and again to wipe them off the face of the earth. But WHO are the "remnant of her seed?" And why "remnant?" It is very simple: the "seed" of Israel are Christians, because we are grafted in. Remnant because the "main load" went out previously with the rapture.

Revelation 13:10
If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

This is specifically written to those that MISSED the rapture of the church, and were LEFT BEHIND. Some of these were not born again until after the rapture, but others were born again and MISSED the rapture. Millions will turn to God when they see that they missed the rapture of the church. It will be a HARD time: I am convinced that there will be new kinds of torture, trying to BREAK Christians, trying to get them to DENY Christ and take the mark. How much better to ESCAPE all these things and go out with the rapture.

Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

How much better to go up in the rapture!!

(btw: in your theory is the Holy Spirit the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2? and He leaves the earth at the "rapture" doesn't He?....if so, how did those "saints" have faith in Jesus, especially with the 'gentile church" missing)

The Holy Spirit as the anointing on the church is the restrainer. When the church is gone, suddenly there is no one left with His anointing. Did the Old Covenant people have "faith?" Of course they did, and without the Holy Spirit as we know Him, INSIDE us and IF we are anointed, filled with His Spirit. In the old covenant, ONLY the prophet, priest and king were anointed. But we know that the Holy Spirit is EVERYWHERE. He is the power that holds everything together.

also: PLEASE SHOW ME ONE SINGLE VERSE where ANYONE says anything remotely like..."hey! where did all the Gentile Christians go?...this must be the rapture"

Actually, God leaves that up to our imagination. But USE yours: if perhaps 1/3 of earth's population suddenly disappears, what will this do to those left behind?

~ actually, i'm being to have my suspicions about anybody still teaching this stuff, and with as much vigour as some....curiouser and curiouser.

NO NEED to be curious: God will have people teaching the TRUTH right up until the end. Now it is the church; then it will be the 144,000, then it will be the Two Witnesses, then it will be angels - so God will always have someone teaching the TRUTH.


Coop

 

[zone]

No I am not a freemason. I have never laid brick or stone and if I did, I wouldn't do it for free. So if I do decide to do masonry work in the future, it won't be for free, you can count on that. lol

But what is interesting is the message that Christ had for the church of Thyatira in (Rev 2:18-29), verse 26-28...

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.

What do you think of that 'I WILL GIVE HIM THE MORNING STAR.' And, I might as well throw in (2Pt 1:19-21)...

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and THE DAY STAR arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

What the heck, one more passage won't hurt (Rev 22:16,17)...

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I don't know, it must be just me, but some scholars have implied that there is a strong possibility that when Christ comes back for the church (His bride), He come as the bright and morning star and at the same time the day star arises in the heart of the believer (who comes with Him and those still alive upon the earth) to meet the Lord in the air. But, that's just some scholars and what do they know anyways, They're just a bunch of knuckle heads that believes in the rapture and is part of the Babylonian system that takes people to hell.

make this work for us with pretrib rapture and Jesus reversing His Work to reign in a Temple made with hands please.

make this something other than His election reigning with Him now, and His Second Advent in Judgment.

show me where the 70th Week was not fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

without that 70th week blasphemously severed from His Finished Work you have ZERO (including no forgiveness for your sins).

where's your 7 years?
where's your rapture?
where's the renewed Mosaic System for jews to "get right with God"

disgraceful.

 

[wakeup]

1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord

NOT ALL WILL BE CAUGHT UP MY FRIEND UNLESS YOU BELONG TO THE 144000.
TWO IN THE FIELD, ONE TAKEN ONE LEFT ETC.( 144000, FIRST FRUITS )
SORRY, BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.

 

[wakeup]

1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord

DONT EXSPECT TO BE CAUGHT UP UNLESS YOU BELONG TO
THE 144000 FIRST FRUITS FOLD.
TWO IN THE FIELD, ONE TAKEN AND ONE LEFT ETC.??

 

[zone]

You cannot just come up with wild imaginations. We must believe what is WRITTEN. Much of the church of Jesus Christ will be LEFT BEHIND. I suspect you will be one of them. WHY will some be left behind?

It is written, "holiness without which NO MAN will see the Lord." There are many believers that are coning God, living a life of sin, and not repenting. They cannot possibly be taken up in the rapture, for those taken up will SEE HIM.

your pretrib rapture is a sickening hoax on Christians and you will be ashamed.

He is coming for those that "LOOK FOR HIM." There are many believers that DON'T WANT Him to come now, because they are loving their life too much: they have a love for the world. They don't qualify for the rapture. The truth is, those of the bride may be SLEEPING at the time, but in their heart they are looking for Him and LONGING for Him. They will be caught up, even when asleep. Did you never read the parable of the virgins?

this old horse is really tired coop. why do you people continue to teach lies when you know the warning of Rev 22?

Do you have ANY IDEA who these are? They are CHURCH AGE martyrs. And they are told that they must wait for the FINAL church age martyr (killed as they had been - as church age martyrs). So how long must they wait? Of course until the LAST martyr of the church age, which will END at the rapture of the church. Stephen was one of the first in this group.?

church age?
old Scofield really did a number on Christianity didn't he. but he had help.

what comes after the "Church Age" coop?
back to jews slaughtering animals to please God? while gentiles are in heaven?

or is that that little twist where the "millennial sacrifices" brought to Old Jerusalem by flesh men are actually just praise? and Jesus and the gentile church are in spirit bodies...? tell me again how it works.

1 Corinthians 15:50
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

These are Jews still blinded - unable to recognize that Jesus was their Messiah. But they KNOW the scriptures, and they recognize the signs of the day of the Lord, called here the Day of His Wrath. They KNOW His wrath is about to be poured out. They are NOT the 144,000. There is not one hint that they are. What we do know is that they are SCARED. And rightly so, for they know the Day of the Lord is upon them.

huh?
you're quite the story teller.
or did you get this from the woman who got the prophecy directly from "Jesus"?

where are the saints, coop? during this part where the 144,00 are mentioned.
where are they? (careful....i already showed you there are saints ON EARTH being killed....were they left behind? why are they called saints then? why is God hearing their prayers if they're in Heaven after "the rapture"? why is Jesus encouraging them to persevere if they are raptured? or if he left them behind because they weren't ready why does He care about them at all?

The woman is to represent the Jews and descendants of Jacob. The devil has tried time and again to wipe them off the face of the earth. But WHO are the "remnant of her seed?" And why "remnant?" It is very simple: the "seed" of Israel are Christians, because we are grafted in. Remnant because the "main load" went out previously with the rapture.

the "main load" went out?

where does it say ANYWHERE that a "main load" disappears? please show me ONE SINGLE VERSE where people say "WHAT? where did all the Christians go"? or that any writer even hints at it.

wouldn't that be the biggest news of all? shouldn't that be found SOMEWHERE in Scripture?

so, you have the "main load" of the remnant raptured (who apparently are gentile christians since its the gentile church that gets raptured), though Paul and Peter and The Lord call the jews who receive mercy THE REMNANT.

so....who is the remnant? gentiles or jews? and which is the main load that disappears? you have the woman being jews, then they are the remnant, and christians, and apparently that's "us" since we are grafted in....

are you a British-Israelite? of the ten Lost tribes? not quite getting how you are a jewish remnant, a gentile, and part of the main load that gets raptured because you're so holy and you happened to look up at the right time.

you'll have to clarify (actually don't bother...its' a mess)

This is specifically written to those that MISSED the rapture of the church, and were LEFT BEHIND. Some of these were not born again until after the rapture, but others were born again and MISSED the rapture. Millions will turn to God when they see that they missed the rapture of the church. It will be a HARD time: I am convinced that there will be new kinds of torture, trying to BREAK Christians, trying to get them to DENY Christ and take the mark. How much better to ESCAPE all these things and go out with the rapture.

ummm....
how does one get "born again' after the rapture?
could you show me that please?

didn't The Holy Spirit leave the earth with the church, is He the Restrainer?

please show me ANYWHERE...ONE VERSE...a type...a shadow, a hint, an allusion...ANYTHING that says the world is shocked at the disappearance of millions of people, and they repent.

God sends plagues and men don't repent. COME ON COOP. give it up. it's horrible theology and its giving Christianity a black eye. just stop.

The Holy Spirit as the anointing on the church is the restrainer. When the church is gone, suddenly there is no one left with His anointing. Did the Old Covenant people have "faith?" Of course they did, and without the Holy Spirit as we know Him, INSIDE us and IF we are anointed, filled with His Spirit. In the old covenant, ONLY the prophet, priest and king were anointed. But we know that the Holy Spirit is EVERYWHERE. He is the power that holds everything together.

wow.
ok. so, you say The Holy Spirit IS The Restrainer, and the annointed gentile remnant (jews?) main load leaves earth and takes the Holy Spirit with them, inside them.

but He does remain....and does what exactly?

who preaches the Gospel to those who were left behind?

what are you going to do with those saints on earth in Rev 12, 13, 14 etc? who are they coop?

there is no Divine Article attached to the "he" in 2 Thessalonians, so the "he" who restrains is not the Godhead....sorry start over. or keeping making stuff up and blaspheming)

Actually, God leaves that up to our imagination. But USE yours: if perhaps 1/3 of earth's population suddenly disappears, what will this do to those left behind?

oh my.
i don't think i'll plumb the depths of your imagination for biblical Truth

NO NEED to be curious: God will have people teaching the TRUTH right up until the end. Now it is the church; then it will be the 144,000, then it will be the Two Witnesses, then it will be angels - so God will always have someone teaching the TRUTH
Coop

fascinating.
maybe you should reconsider your church.

 

[endofallfears]

Dream dream dream, dream........(Everly Brothers)

There are many trumps sounded in the bible. Just at the Feast of Trumpets there are many trumpets sounded. But the "last trump" at the rapture of the church will come about 7 years BEFORE the coming on the white horse. And there will be other trumpets sounded AFTER Paul's last trumpet - showing us that it is the last of a SERIES. In fact, ALL SEVEN of John's series in Revelation will be sounded AFTER the rapture. Believe it, for it is written.

Coop

What Paul talks about is not a trump sounded by men or angels, but the "Trump of God", a singularly specific trumpet sounded by God Himself.

The prophecy of Zechariah concerning the abomination of desolation is referenced by Christ Himself in Mt 24, making this prophecy applicable to end-time prophecy. Paul, who was certainly familiar of the history of Antiachus Epiphanies and the prophecy of Zechariah understood the reference when he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit concerning "the Trump of God."

If you could take a look at my previous post concerning the 6th seal, and address why the sign of the day of God's Wrath upon the earth takes place at that point, and not prior to the 1st seal.

 

[Red33]

Well, they were sinners, and knew it, and so He saved them.

And how did they hear about the Lamb of God, through the preaching of the gospel from the ones that God sent into all the world. You can't be sent unless you are available to go. The prophet Isaiah heard the call and responded in this manner...

Is 6:8,9a

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people,

Rom 10:14,15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Put them together and you can't help but hear what the Spirit of God has said and is saying in these passages.

 

[Red33]

make this work for us with pretrib rapture and Jesus reversing His Work to reign in a Temple made with hands please.

make this something other than His election reigning with Him now, and His Second Advent in Judgment.

show me where the 70th Week was not fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

without that 70th week blasphemously severed from His Finished Work you have ZERO (including no forgiveness for your sins).

where's your 7 years?
where's your rapture?
where's the renewed Mosaic System for jews to "get right with God"

disgraceful.

Get (Rev 20:3) right first. I know that you can't get that right and it is a stumbling block to you. You avoid it by going off in some tangent and you never put it in the right place. Nothing works when you place Satan being bound at the ascension. A (10) year old can follow the progression but you have so much information in your head that it makes you unbalanced and way off base. You have some kind of axe to grind and you are wrestling with it.

 

[wakeup]

endof:
who is gathered before the destruction? ALL who will be saved (jew and gentile = New Covenant election), or do you then have a literal 1,000 year reign occuring after The Day of The Lord (sorry...i've lost track of who believes what).

since the 70 weeks have been fulfilled, there is no more dealing with sin for ANYONE after His Second Advent. no need for any more temporal anything.

that 70th week determines what we believe, and is tied to the coming deception.

Jesus was either certain when He said IT IS FINISHED or He wasn't.

it's all right here in Hebrews 9. right up to the Second Advent and The Judgment....no earthly Reign in an earthly Temple in earthly Jerusalem for anyone.

its just not in there. will God have His Plan reversed? did Jesus not Fulfill all Righteousness?

Hebrews 9
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,e then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctifyf for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify ourg conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h 16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

and:

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

surely, Peter the Apostle to the circumcision would have mentioned a long reign on this earth for the jews under some form of Mosaic Law? NOT A WORD ANYWHERE. EVER.

DEAR ZONE.
YOU SEEM TO BE BOGGED DOWN WITH THIS 70WK.
THE 70WK IN DANIEL IS FULFILLED , GONE, PAST, HISTORY.
FROM THE DAY THAT THE ANGEL MET DANIEL TO THE COMM.TO
REBUILD THE TEMPLE= 1 WK
FROM THE COMM. TO REBUILD THE TEMPLE TO THE CRUCIFIXION= 62 WK. FROM THE CRUCIFIXION TO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE BY THE ROMANS = 7WK. TOTAL70WK. IT HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH FUTURE PLANS.
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN TO US THE BOOK OF REV.FROM
CH.1------CH. 22 IN THE CONDENSE VERSION ???
LETS GO AHEAD,FORWARD.

regards
wakeup

 

[VW]

And how did they hear about the Lamb of God, through the preaching of the gospel from the ones that God sent into all the world. You can't be sent unless you are available to go. The prophet Isaiah heard the call and responded in this manner...

Is 6:8,9a

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people,

Rom 10:14,15
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Put them together and you can't help but hear what the Spirit of God has said and is saying in these passages.

And who sent them?

 

[Red33]

And who sent them?

The same one that called them to go and preach. Do you hear the voice of God that has called us to and preach? Are you willing to go as the prophet Isaiah was when he sad, 'Here am I send me'?

 

[VW]

The same one that called them to go and preach. Do you hear the voice of God that has called us to and preach? Are you willing to go as the prophet Isaiah was when he sad, 'Here am I send me'?

And who preaches through them?

Not only willing, I do go and preach, and teach and prophecy. And I suffer persecution for doing so.

And I give all the glory to God, who makes all things possible through Jesus Christ.

Do you hear the voice of God, in your heart?

I do.

 

[endofallfears]

endof:
who is gathered before the destruction? ALL who will be saved (jew and gentile = New Covenant election), or do you then have a literal 1,000 year reign occuring after The Day of The Lord (sorry...i've lost track of who believes what).

since the 70 weeks have been fulfilled, there is no more dealing with sin for ANYONE after His Second Advent. no need for any more temporal anything.

that 70th week determines what we believe, and is tied to the coming deception.

Jesus was either certain when He said IT IS FINISHED or He wasn't.

it's all right here in Hebrews 9. right up to the Second Advent and The Judgment....no earthly Reign in an earthly Temple in earthly Jerusalem for anyone.

its just not in there. will God have His Plan reversed? did Jesus not Fulfill all Righteousness?

Hebrews 9
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,e then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctifyf for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify ourg conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.h 16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

and:

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

surely, Peter the Apostle to the circumcision would have mentioned a long reign on this earth for the jews under some form of Mosaic Law? NOT A WORD ANYWHERE. EVER.

Hi, Zone,

All very good questions, and I don't want to be cavalier in addressing them. I'll start with this.

Scripture talks about the kingdom of God and the reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. What needs to be defined is how this kingdom is defined in light of the work on the cross, temporal rule, spiritual rule, citizenship, and end-time prophecy.

I will offer that no matter what type of rulership is discussed, God is indeed Absolute Sovereign of all things. I believe there is plenty of Scripture to support that. I will also offer that God allows others, whether good or evil, spiritual or temporal, limited rulership that will ultimately leads to the fulfillment of His divine will. I believe there is plenty of Scripture to support that as well.

What I will be addressing first is, what parameters were established on the Kingdom of God by the work of Christ.

I'll get on it.

 

[HeavenwithinYOU]

Amen...LAST I checked believers are delivered up to die at the time of the Mark of the Beast.

I COME IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.. please watch my testimony --- > YouTube - Jesus Christ Testimony, Finding Jesus Christ, Jesus loves you.

 

[wakeup]

I believe in the post trib. Why would God let his children suffer from the plight of the Antichrist. And also the judgements. The Bible says that He doesn't want his children to suffer. I believe that we will ascend to meet our Lord Jesus before tribulation.
I really can't wait for the Rapture, although all of my friends think I'm crazy for believing in it. Sometimes we get into lengthy discusions about it. But they still think I'm crazy.

if you really believe in jesus why dont you believe his words??/
FOR HE SAID, IN MAT. 24:29. QU0TE, IMMEDIATELY==AFTER===
THE TRIBULATION???
BUT YOU SAY NO, NOT AFTER LORD YOUR ARE WRONG,MY
CHURCH ALWAYS HAVE TAUGHT ME AFTER THE TRIB.=
AND I HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT MY CHURH HAS TAUGHT ME.
I AM A FAITHFUL CHURH GOER. OK YOUR CHOICE.