The Keys to the Kingdom
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Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
I see teaching but I do not see water baptism. Where is water in these verses?
1 Cor 1: 14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Paul's priority was not to baptize but to preach the gospel. Teaching and preaching to make disciples not to water baptize.
Could it be that our thinking on the great commission has been colored by church dogma? I believe believers should get water baptized but I do not believe that most understand why they are being baptized.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
I see teaching but I do not see water baptism. Where is water in these verses?
1 Cor 1: 14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Paul's priority was not to baptize but to preach the gospel. Teaching and preaching to make disciples not to water baptize.
Could it be that our thinking on the great commission has been colored by church dogma? I believe believers should get water baptized but I do not believe that most understand why they are being baptized.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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E
Look at the verse again, Lets try a different version. Your seems to be missing a few words.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
There first goal of the church is to make disciples. Give the gospel and get people saved
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This is not holy spirit baptism, And he is telling THEM to baptize them, This is water baptism, The first command given to new believers, we see this all through acts.. where people first repented, recieved the spirit. Then got water baptized.
Then he gives the second mission of the church.
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”[d]Amen.
To disciple them, (help bring them to spiritual maturity) as he discipled them.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
There first goal of the church is to make disciples. Give the gospel and get people saved
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This is not holy spirit baptism, And he is telling THEM to baptize them, This is water baptism, The first command given to new believers, we see this all through acts.. where people first repented, recieved the spirit. Then got water baptized.
Then he gives the second mission of the church.
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”[d]Amen.
To disciple them, (help bring them to spiritual maturity) as he discipled them.
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And what is the spiritual meaning of water baptism when we apply the prescription in 2 Corinthians 4
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Where do we find the foundation of doctrine that was spoken of in John 3:25-26.?
Why were they challenged by the fact that Jesus was baptizing insisting it must be a Levite. It sets the context as the gospel key as that in which the gates of hell could never prevail against. . If we ignore the old testemtment foundation much can be lost, I believe.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Where do we find the foundation of doctrine that was spoken of in John 3:25-26.?
Why were they challenged by the fact that Jesus was baptizing insisting it must be a Levite. It sets the context as the gospel key as that in which the gates of hell could never prevail against. . If we ignore the old testemtment foundation much can be lost, I believe.
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John 3:25-26
I did not say that it was Holy Spirit baptism although the same Greek word is used here as in the places where Holy Spirit baptism does take place. I am suggesting that the intent of the passage of discipling the nations is teaching them the word of God. Teaching them of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This was the reason God selected Israel to be His chosen people. They were to proclaim Jehovah God to all the nations of the world.
We are witnesses, we are to testify and to teach the world of Christ and His power to save them from sin. Ours is not a commission to water baptize.
For those who believe in Christ and are saved they may receive water baptism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We are witnesses, we are to testify and to teach the world of Christ and His power to save them from sin. Ours is not a commission to water baptize.
For those who believe in Christ and are saved they may receive water baptism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Because God did not command water baptism. God allows water baptism for those who are born again. Acts 8:36-37
As believers we are given the ability to receive communion, water baptism and if we have the opportunity foot washing. All are to be desired but none effect one's salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
As believers we are given the ability to receive communion, water baptism and if we have the opportunity foot washing. All are to be desired but none effect one's salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Sorry bro. But this is bad logic. Just because baptism is not required does not mean it was never commanded.
Yes, it does not affect salvation, But niether does assembling ourselves together, Yet Jesus commanded it. He also commanded us to love, yet that will not affect our salvation. He gave many commands.. We should do them all.
Jesus did not say you may do this often, He said do it..
This seems like one of those arguments one uses to defeat remission of sin by immersion (water) yet does not make any sense.
Yes, it does not affect salvation, But niether does assembling ourselves together, Yet Jesus commanded it. He also commanded us to love, yet that will not affect our salvation. He gave many commands.. We should do them all.
Jesus did not say you may do this often, He said do it..
This seems like one of those arguments one uses to defeat remission of sin by immersion (water) yet does not make any sense.
E
I think peter prety much commanded those who recieved remission of sin to be baptized. And Jesus commanded them to baptize new disciples.
I think it is dangerous to say something is not a command, when it is obvious it is. It feeds people that claim we believe we are free to do whatever we want, and have no obligation to follow Gods commands.
I think it is dangerous to say something is not a command, when it is obvious it is. It feeds people that claim we believe we are free to do whatever we want, and have no obligation to follow Gods commands.
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Consequences are different for believers verses non-believers.
We have a young man at church that is going to receive water baptism on Sunday. He is very excited about his upcoming baptism. He has been given bible training on water baptism and knows that he is no more saved after baptism than he is right now.
The church has made water baptism much more significant than it deserves. We receive water baptism to signify our obedience to and our wish to identify with our Savior.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We have a young man at church that is going to receive water baptism on Sunday. He is very excited about his upcoming baptism. He has been given bible training on water baptism and knows that he is no more saved after baptism than he is right now.
The church has made water baptism much more significant than it deserves. We receive water baptism to signify our obedience to and our wish to identify with our Savior.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
I am not saying otherwise
Once again
Jesus said not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together
He said to love one another, Even your enemy
He said to take his body and flesh (communion) often in remembrance of him
He said to go make disciples and baptize them
Baptism is no more or less important than any other command. It blesses those who do it. And those who witness it (if done as it was intended) and for the many who do not do it, I have seen suffer and not be blessed, because of fear. Just like those who do nto go to church suffer. And those who do not love suffer. And those who do not take regular communion, being reminded of their first love, I have even seen them suffer
Non of these save anyone. But if not done, people do suffer consequences.
Once again
Jesus said not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together
He said to love one another, Even your enemy
He said to take his body and flesh (communion) often in remembrance of him
He said to go make disciples and baptize them
Baptism is no more or less important than any other command. It blesses those who do it. And those who witness it (if done as it was intended) and for the many who do not do it, I have seen suffer and not be blessed, because of fear. Just like those who do nto go to church suffer. And those who do not love suffer. And those who do not take regular communion, being reminded of their first love, I have even seen them suffer
Non of these save anyone. But if not done, people do suffer consequences.
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You will come across more people who will hear and respond to the full gospel of salvation in the real world.
The Bible "Discussion" Forum is not about an exchange of Bible study and doctrines, nor of being open to learning.
I responded to the gospel out on a public road in front of a local shopping centre.
I was Roman Catholic at the time and was challenged by the power of the testimonies pinned up for reading.
I was convicted eventually and underwent water baptism and later received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence
of speaking in a new tongue. Then came immediately the first of many healings, miracles and blessings.
God calls people to himself who have a contrite and humble heart and are willing to hear and believe the word of God.
A person needs to let go of all their previous life and what they have invested in to submit to the true gospel.
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me,
let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Matthew 8:
7 Yet all that was gain to me--for Christ's sake I have reckoned it loss.
8 Nay, I even reckon all things as pure loss because of the priceless privilege of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. And for His sake I have suffered the loss of everything, and reckon it all as mere refuse, in order that I may win Christ and be found in union with Him,
Philippians 3: (Weymouth)
* refuse, dung = what is thrown to the dogs …
The Bible "Discussion" Forum is not about an exchange of Bible study and doctrines, nor of being open to learning.
I responded to the gospel out on a public road in front of a local shopping centre.
I was Roman Catholic at the time and was challenged by the power of the testimonies pinned up for reading.
I was convicted eventually and underwent water baptism and later received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence
of speaking in a new tongue. Then came immediately the first of many healings, miracles and blessings.
God calls people to himself who have a contrite and humble heart and are willing to hear and believe the word of God.
A person needs to let go of all their previous life and what they have invested in to submit to the true gospel.
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me,
let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Matthew 8:
7 Yet all that was gain to me--for Christ's sake I have reckoned it loss.
8 Nay, I even reckon all things as pure loss because of the priceless privilege of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. And for His sake I have suffered the loss of everything, and reckon it all as mere refuse, in order that I may win Christ and be found in union with Him,
Philippians 3: (Weymouth)
* refuse, dung = what is thrown to the dogs …
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