Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

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FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#441
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#441
Guojing said:
Okay, you believe that water baptism is not necessary for salvation under John the Baptist.
Click to expand...
Hi Guojing,

The concept you put forward, of progressive revelation is true.
Adam and Eve did not know the law, Jesus, church etc. so the revelation given since then to now has
added new aspects to the existing relationship with God.

Dispensations equally have existed, as we are now the temples of the Holy Spirit, which has replaced
the temple in Jerusalem. Our fellowship with God is now one to one, rather than mediated through
ceremony and sacrifice, and belonging to Israel.

What often has confused the issue has been the idea of belonging, going from unsaved to saved, and
projecting this into every biblical situation. It is apparent that God is the judge of this, and those who
are His are known to Him as the Lord said to Elijah

18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel-all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal
and all whose mouths have not kissed him.
1 Kings 19
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#442
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#442
FollowHisSteps said:
Hi Guojing,

The concept you put forward, of progressive revelation is true.
Adam and Eve did not know the law, Jesus, church etc. so the revelation given since then to now has
added new aspects to the existing relationship with God.

Dispensations equally have existed, as we are now the temples of the Holy Spirit, which has replaced
the temple in Jerusalem. Our fellowship with God is now one to one, rather than mediated through
ceremony and sacrifice, and belonging to Israel.

What often has confused the issue has been the idea of belonging, going from unsaved to saved, and
projecting this into every biblical situation. It is apparent that God is the judge of this, and those who
are His are known to Him as the Lord said to Elijah

18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel-all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal
and all whose mouths have not kissed him.
1 Kings 19
Click to expand...
Yep, anyone who recognize that there was a need for lamb sacrifice in the past, but now it is no longer needed because Jesus is the final sacrifice, is applying the concept of progressive revelation.

I think the difficulty is because our bibles have an OT, followed by a blank page, and then the NT where the words of Jesus are all in red. Hence many of us have grown up accepting that all the NT are instructions to us, while the OT are instructions to the Jews.

Thus, it is understandable why many will find it difficult to accept that Gentiles do not appear in the body of Christ, until the Apostle Paul was saved by God, to bring the Gospel specifically to the Gentiles.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#444
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#444
PS said:
No.
Click to expand...
Then you are saying water baptism is necessary for salvation. Make up your mind.

Do you understand the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#445
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#445
Guojing said:
Then you are saying water baptism is necessary for salvation. Make up your mind.

Do you understand the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition?
Click to expand...
We follow Jesus 24 hours a day in how we live our life.
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#446
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#446
Guojing said:
Yep, anyone who recognize that there was a need for lamb sacrifice in the past, but now it is no longer needed because Jesus is the final sacrifice, is applying the concept of progressive revelation.

I think the difficulty is because our bibles have an OT, followed by a blank page, and then the NT where the words of Jesus are all in red. Hence many of us have grown up accepting that all the NT are instructions to us, while the OT are instructions to the Jews.

Thus, it is understandable why many will find it difficult to accept that Gentiles do not appear in the body of Christ, until the Apostle Paul was saved by God, to bring the Gospel specifically to the Gentiles.
Click to expand...
There is always areas in Christ where we need to grow. Paul actually witnessed always first to the Jews in an
area, by going to the synagogue then on to the gentiles. So though his heart was for gentiles, he preached to all.

What we often miss, is how big the OT is, and how much more involved and complex the stories are, linked in
with history and different social and relationship situations. To a degree the NT is simpler and more focused
on two peoples ministries, Jesus and Paul. It is also difficult to marry the idea of Jesus fulfilling the law, and
in the Spirit we also by walking in love fulfilling this.

The message that it is our hearts that need purifying is missed in much of the preaching I hear. How we love
speak, live from our hearts is a hard concept, that in our hearts dwells the Holy Spirit as a Holy temple of
the Most High. We tend to have quick focused studies 1hr long at most, and each one touches on one aspect
of the gospel. But the gospel is truly vast, involved, dynamic, and our view changes as God works in our hearts.

It is little wonder people end up finding a place of rest and try and stay there.
This forum is a classic example of what risks there are in just opening up and sharing a love of Jesus.
Rather than voices of amen, the armed soldiers appear to try and make sure you are "right" rather than engage
in this wonderful walk Jesus has called us to go with Him on.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#447
#447
Guojing said:
Perhaps the KJV may be difficult for some to understand. Here are other translations

New International Version
(All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus' words, acknowledged that God's way was right, because they had been baptized by John.

Young's Literal Translation
And all the people having heard, and the tax-gatherers, declared God righteous, having been baptized with the baptism of John,

New Living Translation
When they heard this, all the people—even the tax collectors—agreed that God’s way was right, for they had been baptized by John.

Read the scripture and interpret what it plainly says. If you refuse to and prefer to stick to your own preconceived beliefs about the requirements to be justified under the Gospel of the Kingdom, that is your choice. You are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Click to expand...
Non of those passages say anyone was sav d by water baptism

Just because people were baptized does not mean it saved them. Chances are many were baptized and never knew god.

Why are you insisting they were saved by baptism and not grace?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#448
#448
Guojing said:
Then you are saying water baptism is necessary for salvation. Make up your mind.

Do you understand the difference between a necessary condition and a sufficient condition?
Click to expand...
Ironic.

Thats what your saying

And your question? For salvation it does not matter, Either would make salvation by by works, NOT by Grace
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#449
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#449
eternally-gratefull said:
Ironic.

Thats what your saying

And your question? For salvation it does not matter, Either would make salvation by by works, NOT by Grace
Click to expand...
Amazing that you still don't understand progressive revelation. That is one benefit of rightly dividing the word. We are in the Gospel of Grace now, because Jesus saved Paul and made him our apostle.

But the Jews in the 4 Gospels were under the Gospel of the Kingdom, where water baptism is necessary to show your faith.

People who insist that the entire NT is for us, run into problem of interpreting verses like Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and of course Luke 7:29-30.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#450
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#450
eternally-gratefull said:
Non of those passages say anyone was sav d by water baptism

Just because people were baptized does not mean it saved them. Chances are many were baptized and never knew god.

Why are you insisting they were saved by baptism and not grace?
Click to expand...
I am saying they were saved by putting their faith in what the Lord commanded them to do for the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is to believe Jesus is their promised Messiah and the Son of God AND be water baptized.

It is still by grace of God, since water baptism does not remove any sin, as I have mentioned to you earlier.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#451
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#451
Guojing said:
Once you can accept that not all scripture is written TO you, there is no conflict. If you insist everything is for your instruction then yes, conflicts are plenty.

Mark 16:16 is a perfect example of this. Is water baptism required for salvation? Who is it written to?
Click to expand...
Been walking with Jesus since 1977.
His word has,up to this point,been recieved to me.
I don't see written dogma. I listen with my spirit.
The word of God,is to me. Written to me.
For many years i hear " ...and so Paul is saying...." Or ".....and so Peter is saying...."
I resist that.
I see it as both mental and spiritual. God speaking to me. Not Paul,not John,not Peter.

My studies to day was john 12 to 14
I can not frame that as off limits due to Jesus not identifying with me,or being irrelevant.
To me it is awesome,awesome life. A river flooding my spirit with life.

We are night and day apart
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#452
#452
Guojing said:
Amazing that you still don't understand progressive revelation. That is one benefit of rightly dividing the word. We are in the Gospel of Grace now, because Jesus saved Paul and made him our apostle.

But the Jews in the 4 Gospels were under the Gospel of the Kingdom, where water baptism is necessary to show your faith.

People who insist that the entire NT is for us, run into problem of interpreting verses like Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and of course Luke 7:29-30.
Click to expand...
Progressive revelation does not excuse your different ways to heaven nonsense.

I do understand it. But I also understand what the gospel is

Something I fear you do not.

And no we do not run into problems interpreting those passages. We interpret them quite well. And they DO NOT SAY baptism is REQUIRED to be saved.

It is those who say THEY Do say these things who have the problem!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#453
#453
Guojing said:
I am saying they were saved by putting their faith in what the Lord commanded them to do for the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is to believe Jesus is their promised Messiah and the Son of God AND be water baptized.

It is still by grace of God, since water baptism does not remove any sin, as I have mentioned to you earlier.
Click to expand...
Yet your insisting it saved them. It was for them,

See the issue, You are contradicting yourself
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#454
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#454
eternally-gratefull said:
Yet your insisting it saved them. It was for them,

See the issue, You are contradicting yourself
Click to expand...
I don't see where is the contradiction here. Is your reading comprehension that poor?

The Jews in the 4 gospels were under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

We Gentiles are under the Gospel of Grace, with different requirements to show faith.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#456
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#456
Absolutely said:
Been walking with Jesus since 1977.
His word has,up to this point,been recieved to me.
I don't see written dogma. I listen with my spirit.
The word of God,is to me. Written to me.
For many years i hear " ...and so Paul is saying...." Or ".....and so Peter is saying...."
I resist that.
I see it as both mental and spiritual. God speaking to me. Not Paul,not John,not Peter.

My studies to day was john 12 to 14
I can not frame that as off limits due to Jesus not identifying with me,or being irrelevant.
To me it is awesome,awesome life. A river flooding my spirit with life.

We are night and day apart
Click to expand...
Okay, if you want to believe the entire NT is written to you, that is fine.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#457
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#457
May the blessing of God be on all you early birds.
May he strengthen you guys with his power and presence.
Be blessed this day and may he send his angels of protection over you guys and. all family members. Both extended and in laws.
Lord,even bless their animals and friends.

Yes Lord.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#458
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#458
Guojing said:
Okay, if you want to believe the entire NT is written to you, that is fine.
Click to expand...
The Ot also.
One bible
One message
Jesus
It is as if He personally signed it Himself at heavens book store and handed it to me personally
If the bible has a heart,it is the nt

The heartbeat would be 1&2 Samuel
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#459
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#459
Absolutely said:
The Ot also.
One bible
One message
Jesus
It is as if He personally signed it Himself at heavens book store and handed it to me personally
If the bible has a heart,it is the nt

The heartbeat would be 1&2 Samuel
Click to expand...
Well you clearly don't sacrifice a lamb for your sins now...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#460
#460
Guojing said:
I don't see where is the contradiction here. Is your reading comprehension that poor?

The Jews in the 4 gospels were under the Gospel of the Kingdom.

We Gentiles are under the Gospel of Grace, with different requirements to show faith.
Click to expand...
Yes

You just proved me right Thank You

According to you, they had a different gospel then we do.

Thats FALSE!
 
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