Rapture= false teaching

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Feb 14, 2011
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The pretribulation rapture is mostly taught by men and women who want to make a lot of money preaching fear of a coming Antichrist and the latest from the world news headlines according to Bible prophecy for the end times nonsense! They do not interpret the Bible in its own terms, they try to read newspaper headlines into the Bible, and try to suggest Bible prophecy is being fulfilled in exhaustive detail in our own days and times. It is not at all really that clear that this is actually so. Too much futurism and concern with predicting the future according to Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelation is destroying much of fundamentalist Protestant Christianity. These people really do NOT know at all what they are preaching about! They, these pretribulation rapture fanatic people, confuse the sheep, who are only preparing themselves to meet God, to meet Christ, whenever He does come again.

SCOTTH, WHAT IS REALY YOUR BASIC BELIEVE?? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARY
IS THE MOTHER OF GOD?? DO YOU PRAY TO MARY?? IS YOUR CHURCH DECORATED
WITH CROSSES ,PAINTING, AND STATUES OF ALL SAINTS AND ANGELS??
AND PLEASE BE HONEST.
WAKEUP.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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what about it? you say ALL ISRAEL will be saved. regardless. somehow.
and you HAVE to have all that dispensational stuff to make that work.


I don't know what that exactly means when, 'all of Israel will be saved'. I will say this, that all that are looking for the Messiah, when they see Him as He is, they will believe and be saved. Others may not be looking for Him and even when they see Him and reject Him, they will remain in unbelief as their fathers did as a stiffnecked and obstinate people. There is no grace that will be able to save these from their sins and iniquities and they will join their fathers that God was not well pleased with. However, if all the Jews that were dispersed are gathered together unto Israel as a nation, and are looking for the Messiah to come, there is no reason to believe that when Christ comes for the second time to the earth, that they will not see Him and believe. If that is what is meant as 'all Israel will be saved' then so be it.
 
Feb 14, 2011
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DEAR ZONE . EVERY ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS 7YRS?
WHERE CAN I FIND THAT IN THE BIBLE? WHERE DOES IT MENTION 7YRS TRIB.?
I AM VERY CURIOUS. THANK U
PS. I PERCEIVE THAT YOU ARE JEWISH, AND A CHRISTIAN.
DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE TRUE OLIVE BRANCH?
A TRUE OLIVE BRANCHE GRAFTED TO THE TRUE OLIVE TREE WOULD BE MUCH
BETTER, THAN A WILD OLIVE BRANCH GRAFTED TO THE TRUE OLIVE TREE.
DID YOU KNOW THAT. SO KEEP ON SEEKING GOD WITH YOUR HEART,AND PRAY
AND HE WILL OPEN UP THE WHOLE PICTURE,BUT PLEASE DONT RELY ON BOOKS
GOD DID NOT WRITE THOSE BOOKS. USE HIS WORD IF YOU WANT TO SEEK HIM.
GOD BLESS.
WAKEUP.
 
Jul 30, 2010
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what about it? you say ALL ISRAEL will be saved. regardless. somehow.
and you HAVE to have all that dispensational stuff to make that work.


I don't know what that exactly means when, 'all of Israel will be saved'. I will say this, that all that are looking for the Messiah, when they see Him as He is, they will believe and be saved. Others may not be looking for Him and even when they see Him and reject Him, they will remain in unbelief as their fathers did as a stiffnecked and obstinate people. There is no grace that will be able to save these from their sins and iniquities and they will join their fathers that God was not well pleased with. However, if all the Jews that were dispersed are gathered together unto Israel as a nation, and are looking for the Messiah to come, there is no reason to believe that when Christ comes for the second time to the earth, that they will not see Him and believe. If that is what is meant as 'all Israel will be saved' then so be it.
[/QUOTE]Hi Red, you gave a good answer. Israel will only be made up of the remnant...the reserved. Old and current. The new Israel will be made up of these only and all of these will be saved which now makes up the whole house of Israel (to come in)

The whole nation of Israel ruled & taught by Jesus & the Saints will accept truth this time. The rest of the Israelites will be judged by the law after millenium.
Regards
Journey
 
Feb 14, 2011
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and stop changing the subject.

prove your pretrib theory.
then i may buy into the rest.

how come you won't answer these questions:


GOOD ONE . THERE IS NONE.
ALL MADE UP AS THEY GO.

WAKEUP
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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DEAR ZONE . EVERY ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS 7YRS?
WHERE CAN I FIND THAT IN THE BIBLE? WHERE DOES IT MENTION 7YRS TRIB.?
I AM VERY CURIOUS. THANK U
are you a pretribber?
(i've lost track)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
SCOTTH, WHAT IS REALY YOUR BASIC BELIEVE?? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARY
IS THE MOTHER OF GOD?? DO YOU PRAY TO MARY?? IS YOUR CHURCH DECORATED
WITH CROSSES ,PAINTING, AND STATUES OF ALL SAINTS AND ANGELS??
AND PLEASE BE HONEST.
WAKEUP.
not relevent to this thread.
scott's got the NO RAPTURE right so stop deflecting the issue.
wakeup are you a pretrib rapture believer?
are you waiting on a bunch of stuff from Daniel's 70th week?
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
4
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not relevent to this thread.
scott's got the NO RAPTURE right so stop deflecting the issue.
wakeup are you a pretrib rapture believer?
are you waiting on a bunch of stuff from Daniel's 70th week?

NO DEFINATELY NOT A PRE TRIBER. I ALREADY GAVE YOU MY EXPLAINATION OF DANIELS 70 WEEKS AND MY ANSWER IS, IT IS PAST, HISTORY. IT HAPPENED ALREADY.
HAVE YOU GOT ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

REGARDS, WAKEUP
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
what about it? you say ALL ISRAEL will be saved. regardless. somehow.
and you HAVE to have all that dispensational stuff to make that work.


I don't know what that exactly means when, 'all of Israel will be saved'. I will say this, that all that are looking for the Messiah, when they see Him as He is, they will believe and be saved. Others may not be looking for Him and even when they see Him and reject Him, they will remain in unbelief as their fathers did as a stiffnecked and obstinate people. There is no grace that will be able to save these from their sins and iniquities and they will join their fathers that God was not well pleased with. However, if all the Jews that were dispersed are gathered together unto Israel as a nation, and are looking for the Messiah to come, there is no reason to believe that when Christ comes for the second time to the earth, that they will not see Him and believe. If that is what is meant as 'all Israel will be saved' then so be it.
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel

by Steve Wohlberg and Doug Batchelor


All Israel Saved?
Since we've gone this far, we may as well go all the way! Only Jews will be saved. Furthermore, all Jews will be saved! Now after you pick yourself up off the floor, allow us to explain these bold statements.

We all know that we are saved under the new covenant, right? Notice the wording of the new covenant: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." Jeremiah 31:31, emphasis added. And in the book of Hebrews, Paul expands on this concept: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." Hebrews 8:8, 10-12, emphasis added.

The new covenant is made "with the house of Israel"! God never makes a salvation covenant with Gentiles. In fact, nowhere in Scripture do you find any saving covenant made with anyone but Israelites! So if you want to be saved, you must be born again, as a spiritual Jew. This is not to say that all Christians must now be circumcised and sacrifice lambs, but we must have the spiritual equivalent of these things-Jesus, the Lamb of God, and circumcision of the heart.

God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different brand for non-Jews. Everyone is saved the same way under the same program. By grace through faith. Paul used the analogy of an olive tree to explain that all Gentiles who are saved are grafted into the stock of Israel. "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root [supports] thee." Romans 11:17, 18.
The Christian religion is based on a Jewish manual called the Bible. (In light of this fact, it is extremely difficult to understand how any real Christian could be anti-Semitic.) Christianity is not a new religion, but rather the completion of the Jewish faith.

With this truth in mind, we can now better understand what Paul meant when he said, "And so all Israel shall be saved." Romans 11:26. Some have taken this verse to mean that God will ultimately save all literal Jews. If this were true, it would contradict every principle of God's dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture. God is not a racist. In Jesus' eyes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek." Galatians 3:28.

We are saved based on choices we make regarding God's provision, not on national status or physical citizenship. But if when Paul says that "all Israel will be saved" he is speaking of spiritual Israel, and if we understand that we become a "true Jew" only by a choice, then it all makes sense.

The Application to Prophecy
How does all of this apply to prophecy? The greatest book about prophecy, the book of Revelation, talks about Mount Zion, Israel, Jerusalem, the temple, the Euphrates, Babylon, and Armageddon. Thus it is clear that Revelation uses the terminology of the Middle East in its prophecies. Yet what is happening right now all over planet Earth is that sincere Christians are automatically applying these prophecies to literal places in the Middle East and to the modern nation of Jews. Yet once we grasp the New Testament principles brought out in this article, we should be able to see that there is "something wrong with this picture." It is like seeing error messages pop up on our computer screens! The truth is that Revelation centers around Jesus Christ and God's Israel in the Spirit, not the Israel of the flesh!

Never forget that "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3.

Share with others the truth that now "there is neither Jew nor Greek, ... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:28, 29.

Let us not live in the flesh or accept popular, convoluted teachings that focus on an earthly state. Rather, let us live in the Spirit. Like Jacob of old, let us wrestle in prayer and cling to Jesus until by faith we hear Him say, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28. Shalom!


~

cont.....THE NAME ISRAEL...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel

by Steve Wohlberg and Doug Batchelor


....But because the persistent and popular teachings of the day focused on a muscular Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and seat himself on David's throne, the disciples brushed aside Jesus' comments regarding His spiritual kingdom. They tried to make the spiritual prophecies literal, and their expectations were crushed by the cross. They lamented, "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." Luke 24:21, NKJV. Even after His resurrection, the disciples were still clinging to these popular views and hoping for an imminent, literal kingdom. "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1:6.


Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!


The Name "Israel"
It is impossible to clearly understand the subject of Israel apart from a careful study of the Old Testament. The first time the name "Israel" appears in Scripture was when it was spoken to Jacob after his long night of wrestling with a powerful opponent. The heavenly stranger finally said, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."
Genesis 32:28, emphasis added. Thus the name "Israel" was at first a name of heavenly origin applying to Jacob alone. It represented his spiritual victory over sin, through wrestling in prayer and claiming God's grace.

Jacob had 12 sons who later moved into Egypt. The descendants of these sons eventually multiplied into the 12 tribes that were forced into slavery by the Egyptians until the time of Moses. Then God told Pharaoh through Moses, "Israel is my son, even my firstborn. ... Let my son go." Exodus 4:22, 23. Note that here the name "Israel" is expanded to include Jacob's descendants. Therefore, the name "Israel" first applied to a victorious man, then to his people. We shall soon see why this is a very important point.

Israel, God's Son
About 800 B.C., the Lord spoke through the prophet Hosea, saying, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."
Hosea 11:1. Yet by this time the nation of Israel had failed to live up to the spiritual meaning of its own name. This verse in Hosea will explode with tremendous importance in just a moment, when we look at the New Testament.

Approximately 800 years after Hosea's prophecy, "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king." Matthew 2:1. Because Herod was threatened by this new child king, he sent soldiers who "slew all the children that were in Bethlehem." Verse 16. Joseph was warned of the impending crisis in advance. "The angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word." Verse 13. So the holy family arose and "departed into Egypt." Verse 14.

Matthew writes that little Jesus remained in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Verse 15. Notice that Matthew is quoting Hosea 11:1, which originally referred to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt, yet now he declares it "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ! Here Matthew is beginning to reveal a truly shocking principle that he develops throughout his Gospel.

For example, one time after healing a group of people, Jesus modestly "charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Greek for Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets." Matthew 12:16-19, emphasis added. Here the Gospel writer is quoting Isaiah 42:1-3, a passage that originally applied to "Israel, ... my servant." Isaiah 41:8, emphasis added. But Matthew again tells us it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ!

The apostle Paul also followed the principle of applying statements originally made about the nation of Israel to Jesus Christ. God called Israel "my firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. Yet Paul said it was Jesus Christ who is "the firstborn of every creature." Colossians 1:15.

The clearest example of them all is where God called Israel "the seed of Abraham." Isaiah 41:8. Yet Paul later wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many," but to "one, ... which is Christ." Galatians 3:16, emphasis added. Thus we discover that over and over in the New Testament, statements that originally applied to the nation of Israel are applied to Jesus Christ. The Messiah is now "the seed." Therefore Jesus is the very essence of Israel! This is an explosive truth!

A very careful study of the first book of the New Testament reveals that Christ actually repeated the history of ancient Israel, point by point, and overcame where they had failed. Notice the following amazing parallels between the history of ancient Israel and of Jesus Christ:


In the Old Testament, a young man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to preserve his family alive (Genesis 45:5). In the New Testament we find another Joseph, who likewise had dreams and then went to Egypt to preserve his family (Matthew 2:13).

When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exodus 4:22. When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew 2:15.

When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. The apostle Paul says they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2. Jesus was also baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately afterward God proclaimed Him, "my beloved Son" (Matthew 3:15-17).

After the Israelites went through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Matthew 4:1, 2).

At the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy. At the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted Satan's temptations by quoting three Scriptures-all from Deuteronomy!

In Psalm 80:8, God calls Israel a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt." Yet Jesus later declared, "I am the true vine." John 15:1. In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to one man, to Jacob. It represented Jacob's spiritual victory over sin. Even so, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin!

A New Nation
Yet there is more. Remember that the name "Israel" not only referred to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is seen in the New Testament.


For example, the Lord had told the ancient Israelites, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:6. In the New Testament, Peter applies these exact words to the church: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." 1 Peter 2:9.

Likewise, right after Paul's statement in Galatians chapter 3 about Jesus being "the seed," he then told his Gentile converts [a Gentile is any person who is not of the Jewish faith], "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to Jesus Christ, but also to those who are born in Christ-His church! In other words, all true Christians are now God's spiritual Israel.

Double Vision
Have you ever been hit hard on the head and then started seeing double? Well, from what we have studied, the Christian world needs a loving bonk on the head with this New Testament truth so that more people will start "seeing double" about the subject of Israel! According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (
Romans 9:3, 4). The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. That is, not all are part of God's spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continued, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:8. The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today any person-Jew or Gentile-can become a part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.

God Looks on the Heart
Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews: (1) Jews who are only natural descendants of Abraham, and (2) Jews in the Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God. ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29.
Did you catch that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is "called a Jew" because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, "is not a Jew." His "circumcision is made uncircumcision." Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteousness of the law," his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew. John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. "Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:8, 9.

Later Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. "They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." John 8:39, 44, emphasis added.

Paul wrote, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3. Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody-Jew or Gentile-who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!

Eventually this truth hit Peter between the eyes, and he told a room full of Gentile converts, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34, 35.
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel
~

:)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
PS. I PERCEIVE THAT YOU ARE JEWISH, AND A CHRISTIAN.
DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE TRUE OLIVE BRANCH?;)
A TRUE OLIVE BRANCHE GRAFTED TO THE TRUE OLIVE TREE WOULD BE MUCH
BETTER, THAN A WILD OLIVE BRANCH GRAFTED TO THE TRUE OLIVE TREE.
DID YOU KNOW THAT. SO KEEP ON SEEKING GOD WITH YOUR HEART,AND PRAY
AND HE WILL OPEN UP THE WHOLE PICTURE,BUT PLEASE DONT RELY ON BOOKS
GOD DID NOT WRITE THOSE BOOKS. USE HIS WORD IF YOU WANT TO SEEK HIM.
GOD BLESS.
WAKEUP.
i can read anything i wish, wakeup...can't you?:D
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
what about it? you say ALL ISRAEL will be saved. regardless. somehow.
and you HAVE to have all that dispensational stuff to make that work.



[/QUOTE]Hi Red, you gave a good answer. Israel will only be made up of the remnant...the reserved. Old and current. The new Israel will be made up of these only and all of these will be saved which now makes up the whole house of Israel (to come in)

The whole nation of Israel ruled & taught by Jesus & the Saints will accept truth this time. The rest of the Israelites will be judged by the law after millenium.
Regards
Journey
ENOUGH NOW.



Hebrews 9
23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
 
Feb 14, 2011
1,783
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i can read anything i wish, wakeup...can't you?:D

DONT MISUNDERSTAND ME, I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT YOU CAN READ AND WHAT YOU CANT READ. YOU CAN READ THE WOMENS WEEKLY TOO IF YOU LIKE, SO WHAT I'M GIVING YOU IS GOOD ADVICE. BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS ONLY FOUND IN THE HOLY BIBLE WHICH GOD WROTE THROUGH THE PROPHETS AND APPOSTLES AND HIS SON (JESUS) SO WHY WOULD WE GO ANYWHERE ELSE TO SEEK SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? DOESNT IT TELL YOU THAT YOUR FAITH IN THE BIBLE (THE WORD OF GOD) IS NOT SUFFICIENT. HAVE YOU GOT NO TRUST IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT HE COULD GIVE YOU ALL THE SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? FOR YOU ARE GOING TO MEN TO SEEK SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? iF YOU WISH TO READ OTHER BOOKS, TO SUPPORT THE BIBLE, IT'S YOUR CHOICE BUT i PERSONALLY HAVE FAITH IN THE BIBLE TO GIVE ME SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. YOU CARRY ON WITH YOUR READING MY DEAR. ITS YOUR CHOICE. GOD BLESS.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
DONT MISUNDERSTAND ME, I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT YOU CAN READ AND WHAT YOU CANT READ. YOU CAN READ THE WOMENS WEEKLY TOO IF YOU LIKE, SO WHAT I'M GIVING YOU IS GOOD ADVICE. BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS ONLY FOUND IN THE HOLY BIBLE WHICH GOD WROTE THROUGH THE PROPHETS AND APPOSTLES AND HIS SON (JESUS) SO WHY WOULD WE GO ANYWHERE ELSE TO SEEK SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? DOESNT IT TELL YOU THAT YOUR FAITH IN THE BIBLE (THE WORD OF GOD) IS NOT SUFFICIENT. HAVE YOU GOT NO TRUST IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT HE COULD GIVE YOU ALL THE SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? FOR YOU ARE GOING TO MEN TO SEEK SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE? iF YOU WISH TO READ OTHER BOOKS, TO SUPPORT THE BIBLE, IT'S YOUR CHOICE BUT i PERSONALLY HAVE FAITH IN THE BIBLE TO GIVE ME SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. YOU CARRY ON WITH YOUR READING MY DEAR. ITS YOUR CHOICE. GOD BLESS.
wakeup, please stop trying to equate my love of learning with a lack of faith, okay?
it's silly.

did you go to school? how did you learn to read?

Absolute and Authoritative Truth is found only in God's Word.

nowhere, however, are we told to never learn anything:rolleyes:

daniel studied in nebuchadnezzar's university.

joseph did pretty well in egypt.

neither one lacked faith in God.
 
W

walt2000

Guest
The Eighth Thunder

Thunder no.1 Seals 6/1
.6/1 I Watched as the lamb opened the first seal.2.I looked and there before me was a White Horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Move over to thunder 2

.8/8 The second angel sounded his trumpet,and something like a huge mountain,all ablaze, was thrown into the Sea ( Christians) a third of the Sea turned into blood.

Move over to Trumpets no. 3.Witnesses

11/7 now when they finished (referring to the witnesses) their testimony the Beast that comes up from the abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.8.Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt,where also their lord was crucified.9.for three and a half days men from every people,tribe,language and nation will gaze on their body's and refuse them burial.

Move over to thunder no.4 The Earth 14/6 the

Read ,three angel messengers.only then go to ,

Thunder no.5 of The Word.move over to
Read all of the three messengers Three angels.

14/6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair,and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth-to every nation,tribe,language and people . 7.He said in a loud voice,"Fear God and give him glory,because the hour of his judgment has come,Worship him who made the heavens,the earth, the sea and the springs of water."8.A second angel followed and said "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,which made all nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries."9.A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice:"If anyone worships the beast ans his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand,10.he ,too,will drink of the wine of god's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.he will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb.11.And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever.There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."12. This calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Move over to Thunder no.6 the man Thunder

16/12.The sixth angel poured his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its waters was dried up to prepare the way for the Kings from the East.

Move over to 7 Thunder,The whore thunder- Divine

19/11. I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a White Horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.12.His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns, He has a name written on him that no one knows but himself.13.He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

All the above ,this is, the Eighth Thunder .It is called THE GREAT THUNDER Re.14/2
Eight is the number of a new beginning.
walt2000.
 
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walt2000

Guest
Read the blue line none of you found the Eghth Thunder.
The Great Thunder.Rev. 14/2 walt2000
 
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walt2000

Guest
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Revelation Seven Thunders.walt2000
 
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walt2000

Guest
Come on Guys prove me Wrong.
If you think I just Pulled this out of a Hat .You are wrong, Prove Christ .It is a Consecutive flow of Scripture .All in the same order as Christ Gave It to John.walt2000
 

Floyd

Junior Member
Jan 16, 2011
16
0
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WHAT DO PEOPLE BELIEVE ABOUT THE RAPTURE?

1. Some people deny that such an event will ever occur! (no future rapture view)

2. Some believe that it occurs at the middle of the coming Tribulation! (mid‐tribulation view)

3. Some believe it will happen just before the seven last plagues! (pre‐wrath rapture)

4. Some believe that only Spirit‐filled believers will be raptured! (partial rapture view)

5. Many believe that it describes the same event as the Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation! (post‐tribulation view)

6. Many believe that it will happen BEFORE the Tribulation begins! (pre‐tribulation view)

There are at least SEVEN major objections to the pre‐tribulational
RAPTURE of church age believers!

1. The word “rapture” does NOT appear anywhere in the English Bible, but is is found in the Latin BIble!

(1) Neither does the word “trinity”

(2) It is used in the Latin Bible ‐ “rapturo”

(3) The word translates a Greek word ‐ “harpazo”

(4) The Greek word is used in the following passages: Acts 8:39 II Corinthians 12:2, 4 I Thessalonians 4:17 Revelation 12:5

(5) Its direct antonym means “to leave behind”

2. Believers will be protected but NOT removed from the coming tribulation!
Revelation 3:10
(1) The purpose of the coming tribulation – “to try them that dwell upon the earth”

(2) Those who “dwell upon the earth” are unbelievers!

(3) The “hour of temptation” is worldwide – “shall come upon ALL the world”

(4) The preposition “from” is NOT the Greek word “apo” but the Greek word “ek” – which means “out of”

(5) Most believers are killed in the Tribulation, NOT protected from it!

CONCLUSION: CHURCH AGE BELIEVERS WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE COMING TRIBULATION!

3. The “wrath” of I Thessalonians 5:9 is referring to Hell, NOT the coming tribulation!

(1) The “wrath” is described in the context as the coming “Day of the ADONAI”
(2) The “wrath to come” in I Thessalonians 1:10 could be a reference to Hell – “even Yeshua, which delivered us from the wrath to come”

(3) The opening of the 6th seal announces “For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” Revelation 6:17

(4) The pouring out of the seven bowls upon the earth is described as “the wrath of Elohim” – Revelation 16:1

4. The words “to meet the Adonai in the air” are referring to His return at the end of the tribulation! cf. Matthew 25:6 with I Thessalonians 4:17

(1) Those who “meet the Adonai in the air” include the “dead in Christ” and those believers who are “alive and remain” – those who meet the Bridegroom in Matthew 25 are described as five “wise virgins” while five “foolish virgins” are shut out of the marriage!

(2) In I Thessalonians 4:17 the meeting is “in the air” – in Matthew 25 the marriage is “on the earth”

(3) The words “to meet the Adonai in the air” are not correctly translated – the word is a noun and refers to a “meeting” which the Adonai has planned for church‐age believers!

5. The “rapture” is the same event as the “Second Coming”!
(1) At the Rapture, we meet the Adonai “in the air” At the Second Coming we meet the Adonai “on the earth”

(2) At the Rapture, the Adonai comes “for His saints” At the Second Coming, He comes “with His saints”

6. The “trump of Elohim” is called the “last trump” in I Corinthians 15:51‐52 and refers to the 7th trumpet mentioned in Revelation 11:15!

(1) The “last trump” is in the context that which contrasts our Adonai as the “last Adam” with the “first man Adam.” But, our Adonai was NOT the last man to exist on the earth!

(2) The “seventh trumpet” of the Book of Revelation is NOT the last trumpet to be blown!

(3) Zechariah 9:14‐17 speaks of the coming victory of our Adonai and says “the Adonai ELOHIM shall blow the trumpet” – but, in Revelation, the seven trumpets are blown by the seven angels!

7. The “first resurrection” for believers only ‐ does not happen until after the tribulation!

(1) The resurrection of OT believers AFTER the tribulation – Dan. 12:1‐3 – refers to the “children of Thy people” when “Thy people shall be delivered” (no reference to church‐age believers!)

(2) The resurrection of tribulation saints who will be martyred comes AFTER the Tribulation and is called “the first resurrection” – no mentioned of church‐age believers!

(3) The Rapture passages reveal the “dead will be raised” and some will be “alive and remain” and they “shall be changed.” Who are those who are “alive and remain” if Gentile believers are martyred?

WHY BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE?
1. Because the BIBLE teaches it!
2. Because it is the HOPE of resurrection!
3. Because it guarantees a future REUNION of believers!
4. Because it promises that we will be with the ADONAI forever!
5. Because it brings great COMFORT to all believers!

YESHUA IS COMING AGAIN!