-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel
by Steve Wohlberg and Doug Batchelor
....But because the persistent and popular teachings of the day focused on a muscular Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and seat himself on David's throne, the disciples brushed aside Jesus' comments regarding His spiritual kingdom. They tried to make the spiritual prophecies literal, and their expectations were crushed by the cross. They lamented, "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." Luke 24:21, NKJV. Even after His resurrection, the disciples were still clinging to these popular views and hoping for an imminent, literal kingdom. "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1:6.
Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!
The Name "Israel"
It is impossible to clearly understand the subject of Israel apart from a careful study of the Old Testament. The first time the name "Israel" appears in Scripture was when it was spoken to Jacob after his long night of wrestling with a powerful opponent. The heavenly stranger finally said, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28, emphasis added. Thus the name "Israel" was at first a name of heavenly origin applying to Jacob alone. It represented his spiritual victory over sin, through wrestling in prayer and claiming God's grace.
Jacob had 12 sons who later moved into Egypt. The descendants of these sons eventually multiplied into the 12 tribes that were forced into slavery by the Egyptians until the time of Moses. Then God told Pharaoh through Moses, "Israel is my son, even my firstborn. ... Let my son go." Exodus 4:22, 23. Note that here the name "Israel" is expanded to include Jacob's descendants. Therefore, the name "Israel" first applied to a victorious man, then to his people. We shall soon see why this is a very important point.
Israel, God's Son
About 800 B.C., the Lord spoke through the prophet Hosea, saying, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1. Yet by this time the nation of Israel had failed to live up to the spiritual meaning of its own name. This verse in Hosea will explode with tremendous importance in just a moment, when we look at the New Testament.
Approximately 800 years after Hosea's prophecy, "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king." Matthew 2:1. Because Herod was threatened by this new child king, he sent soldiers who "slew all the children that were in Bethlehem." Verse 16. Joseph was warned of the impending crisis in advance. "The angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word." Verse 13. So the holy family arose and "departed into Egypt." Verse 14.
Matthew writes that little Jesus remained in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Verse 15. Notice that Matthew is quoting Hosea 11:1, which originally referred to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt, yet now he declares it "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ! Here Matthew is beginning to reveal a truly shocking principle that he develops throughout his Gospel.
For example, one time after healing a group of people, Jesus modestly "charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Greek for Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets." Matthew 12:16-19, emphasis added. Here the Gospel writer is quoting Isaiah 42:1-3, a passage that originally applied to "Israel, ... my servant." Isaiah 41:8, emphasis added. But Matthew again tells us it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ!
The apostle Paul also followed the principle of applying statements originally made about the nation of Israel to Jesus Christ. God called Israel "my firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. Yet Paul said it was Jesus Christ who is "the firstborn of every creature." Colossians 1:15.
The clearest example of them all is where God called Israel "the seed of Abraham." Isaiah 41:8. Yet Paul later wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many," but to "one, ... which is Christ." Galatians 3:16, emphasis added. Thus we discover that over and over in the New Testament, statements that originally applied to the nation of Israel are applied to Jesus Christ. The Messiah is now "the seed." Therefore Jesus is the very essence of Israel! This is an explosive truth!
A very careful study of the first book of the New Testament reveals that Christ actually repeated the history of ancient Israel, point by point, and overcame where they had failed. Notice the following amazing parallels between the history of ancient Israel and of Jesus Christ:
In the Old Testament, a young man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to preserve his family alive (Genesis 45:5). In the New Testament we find another Joseph, who likewise had dreams and then went to Egypt to preserve his family (Matthew 2:13).
When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exodus 4:22. When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew 2:15.
When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. The apostle Paul says they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2. Jesus was also baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately afterward God proclaimed Him, "my beloved Son" (Matthew 3:15-17).
After the Israelites went through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Matthew 4:1, 2).
At the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy. At the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted Satan's temptations by quoting three Scriptures-all from Deuteronomy!
In Psalm 80:8, God calls Israel a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt." Yet Jesus later declared, "I am the true vine." John 15:1. In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to one man, to Jacob. It represented Jacob's spiritual victory over sin. Even so, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin!
A New Nation
Yet there is more. Remember that the name "Israel" not only referred to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is seen in the New Testament.
For example, the Lord had told the ancient Israelites, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:6. In the New Testament, Peter applies these exact words to the church: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." 1 Peter 2:9.
Likewise, right after Paul's statement in Galatians chapter 3 about Jesus being "the seed," he then told his Gentile converts [a Gentile is any person who is not of the Jewish faith], "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to Jesus Christ, but also to those who are born in Christ-His church! In other words, all true Christians are now God's spiritual Israel.
Double Vision
Have you ever been hit hard on the head and then started seeing double? Well, from what we have studied, the Christian world needs a loving bonk on the head with this New Testament truth so that more people will start "seeing double" about the subject of Israel! According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (Romans 9:3, 4). The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.
Paul wrote, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. That is, not all are part of God's spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continued, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:8. The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today any person-Jew or Gentile-can become a part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.
God Looks on the Heart
Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews: (1) Jews who are only natural descendants of Abraham, and (2) Jews in the Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God. ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29.
Did you catch that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is "called a Jew" because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, "is not a Jew." His "circumcision is made uncircumcision." Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteousness of the law," his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew. John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. "Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:8, 9.
Later Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. "They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." John 8:39, 44, emphasis added.
Paul wrote, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3. Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody-Jew or Gentile-who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!
Eventually this truth hit Peter between the eyes, and he told a room full of Gentile converts, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34, 35.
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel
~
by Steve Wohlberg and Doug Batchelor
....But because the persistent and popular teachings of the day focused on a muscular Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and seat himself on David's throne, the disciples brushed aside Jesus' comments regarding His spiritual kingdom. They tried to make the spiritual prophecies literal, and their expectations were crushed by the cross. They lamented, "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." Luke 24:21, NKJV. Even after His resurrection, the disciples were still clinging to these popular views and hoping for an imminent, literal kingdom. "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1:6.
Is it possible that the church at large is making the same mistake today by misapplying prophecies regarding spiritual Israel and the temple and by trying to interpret them in a literal sense? If so, they could be preparing to embrace a diabolical deception-not to mention experience a devastating disappointment!
The Name "Israel"
It is impossible to clearly understand the subject of Israel apart from a careful study of the Old Testament. The first time the name "Israel" appears in Scripture was when it was spoken to Jacob after his long night of wrestling with a powerful opponent. The heavenly stranger finally said, "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Genesis 32:28, emphasis added. Thus the name "Israel" was at first a name of heavenly origin applying to Jacob alone. It represented his spiritual victory over sin, through wrestling in prayer and claiming God's grace.
Jacob had 12 sons who later moved into Egypt. The descendants of these sons eventually multiplied into the 12 tribes that were forced into slavery by the Egyptians until the time of Moses. Then God told Pharaoh through Moses, "Israel is my son, even my firstborn. ... Let my son go." Exodus 4:22, 23. Note that here the name "Israel" is expanded to include Jacob's descendants. Therefore, the name "Israel" first applied to a victorious man, then to his people. We shall soon see why this is a very important point.
Israel, God's Son
About 800 B.C., the Lord spoke through the prophet Hosea, saying, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1. Yet by this time the nation of Israel had failed to live up to the spiritual meaning of its own name. This verse in Hosea will explode with tremendous importance in just a moment, when we look at the New Testament.
Approximately 800 years after Hosea's prophecy, "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king." Matthew 2:1. Because Herod was threatened by this new child king, he sent soldiers who "slew all the children that were in Bethlehem." Verse 16. Joseph was warned of the impending crisis in advance. "The angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word." Verse 13. So the holy family arose and "departed into Egypt." Verse 14.
Matthew writes that little Jesus remained in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Verse 15. Notice that Matthew is quoting Hosea 11:1, which originally referred to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt, yet now he declares it "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ! Here Matthew is beginning to reveal a truly shocking principle that he develops throughout his Gospel.
For example, one time after healing a group of people, Jesus modestly "charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Greek for Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets." Matthew 12:16-19, emphasis added. Here the Gospel writer is quoting Isaiah 42:1-3, a passage that originally applied to "Israel, ... my servant." Isaiah 41:8, emphasis added. But Matthew again tells us it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ!
The apostle Paul also followed the principle of applying statements originally made about the nation of Israel to Jesus Christ. God called Israel "my firstborn" in Exodus 4:22. Yet Paul said it was Jesus Christ who is "the firstborn of every creature." Colossians 1:15.
The clearest example of them all is where God called Israel "the seed of Abraham." Isaiah 41:8. Yet Paul later wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many," but to "one, ... which is Christ." Galatians 3:16, emphasis added. Thus we discover that over and over in the New Testament, statements that originally applied to the nation of Israel are applied to Jesus Christ. The Messiah is now "the seed." Therefore Jesus is the very essence of Israel! This is an explosive truth!
A very careful study of the first book of the New Testament reveals that Christ actually repeated the history of ancient Israel, point by point, and overcame where they had failed. Notice the following amazing parallels between the history of ancient Israel and of Jesus Christ:
In the Old Testament, a young man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to preserve his family alive (Genesis 45:5). In the New Testament we find another Joseph, who likewise had dreams and then went to Egypt to preserve his family (Matthew 2:13).
When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exodus 4:22. When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matthew 2:15.
When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. The apostle Paul says they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." 1 Corinthians 10:2. Jesus was also baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately afterward God proclaimed Him, "my beloved Son" (Matthew 3:15-17).
After the Israelites went through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness. Immediately after His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Matthew 4:1, 2).
At the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy. At the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted Satan's temptations by quoting three Scriptures-all from Deuteronomy!
In Psalm 80:8, God calls Israel a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt." Yet Jesus later declared, "I am the true vine." John 15:1. In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to one man, to Jacob. It represented Jacob's spiritual victory over sin. Even so, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin!
A New Nation
Yet there is more. Remember that the name "Israel" not only referred to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is seen in the New Testament.
For example, the Lord had told the ancient Israelites, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:6. In the New Testament, Peter applies these exact words to the church: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." 1 Peter 2:9.
Likewise, right after Paul's statement in Galatians chapter 3 about Jesus being "the seed," he then told his Gentile converts [a Gentile is any person who is not of the Jewish faith], "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to Jesus Christ, but also to those who are born in Christ-His church! In other words, all true Christians are now God's spiritual Israel.
Double Vision
Have you ever been hit hard on the head and then started seeing double? Well, from what we have studied, the Christian world needs a loving bonk on the head with this New Testament truth so that more people will start "seeing double" about the subject of Israel! According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (Romans 9:3, 4). The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.
Paul wrote, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Romans 9:6. That is, not all are part of God's spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continued, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:8. The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed. Today any person-Jew or Gentile-can become a part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.
God Looks on the Heart
Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews: (1) Jews who are only natural descendants of Abraham, and (2) Jews in the Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ. Paul wrote, "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God. ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29.
Did you catch that? The implications are staggering! Someone who is "called a Jew" because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, "is not a Jew." His "circumcision is made uncircumcision." Thus to God, he is a Gentile. And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteousness of the law," his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision. Thus to God, he is a Jew. John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. "Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:8, 9.
Later Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. "They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." John 8:39, 44, emphasis added.
Paul wrote, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Galatians 3:7. "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3. Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody-Jew or Gentile-who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!
Eventually this truth hit Peter between the eyes, and he told a room full of Gentile converts, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34, 35.
Two Jews Identify Spiritual Israel
~
thank you zone
yes we know that there is israel the flesh, and israel the true followers.
yes , jesus is israel, he is of the seed of david,and he is a true believer
therefore,he is the first of spiritual israel. he is the first born of
spiritual israel,the first born of the dead( resurected ) and all his brothers will follow ,when they are resurected.
all true believers will be resurected at jesus coming, but we must not ignore that there is the first fruits, then the rest in christ.
you havent given us new information. what you have given us is
basic information, i like you to carry on and tell us about the second
coming , and elaborate .
wakeup
wakeup.
the pretrib rapturists and millennialists need the 70th week.
you get that right?
that's why its KEY to establish its fulfillment.
without that 70th week, that system has NO FOUNDATION:
no 7 year trib to be raptured from
no need for new system established in earthly jerusalem for unbelieving jews.
get it?
you know the 70th week was fulfilled. so now you know why there's no MILLENNIUM.
IT IS FINISHED.
the pretrib rapturists and millennialists need the 70th week.
you get that right?
that's why its KEY to establish its fulfillment.
without that 70th week, that system has NO FOUNDATION:
no 7 year trib to be raptured from
no need for new system established in earthly jerusalem for unbelieving jews.
get it?
you know the 70th week was fulfilled. so now you know why there's no MILLENNIUM.
IT IS FINISHED.
i'm glad you realize this is not new information, nor mine.
the Second Coming?
He's coming to judge the living and the dead.
Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
Matthew 13:43
They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 16:41
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
1 Peter 4:5
But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
Hebrews 9:28
so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.
We are not in darkness. We know when he's coming. Not the day nor hour though. He definately aint coming tomorrow, or the next day because certain end time prophecies have to be fulfilled first, and when that has come to pass, we can start counting then.
On the other hand, if we were to die unexpectedly, then when we open our eyes, he will be there. That is when he will come as a thief. For a theif comes when you dont expect him.
Regards
Journey
On the other hand, if we were to die unexpectedly, then when we open our eyes, he will be there. That is when he will come as a thief. For a theif comes when you dont expect him.
Regards
Journey
at the second coming, babylon the great will be no more it will be
destroyed.rev16:19. and the great city was devided into 3 parts
( jerusalem in3 parts ) (zech.14:3. 4.) and the cities of the nations fell. and great babylon came in remembrance before god to give to her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his--wrath--(jer.25:15. 16 ) ( the wine cup of gods fury. ) all the remnant of the whole world
will still occupy this world, but not inside the kingdom.
only the reserved 1kings:19:18 7000 reserved. there are resurved
back then and there are resureved during the centuries and today.a
remnant also mentioned in rom.11:5. ( a remnant accoording the election of( grace ) these are all the resurved of israel. the gentiles true believers and the jews in christ will be changed or resurected
the resurved will be taught by the resurected ones( consisting of gentiles and jews ) to provoke them to jealousy .because israel did provoked god to jealousyin the past . and this kingdom is paradise ,the land of milk and honey that was promised to moses
and this will be for a1000 yrs teaching all on the earth , and knowledge on the earth will be like the sea cover the earth.then comes gog and magog ,satan will be released from his prison,and god will put it in his heart to attac the kingdom. this is to sift out the non believers that are in the 4quarters of the earth,then destroy satan and all that follow him . now comes the second resurection,consisting of all the dead of all kinds and religion. they will be judged according to their works ,the sheep on the right and the goats on the left. the sheep will be accepted , satan and allthe goats will be thrown into the lake of fire. end of satan . then god will purify the earth itself,it will melt with fervent heat. now comes the new earth.( the heavens will also be renewed ) now god himself will come down to earth ,his tabernacle on earth. please read this and correct if necessarry.
regards from wakeup.
destroyed.rev16:19. and the great city was devided into 3 parts
( jerusalem in3 parts ) (zech.14:3. 4.) and the cities of the nations fell. and great babylon came in remembrance before god to give to her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his--wrath--(jer.25:15. 16 ) ( the wine cup of gods fury. ) all the remnant of the whole world
will still occupy this world, but not inside the kingdom.
only the reserved 1kings:19:18 7000 reserved. there are resurved
back then and there are resureved during the centuries and today.a
remnant also mentioned in rom.11:5. ( a remnant accoording the election of( grace ) these are all the resurved of israel. the gentiles true believers and the jews in christ will be changed or resurected
the resurved will be taught by the resurected ones( consisting of gentiles and jews ) to provoke them to jealousy .because israel did provoked god to jealousyin the past . and this kingdom is paradise ,the land of milk and honey that was promised to moses
and this will be for a1000 yrs teaching all on the earth , and knowledge on the earth will be like the sea cover the earth.then comes gog and magog ,satan will be released from his prison,and god will put it in his heart to attac the kingdom. this is to sift out the non believers that are in the 4quarters of the earth,then destroy satan and all that follow him . now comes the second resurection,consisting of all the dead of all kinds and religion. they will be judged according to their works ,the sheep on the right and the goats on the left. the sheep will be accepted , satan and allthe goats will be thrown into the lake of fire. end of satan . then god will purify the earth itself,it will melt with fervent heat. now comes the new earth.( the heavens will also be renewed ) now god himself will come down to earth ,his tabernacle on earth. please read this and correct if necessarry.
regards from wakeup.
check
huh?
sigh.
did Peter and Paul count themselves among them (the remnant)?
if yes, your future "reservations" theory fails.
??
let's seeeeee:
1) the gentiles true believers
2) and the jews in christ
3) will be changed or resurected
then:
4) the resurved will be taught by the resurected ones( consisting of gentiles and jews ) to provoke them to jealousy
therefore, according to this theory:
there is a remnant (election) according to Grace which never comes to the knowledge of the Truth; until they are (still in their flesh bodies) taught by resurrected gentiles and jews (huh? i thought the jews were the elect remnant?)
so, does that mean the Apostles never knew the Truth, and will be resurrected back into temporary flesh bodies to be taught by gentiles (and some jews, though not sure where this variety of jews came from)?
hold it.
all that stuff is to sift out non-believers?
so, who is the blind remnant in your future scenario (the 144,000?)
wakeup....if the critical term a thousand years means THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM, and you realize jesus fulfilled all 70 Messianic Weeks, what are you doing inserting a Talmudic utopian earth reign in there for?
if Jesus already came and did all God Promised, why are you reversing His Work?
how is it that after a thousand years men will still be permitted to rebel (never mind be willing to) against a Glorified Christ from temporal Jerusalem?
can they actually see Him?
hi wakeup.
forget the 1,000 years.
all that stuff happened and is happening from Calvary to The Second Advent, then the sheep and goats; and New Heaven and New Earth.
like....you already see that. why are you gripping on to a fable?
zone
huh?
sigh.
did Peter and Paul count themselves among them (the remnant)?
if yes, your future "reservations" theory fails.
??
let's seeeeee:
1) the gentiles true believers
2) and the jews in christ
3) will be changed or resurected
then:
4) the resurved will be taught by the resurected ones( consisting of gentiles and jews ) to provoke them to jealousy
therefore, according to this theory:
there is a remnant (election) according to Grace which never comes to the knowledge of the Truth; until they are (still in their flesh bodies) taught by resurrected gentiles and jews (huh? i thought the jews were the elect remnant?)
so, does that mean the Apostles never knew the Truth, and will be resurrected back into temporary flesh bodies to be taught by gentiles (and some jews, though not sure where this variety of jews came from)?
hold it.
all that stuff is to sift out non-believers?
so, who is the blind remnant in your future scenario (the 144,000?)
wakeup....if the critical term a thousand years means THE MESSIANIC KINGDOM, and you realize jesus fulfilled all 70 Messianic Weeks, what are you doing inserting a Talmudic utopian earth reign in there for?
if Jesus already came and did all God Promised, why are you reversing His Work?
how is it that after a thousand years men will still be permitted to rebel (never mind be willing to) against a Glorified Christ from temporal Jerusalem?
can they actually see Him?
hi wakeup.
forget the 1,000 years.
all that stuff happened and is happening from Calvary to The Second Advent, then the sheep and goats; and New Heaven and New Earth.
like....you already see that. why are you gripping on to a fable?
zone
what 'rest of the population'?
if you believe in Judgment Day, what's the issue?
New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem....eternity.
the new has come, the former things are passed away (they are passing away NOW).
the big question is, is there temporal stuff going on AFTER The Second Advent...if the answer is no, everything falls beautifully into place. there's only ONE reason to separate The Finished Work of Jesus, placing some of it after the Second Advent:......to say He hasn't come in the flesh and done the Work His Father gave Him to do in part or in full....this opens the door for a series of fables concerning Judaism, which is (we can clearly see for ourselves) the Pharisee's religion.
like it or not, that's the reality.
so, after we decide what has been fulfilled, THEN we can look to see what hasn't (2 Thessalonians 2 & Revelation line up in the eschaton).
think of how the prophets of old looked from afar: sometimes they saw the First Advent and thought it to be Redemption in full....the closer the Bible takes us to Calvary, the more hills/wilderness we cross over (Abram), the more we see the Redemptive Plan in motion, with the KRISIS (crisis) critical point being Daniel's 70th WEEK, and we now see 2 ADVENTS, not one.
two of everything, really (temporal and spiritual/Jerusalem/Israel, etc).
Pharisees wiki
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All maintream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
if you believe in Judgment Day, what's the issue?
New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem....eternity.
the new has come, the former things are passed away (they are passing away NOW).
the big question is, is there temporal stuff going on AFTER The Second Advent...if the answer is no, everything falls beautifully into place. there's only ONE reason to separate The Finished Work of Jesus, placing some of it after the Second Advent:......to say He hasn't come in the flesh and done the Work His Father gave Him to do in part or in full....this opens the door for a series of fables concerning Judaism, which is (we can clearly see for ourselves) the Pharisee's religion.
like it or not, that's the reality.
so, after we decide what has been fulfilled, THEN we can look to see what hasn't (2 Thessalonians 2 & Revelation line up in the eschaton).
think of how the prophets of old looked from afar: sometimes they saw the First Advent and thought it to be Redemption in full....the closer the Bible takes us to Calvary, the more hills/wilderness we cross over (Abram), the more we see the Redemptive Plan in motion, with the KRISIS (crisis) critical point being Daniel's 70th WEEK, and we now see 2 ADVENTS, not one.
two of everything, really (temporal and spiritual/Jerusalem/Israel, etc).
Pharisees wiki
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All maintream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Last edited:
wakeup:
here's another fable that's been inserted into our SIMPLE Gospel: that God did NOT give The Promised Land to israel, all according to what He had Promised their forefathers.
Joshua (is the name Jesus) is a TYPE of Redemption, including all the earthly types of the Coming Eternity....think Promised Land, Wilderness, perishing outside The Promised Land due to unbelief, etc...>> ALL POINTS TO JESUS.
better go back and read Joshua....God DID fulfill ALL He Promised concerning the (temporal) Land.
Joshua 21:43-45
Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
Joshua 21 ESV
are you starting to see the GREAT HOAX?
here's another fable that's been inserted into our SIMPLE Gospel: that God did NOT give The Promised Land to israel, all according to what He had Promised their forefathers.
Joshua (is the name Jesus) is a TYPE of Redemption, including all the earthly types of the Coming Eternity....think Promised Land, Wilderness, perishing outside The Promised Land due to unbelief, etc...>> ALL POINTS TO JESUS.
better go back and read Joshua....God DID fulfill ALL He Promised concerning the (temporal) Land.
Joshua 21:43-45
Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
Joshua 21 ESV
are you starting to see the GREAT HOAX?
IF YOU BELONG TO THE 144000, YES YOU WILL MEET HIM IN THE AIR.ONLY THE ===FIRST FRUITS ====WILL MEET HIM IN THE AIR. NOT EVERY CHRISTIAN,FOR THEY HAVE TO GO TROUGH
THE GREAT TRIB. MAT24:29. ( READ JESUS LIPS ) IMMEDIATELY
AFTER==AFTER THE TRIB. HE IS COMING. HE IS NOT COMING
BEFORE THE TRIB. HE SAID AFTER.
WAKEUP.
HUH?
so, wakeup, you still have a pretrib rapture, but this time only for the 144,000?
everybody else gets left behind?
i thought you said there would be a gentile/jewish church combo that goes in the rapture (?)/resurrection; and then teaches the blind (resurrected into 2nd flesh bodies) remnant....
now you have it reversed? i thought you said you weren't pretrib??
clarify please.