Born Again Speaking in Tongues

wolfwint · Jun 8, 2019

And again, why you can not stand behind your faith?
If you, then you must say that before the year 1908 no christians were found in australia. To be a christian means having the Holy Spirit.
And according your faith was the first person found in australia an woman in 1908 trough reading an pamphlete from Andrew Murray.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

How would you know? Where you with him?

And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he [Jesus] departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed.
Mark 1:35
And after he had taken leave of them, he [Jesus] went up on the mountain to pray.
Mark 6:46
And after he [Jesus] had dismissed the crowds, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone,
Matthew 14:23

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

No way hose - yours gospel is not what is preached by Jesus and the Apostles. It most certainly is not the gospel of the first church.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

Please stop with the hypocrisy.
Get thee to a real Pentecostal church where God through his indwelling Holy Spirit in the saints speaks to his church, his children,
in an unknown tongue and then speaks the interpretation. And then goes on to give up to three gifts of prophecy for us to learn from.
God confirms the truth himself.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

wolfwint said:

You really are a vinyl record.
The first church of the first century was only Pentecostal.
To be a Christian, a follower of the way, a person needed to repent and believe - this was put into action through submitting to
full immersion water baptism and also the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue.
Acts tells us about this and the epistles were written to the one and only Spirit-filled church that complied with the above.

God knew that this would only last for a short period, given the nature of humankind in a world ruled by Satan.
And sure enough the miraculous signs and gifts of the early church dissipated and the Babylonian influenced church of Rome
gained the ascendancy and eventually became the RCC and the Papacy.

Jesus has love and compassion for all Christians whether they be Roman Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, and other flavours.
All Christians have the hope of mercy and forgiveness and having their name written in the Book of Life.
But just as God established a Spirit-filled Pentecostal church and faith in the beginning to kickstart off Christianity so now in these
very last of last days God again has brought back Pentecostal revival and churches to again draw people to salvation.
When the world is on fire those without the Holy Spirit will have great difficulty keeping their faith and being distinct and
separate from all the others who will perish.

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Waggles said:

So, what are the mysteries of God according to the Bible?

1. The mystery that the gospel is also to the Gentiles:
"For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel." Eph. 3:1-6

2. The mystery that is Christ in you.
"I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Col. 1:23-27

3.The mystery that is Christ

"My goal is that their hearts, having been knit together in love, may be encouraged, and that they may have all the riches that assurance brings in their understanding of the knowledge of the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Col. 2:2-3

"Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:

He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory." 1 Tim. 3:16

Mystery of speaking in tongues?

"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified." 1 Cor. 14:2-5

" For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen”to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified." 1 Cor. 14:13-17

This whole chapter is one where Paul points out that tongues are fruitless, not edifying to the church, and that UNDERSTANDING is more important.

So, yes, it is there, but it is only to point out the error of the Corinthians in exalting tongues, when there are so many more important things we can do as Christians to praise and glorify God. No wonder the whole practice died out. Paul says it clearly that tongues are simply not the goal.

If you have some verses that say otherwise, please post them. Otherwise, we shall leave it that the real mystery is the gospel that Christ died for our sins, Gentiles and Jews, and the Christ is the true mystery, risen from the dead and conquered sin.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

And how is it that Christ Jesus dwells within us - by the Holy Spirit given from God.
And how do we know that we have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit but by the sign that Jesus himself declares:
that is speaking (or rather praying) in a new tongue.
Stick to Jesus and what he teaches us.

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Waggles said:

So, are you speaking of Mark 16, the longer ending? The verses after verse 8 are not part of the original gospel of Mark. The words are different, the doctrine is different, and the high Christology. While these verses were probably added at the end of the 2nd century, there are too many extant copies from every branch which do not have these verses, for any scholar to take them seriously.

So, if your doctrine hangs on verses which were not there in the original manuscript, it is probably wise not to quote them. But then, there are so few verses referring to tongues anywhere in the Bible, and even Paul states tongues are not important, no matter what the internal manuscript and eternal manscript evidence is, you will choose to believe, in order that your heresy does not fall apart.

Again, I suggested you read the whole Bible, not looking for anything to confirm your doctrine, but just to get to know Christ better, and what he says about how to follow him. If you cannot, then, I go back to my idea that most Pentecostals like you, are stuck in the mud. The whole Bible is revealed truth, and you need to read it, forget about your biases and prejudices, and really learn what the Bible says.

I read the Bible 15 times in the 15 years I was in Pentecostal churches. By the end, I realized I had never heard in church, what I was reading in my Bible. So, I left, went to an Evangelical Free church where I heard what I was reading in my Bible being preached, and then to various Baptist churches as we moved, and I am still hearing what I am reading in my Bible. 24 years of reading the Bible, and hearing it in church. Really, the contrast is stunning. Sad people get so caught up in a side issue, instead of seeking and finding the whole Word of God.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

Well that's the anti-Christ in action.
The Word of God is not true and cannot be relied upon.
Worldly Christians claim their faith and their alternative gospel is based upon believing the Word of God; except for all those
troublesome verses that support the full gospel of the Pentecostal Church both in the first century and today.
Let's get out our scissors and whiteout fluid.

dcontroversal · Jun 8, 2019

dcontroversal said:

When I can make factual statements about the bible such as....

a. The Corinthian assembly was immature, carnal, had some 15 errors and the only church to have an issue with tongues
b. Paul, in Ephesians tells us exactly what signs are seen in one who is continually filled with the Spirit (clauses that follow) and speaking in tongues is not listed
c. It is idiotic to say one must speak in tongues to be saved

and then get a NEGATIVE RED X by a PENTECOSTAL -----> @Waggles <----speaks volumes to his dishonesty and blind bias......the reason many walk blind

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

Well if you could possibly do that for yourself then it would lead you to Pentecostal faith and being able to pray in tongues.

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Waggles said:

As I said before, we receive the Holy Spirit when we are saved by the grace of God. There is NO "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Quote the verse, if there is. With the noun, not the verb.

Jesus never says a new tongue is a sign of being saved. If there is Quote it! Jesus never spoke in tongues at all.

You do not know the Word of God at all. Thinking back to this whole thread, other than your few text proof verses you know, you really don't quote the Bible. When people just mouth things, as you have done, and expect it to stand up to scrutiny, you are in for trouble.

I'll even give you a hint - google what you need to know, or put it into Biblegateway.com. But, please, quote it in context. There is nothing I dislike more than verses torn out of context to prove a wrong point. So, prove to me we are not saved till we are so-called receive the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Prove to me you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

Finally, I think it is dishonest to not admit your are Oneness Pentecostal, and believe that people who don't get this mythical extra baptism are not saved, and fail to admit it.

I would request again, you would identify which branch of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement you are from. I can tolerate people that understand non tongue speakers are saved. But Oneness is just another cult, so I wold like to know where you stand, Waggles!

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Waggles said:

And in actual truth, reading the Bible through faithfully every year did the exact opposite. It lead me away from the whole nonsense movement.

If you read the whole Bible, it would move you away from Pentecostalism. But of course, as Isaiah says:

"He said, “Go and tell this people:

“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.” Isaiah 6:9-10

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

23 years in my Pentecostal Church and what is preached from the platform is sound doctrine, the truth and extremely scriptural
and compliant with my KJV Bible.
I know you Americans have problems with religion in the good old U.S.A but that does not mean that the rest of the world
follows your peculiar ways.
Does your current church operate the gifts of speaking in an unknown tongue and interpretation?
Do you operate the gifts of Prophecy - God speaking directly to his church, to his children?

If you were Bible obedient you would be doing this; as we are commanded to do.

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Waggles said:

Of course the Word of God is true! Just not all those added parts, particularly Mark 16:9-20. I can break it down more clearly for you, but what would be the point? You would not listen, because your false doctrine needs its support. Just like 1 John 5:17 is added, even Erasmus knew that. God has preserved his Word, make no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean the parts added are part.

As I said, all the earliest manuscripts do not have it, and neither do any of the early church fathers quote it. It is spurious and the real ending is missing. But, it wasn't necessary, or God would have preserved it.

theanointedwinner · Jun 8, 2019

I believe that tongues are largely unnecessary

Just pray the Lord's prayer found in Matthew 6, that should be sufficient

Waggles · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

Please that is the pot calling the kettle black.
Now what is that proverb about people in glass houses …

dcontroversal · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

As I said before, we receive the Holy Spirit when we are saved by the grace of God. There is NO "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Quote the verse, if there is. With the noun, not the verb.

Jesus never says a new tongue is a sign of being saved. If there is Quote it! Jesus never spoke in tongues at all.

You do not know the Word of God at all. Thinking back to this whole thread, other than your few text proof verses you know, you really don't quote the Bible. When people just mouth things, as you have done, and expect it to stand up to scrutiny, you are in for trouble.

I'll even give you a hint - google what you need to know, or put it into Biblegateway.com. But, please, quote it in context. There is nothing I dislike more than verses torn out of context to prove a wrong point. So, prove to me we are not saved till we are so-called receive the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Prove to me you have to speak in tongues to be saved.

Finally, I think it is dishonest to not admit your are Oneness Pentecostal, and believe that people who don't get this mythical extra baptism are not saved, and fail to admit it.

I would request again, you would identify which branch of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement you are from. I can tolerate people that understand non tongue speakers are saved. But Oneness is just another cult, so I wold like to know where you stand, Waggles!

Such are the way of religions, cults and false teachers.....proof texts out of context and blind bias to receiving truth........

Angela53510 · Jun 8, 2019

Should Mark 16:9-20 be in the Bible?

Answer: Although the vast majority of later Greek manuscripts contain Mark 16:9-20, the Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. As the oldest manuscripts are known to be the most accurate because there were fewer generations of copies from the original autographs (i.e., they are much closer in time to the originals), and the oldest manuscripts do not contain vv. 9-20, we can conclude that these verses were added later by scribes. The King James Version of the Bible, as well as the New King James, contains vv. 9-20 because the King James used medieval manuscripts as the basis of its translation. Since 1611, however, older and more accurate manuscripts have been discovered and they affirm that vv. 9-20 were not in the original Gospel of Mark.

In addition, the fourth-century church fathers Eusebius and Jerome noted that almost all Greek manuscripts available to them lacked vv. 9–20, although they doubtless knew those other endings existed. In the second century, Justin Martyrand Tatian knew about other endings. Irenaeus, also, in A.D. 150 to 200, must have known about this long ending because he quotes verse 19 from it. So, the early church fathers knew of the added verses, but even by the fourth century, Eusebius said the Greek manuscripts did not include these endings in the originals.

The internal evidence from this passage also casts doubt on Mark as the author. For one thing, the transition between verses 8 and 9 is abrupt and awkward. The Greek word translated “now” that begins v. 9 should link it to what follows, as the use of the word “now” does in the other synoptic Gospels. However, what follows doesn’t continue the story of the women referred to in v. 8, describing instead Jesus’ appearing to Mary Magdalene. There’s no transition there, but rather an abrupt and bizarre change, lacking the continuity typical of Mark’s narrative. The author should be continuing the story of the women based on the word “now,” not jumping to the appearance to Mary Magdalene. Further, for Mark to introduce Mary Magdalene here as though for the very first time (v. 9) is odd because she had already been introduced in Mark’s narrative (Mark 15:40, 47, 16:1), another evidence that this section was not written by Mark.

Furthermore, the vocabulary is not consistent with Mark’s Gospel. These last verses don’t read like Mark’s. There are eighteen words here that are never used anywhere by Mark, and the structure is very different from the familiar structure of his writing. The title “Lord Jesus,” used in verse 19, is never used anywhere else by Mark. Also, the reference to signs in vv. 17-18 doesn’t appear in any of the four Gospels. In no account, post-resurrection of Jesus, is there any discussion of signs like picking up serpents, speaking with tongues, casting out demons, drinking poison, or laying hands on the sick. So, both internally and externally, this is foreign to Mark.

While the added ending offers no new information, nor does it contradict previously revealed events and/or doctrine, both the external and internal evidence make it quite certain that Mark did not write it. In reality, ending his Gospel in verse 8 with the description of the amazement of the women at the tomb is entirely consistent with the rest of the narrative. Amazement at the Lord Jesus seems to be a theme with Mark. “They were amazed at his teaching” (Mark 1:22); “They were all amazed, so that they debated among themselves” (Mark 1:27); “He healed the paralytic, and they were all amazed and were glorifying God saying, ‘We’ve never seen anything like this’” (Mark 2:12). Astonishment at the work of Jesus is revealed throughout Mark’s narrative (Mark 4:41; 5:15, 33, 42; 6:51; 9:6, 15, 32; 10:24, 32; 11:18; 12:17; 16:5). Some, or even one, of the early scribes, however, apparently missed the thematic evidence and felt the need to add a more conventional ending.

Recommended Resource: Perspectives on the Ending of Mark: 4 Views edited by David Alan Black

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

dcontroversal · Jun 8, 2019

Angela53510 said:

Of course the Word of God is true! Just not all those added parts, particularly Mark 16:9-20. I can break it down more clearly for you, but what would be the point? You would not listen, because your false doctrine needs its support. Just like 1 John 5:17 is added, even Erasmus knew that. God has preserved his Word, make no doubt about that. But that doesn't mean the parts added are part.

As I said, all the earliest manuscripts do not have it, and neither do any of the early church fathers quote it. It is spurious and the real ending is missing. But, it wasn't necessary, or God would have preserved it.

It would be like hitting your head on the wall.....

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