What is Hell ? A small study help

[notuptome]

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The bible tells us that hell is in direct and concise terms.

Word of wisdom don't go there. Trust Christ and enter into heaven not into eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm not here to use Gods word to argue. if you have questions ill try to reply in kind. Debate is kinda a waste of time .

dcontroversal - Gods word is simple , we dont need pages of men's words in place of Gods simple truth .

Nehemiah6 - seems you have some good definitons, but some of your views you share is adding pure spiritualism to litteral passages.
Revelation called the lake of fire the second death. I don't . I took it word for word. I dont need pages to explain this because the bible is sufficient.

ToastAndTea - nothing really difficult with the passage. its simply what it says. There is a judgment day, and there is a price to be paid for the evil. Satan will be destroyed and anyone that follows. The entire chapter follows that thought . God will reward the good, and destroy the bad . In your rush to disagree with someone you just met, you missed the simplicity of the entire chapter expecting i should explain it further with my own words ?

well, then you must be here to teach?

this isn't a teaching site and debating is the usual format

however, you cannot dip yourself into this forum, create a post that actually does not benefit the understanding with regards to your chosen topic, and then say 'if you have questions' and 'debating is a waste of time'

that seems to indicate that you have all truth and we should follow your private interpretation

you will find that people here generally do NOT respond kindly to folks who believe they are the final word on all things Bible

but you will see that soon enough for yourself

in the meantime, please do not consider writing a commentary

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Its sad times when those doing the attacks, and are upside down with scripture themselves, are the majority and those who study are the minority. Yea you know best . Says those in a famine . smh sad.... You all must be having a seriously bad week. So I can relate to that. So i wont hold it against you. im sure you got enough to deal with ... Hope someone in a better mode can better appreciate my effort. bye.

oh my look at this

an ad hominum attack

like no one ever does this

if you cannot defend your interpretation and must needs resort to personal remarks when someone does ask a question, then perhaps your positions is untenable

don't fall off that high horse

 

[7seasrekeyed]

View attachment 200477

well that is what is needed

an existentialist reflecting on his own life and what he made of it

while pushing Marxism on the masses. stop the world I want to get off

 

[Stranger36147]

well that is what is needed

an existentialist reflecting on his own life and what he made of it

while pushing Marxism on the masses. stop the world I want to get off

I was just trying to provide some humor, that's all....

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I was just trying to provide some humor, that's all....

couldn't tell from your post

no problem

 

[Dino246]

This thread is a train wreck. It isn't the first, and it won't be the last.

Anyone for more popcorn while the credits roll?

 

[Stranger36147]

Anyone for more popcorn while the credits roll?

Okay, you asked for it....

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The lake of fire is called the Second Death. If we die now we go to heaven or paradise as Christ would call it in another place.
But what happens when you die a second time ? You don't go to another place. You stop existing .
At the Eternity : You either have eternal life. Or you don't . The bible teaches this If you can wrap your mind around how figures of speech are used in the Bible.
[…]
The Lake of Fire is a blotting out of ones soul from existence . That is the second death.
And there can't be any recovery from it because its forever .

What you seem to be doing, is defining "the Second Death" in the same way "death" (the first one) is defined. I think you are mistaken on this point.


1 Corinthians 15:26 -

"The last enemy to be abolished [G2673 rendered entirely idle / inoperative] is death."

2673 katargéō (from 2596 /katá, "down to a point," intensifying 691 /argéō, "inactive, idle") – properly, idle down, rendering something inert ("completely inoperative"); i.e. being of no effect (totally without force, completely brought down); done away with, cause to cease and therefore abolish; make invalid, abrogate (bring to nought); "to make idle or inactive" (so also in Euripides, Phoen., 753, Abbott-Smith).

["2673 (katargéō) means 'to make completely inoperative' or 'to put out of use,' according to TDNT (1.453)" (J. Rodman Williams, Renewal Theology "God, the World & Redemption," 389).]

[quoted from Bible Hub ^ ]



"Hell/Hades" is where there was still "time" for others to go to the brothers of the rich man, to warn them from "coming to this place of torment"... Not so with the latter punishment [GWTj; at the time spoken of above, where Rev20:14 says, "And death and Hades [/hell] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." So, here, "death" and "hell/hades" were cast into the lake of fire... here is where "the last enemy, death" is "rendered completely inoperative"... that is, no one will ever be dying/experiencing death [as we understand the word] again... and since "the sea gave up the dead...," and "death and hell/hades delivered up the dead..." and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire [and 'death' has now been rendered completely inoperative], there is no escaping it [LOF] by means of death. [it has been rendered completely inoperative, at this point in the chronology]. This is the place of existence for those cast into it; and just like v.10 speaks of (there, in v.10, regarding Satan, the beast, and the false prophet), the existence of it is "unto the ages of the ages" i.e. forever and ever/eternal... no escaping it by means of "death" (as we understand the term), for IT has been "abolished"]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well the burden of proof is on you, since you were the one making the claims. So sorry to break it to you, but you do have to defend it. At the moment, you've proven nothing. All you've done is try to slither away whenever people try to reason with you because you lack the basic scriptural understanding to debate. I'm not sure if you are a man of God because if you were, you would understand scripture.

And sorry, your line of reasoning doesn't wash with me, I've come from a JW background, so you're not going to try and use that kind of talk with me. I see through it.

Wow! Praise be to God that He brought you out of that false teaching! Since I have moved here to Lake Havasu I have had a lot of experience with the JW's, because they always come to my door. As I am sure that you know, they come at you quoting all kinds of scriptures while claiming that they don't want to change what you believe. But I interrupt them and just cut to what is important, which is who Jesus is and that because they believe that He is a created being, that He is Michael the archangel incarnate. As though a created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind? It is written "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! And this is definitely another gospel. The Mormon's also believe that Jesus is a created being, being the spirit brother to Lucifer. Jesus once asked His disciples "who do the people say I am?" And the disciples replied "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.” And Jesus said, "but who do you say that I am," meaning that the other answers are all wrong and which is also the case for the JW's and Mormon's both. Regarding the Mormon's, their mantra is "as man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become." It seems that the desire to become God is the same thing that caused Satan's fall.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Another thought to add to my last post:


1 Timothy 6:9-19 [note how the words "ruin [G3639 - olethros/olethron]" and "destruction [G684 - apoleian (from G622 - apollymi)]" are used in this context]

9 But those desiring to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge men into ruin [G3639 - olethron] and destruction [G684 - apoleian] [this, in the here and now!]. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils, which some, stretching after, have been seduced away from the faith and have pierced themselves with many sorrows.

Fight the Good Fight

11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Lay hold of the eternal life to which you were called [again, in the here and now! (note: this is not saying "work for salvation, in order to obtain it")], and also did confess the good confession before many witnesses.


"destruction" (and "ruin") here did not mean "obliteration" (cessation of being). The context here does not demand such an idea. Nor in the passages under discussion.



Here's another to consider: 1 Timothy 5:6 (in the instruction regarding Care of Widows), "But she living in self-indulgence is dead while living." [this would pertain to a person's "mind, will, emotions" (i.e. soul), not the death of their physical bodies, here in this verse, of course]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are already trying to label me ? are you sure you are not from some off belief that you must silence people who study the bible, and even stop my encouraging others to do so themselves ; so instead confusion can flourish ? like is that appropriate for a believer ?

and you should actually learn the bible first yourself before trying to exclaim to others you know it best . To people who actually know it . because those who know dont attack people in their ignorance. My belief is not from any church. its from the Bible. You three are really full of yourself. And thats not good. But i defended myself and thats it . The bible is not meant for debate.

But i dont apologize for Gods word. you accept it or dont. thats between you and God. not me.

You have to know Gods word before you can teach it my friend

 

[NotmebutHim]

Just like some video games; the longer you shoot at your opponent/enemy, the redder/darker/angrier it becomes.

Barging into this forum with a sledgehammer won't win you any friends.

 

[Dino246]

I kinda wonder why a bunch of Christians would argue about the nature of a place to which we aren't going.

 

[garee]

A small study help for people interested in making their own study of it . I recommend a dictionary of the Bible, concordance specifically like the Strong's . Then you can do a more thorough study into more passages.

The Bible teaches at times in metaphor or figurative language ; like about Hell. The English translation of words from Greek and Hebrew in the Bible doesn't always convey the meaning or give a answer on its own . More so if you go strictly off the English in some cases it can be a negative without closer inspection .

You have to know what The bible says overall and Christ's teachings on any given subject to know what the bible says yourself .

When we're talking about the Final Judgment ; After the Lords Day in Revelation 20 :
That's a time element for when "hell" actually happens.

But currently when a person dies as Christ teaches in His parable of The rich man and Lazarus; they go to heaven on either side of a divide between them.

The Rich man asked for water to cool his tongue from his torment in the flames ; should call to mind that fact Water symbolizes Eternal life Christ gives : That is what The rich man was in fact asking for , what at that point was too late to obtain .
This would torment any person faced with that reality .



The word Torment in Greek means to to test metal for its worth . By analogy its torment .
The rich man's life was found lacking whats required to be on that side of victory with Lazarus . Eternal Life .

What happens after The Lords Day written of in Revelation 20? This is really called the Lake of Fire.
The final judgment of God Judges for those who don't make it at the end .

The lake of fire is called the Second Death. If we die now we go to heaven or paradise as Christ would call it in another place.
But what happens when you die a second time ? You don't go to another place. You stop existing .

At the Eternity : You either have eternal life. Or you don't . The bible teaches this If you can wrap your mind around how figures of speech are used in the Bible.

So the struggle many have is with understanding language .Example the torment forever and ever. weeping and gnashing of teeth ; etc .
Mistakenly perceiving a meteor ; read as literal word for word; is how new doctrines spread and become mainstream traditions .
While missing the entire original thought God gave .

The Greek meaning for the word Torment is " touch stone " . This would be foreign to someone Not taught that the apostles didnt reference English when they studied the OT or when they wrote down what they have been taught and witnessed.


The Lake of Fire is a blotting out of ones soul from existence . That is the second death.
And there can't be any recovery from it because its forever .

One really good verse to understand all the figurative language used about hell or the lake of fire ; is Psalms 37.
This while using a figure, is more plain to understand .


Psalms 37:18

The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.


So the whats the opposite of Perish ?


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life.


Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


These verses establish what Christ is teaching and talking about . So when read the other passages you should more readily recognize the figures of speech being used in the Greek or Hebrew .

I would offer from another perspective. Hell is the suffering we experience in theses bodies of death. . . . born into of a corrupted creation that suffers or moan to be clothed with the incorruptible . . . . The wrath of God. . being revealed in a dying creation.

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Believers receive rest being yoked with Christ. This is when they mix what they hear with the faith that comes from hearing God called walking by faith. Un believers receive no sabbath rest or a future hope...not mixing faith the unseen eternal .Their walk or understanding is limited to what the eyes see, the temporal. Our future hope is our new incorruptible bodies. No one has received that it will occur in the twinkling of the eye on the last day.

According to what I would call the foundation of the doctrine of suffering. Cain is the first recorded person to suffer the pangs of hell with no sabbath rest . He remained a restless wanderer his whole life. I would think the immediate death penalty did not fits the crime of murdering the first martyr, Abel. God protected his word and kept men for having vengeance on Cain. In effect he said; mark my word do not stone Cain let him suffer the pangs of hell a living suffering with no rest from Christ.. or they would be stoned .It was like he put a hedge around him to show who makes his word ring true as a law or a principle.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. Genesis 4:4-8

Showing us he had no belief in a God not seen but walked by sight...out of sight out of mind. Kill the misperceive competition. The sign of no faith that could please God.

And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?Genesis 4:9

"I know not". . . . keeping in mind the father of lies the spirit of the antichrist.>>>

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.Genesis 4:10-11

And now art thou cursed from the earth, "the beginning of the increase of corruption, less yield …..more labor." live to eat, work to eat, eat to live.

And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.Genesis 4:13

What was needed that could bear was one's labor of love . . . that only Jesus as eternal God could bear... and did for Abel whose blood cries out from the dust for the incorruptible new body as the bride of Christ the church.. .

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Genesis 4:14-16

The mark 666 confirming he is a unbeliever he was the suffering without the rest which is associated with God's people. Cain had no desire to be with the people of God

Continued.....

 

[garee]

Then as the two signs to be compared to each other as the last sign as a wonder. It was fulfilled in the new testament parable in Mathew, one of the new testament places . In both cases we can see the living work of suffering referred to as hell in Jonah . Crying out for strength to finish the work of a living suffering.

…………..

By reason of mine affliction is that which ties the spiritual understand of one parable to another .Called faith to faith. the gospel

By reason of mine affliction. Defines the word hell.

Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Matthew 26:37-39 King James Version (KJV)And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The work of the father and Son working together in perfect harmony and submission bringing us the peace of God surpassing all human understanding. . the mystery of faith..

 

[dcontroversal]

I kinda wonder why a bunch of Christians would argue about the nature of a place to which we aren't going.

Because we are to CONTEND for the faith <--system of teaching found in the word of God and this subject is found IN THE WORD OF GOD

 

[Magenta]

Because we are to CONTEND for the faith <--system of teaching found in the word of God and this subject is found IN THE WORD OF GOD

Also to warn those who do not believe, what the end result of their rejection of God is to be in the final analysis

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 9:10

 

[Gift1982]

Jesus said that hell is to destroy the soul. I posted the verse. alot of people here are tying to be scripture lawyers. And do not accept the bible. I do not believe that God tortures people in hell forever.
God never said that and Jesus never taught that .Instead said the soul is destroyed. Many here claiming to know the bible, just being taught by ignorant people, just ignore Jesus that and stick to a bad doctrinal view that people are going to burn literally and you make up reasons not even given in the bible.




John 3:16
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



This is Jesus teaching plainly . And the other passages are figures of speech. its that simple . The entire Bible constantly says the lake of fire is to kill the soul over an over again in many places. If you want to twist the bible go ahead. i dont care that is not my problem its between you and God. But i dont want to argue with people who are so careless with the bible .

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said that hell is to destroy the soul. I posted the verse. alot of people here are tying to be scripture lawyers. And do not accept the bible. I do not believe that God tortures people in hell forever.
God never said that and Jesus never taught that .Instead said the soul is destroyed. Many here claiming to know the bible, just being taught by ignorant people, just ignore Jesus that and stick to a bad doctrinal view that people are going to burn literally and you make up reasons not even given in the bible.




John 3:16
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



This is Jesus teaching plainly . And the other passages are figures of speech. its that simple . The entire Bible constantly says the lake of fire is to kill the soul over an over again in many places. If you want to twist the bible go ahead. i dont care that is not my problem its between you and God. But i dont want to argue with people who are so careless with the bible .

Are you still whine baggin.....and you never did answer the question even though we can tell by your dogma....

Are you a JW?