Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

You caught the gist of my questions: they all focus on the physical. That's exactly what the Judaizers did in Paul's day; they didn't get that, in Christ, we are free from the Law. It is no longer our schoolmaster, because we are complete in Christ. Turning back to the Law to "work towards perfection" is what Paul addressed in Galatians 3:3, and he wasn't advocating it.

Those who advocate obedience to specific parts of the Law (Sabbath, tithing, special foods, etc.) for any reason are focused on the wrong thing and are effectively treating the finished work of Jesus as unfinished.

To answer your earlier question, the Law stays where it is; unfulfilled for those who don't believe in Christ. For those who do, it is part of Scripture, useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

When you say we are complete in Christ, what does that mean as far as the daily walk? Are there any guides or laws at all? Are there any sins ever committed? Is there repentance? Are you in a continual state of clean? Verily, Verily I say to you, I don't know where you all stand. Is it possible to answer these questions with a yes or no, because if it is I would really be appreciative.

 

[Dino246]

When you say we are complete in Christ, what does that mean as far as the daily walk? Are there any guides or laws at all? Are there any sins ever committed? Is there repentance? Are you in a continual state of clean? Verily, Verily I say to you, I don't know where you all stand. Is it possible to answer these questions with a yes or no, because if it is I would really be appreciative.

The guide is the indwelling Holy Spirit. He changes my motivations from the inside out so that I am increasingly inclined to do God's will and turn away from sin. Of course there are sins committed; that's what continual repentance and growing in maturity are about. When the Holy Spirit makes me aware of the danger of pending sin, or of a sin already committed, I deal with it.

Our daily walk with Christ should be, increasingly, one of communicating about everything, as an older child would with a much-loved parent. If all the walk entails is repentance and asking forgiveness because we failed to keep some law, we're missing out.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The guide is the indwelling Holy Spirit. He changes my motivations from the inside out so that I am increasingly inclined to do God's will and turn away from sin. Of course there are sins committed; that's what continual repentance and growing in maturity are about. When the Holy Spirit makes me aware of the danger of pending sin, or of a sin already committed, I deal with it.

Our daily walk with Christ should be, increasingly, one of communicating about everything, as an older child would with a much-loved parent. If all the walk entails is repentance and asking forgiveness because we failed to keep some law, we're missing out.

Hey Dino,

Help me out with a basic question. I'm sincere when I ask if in your description above, which I agree with, what are you calling sin?

Thank You

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do brother, but we should look at ourselves more than others. Me too!

Well you seem focused on me for some reason. And not saying a word to those who agree with you who are doing the very things you accuse me of.. And even more (deflecting questions)

That is fishy some may say

 

[Dino246]

Hey Dino,

Help me out with a basic question. I'm sincere when I ask if in your description above, which I agree with, what are you calling sin?

Thank You

Anything that is not of faith (Romans 14:23).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The guide is the indwelling Holy Spirit. He changes my motivations from the inside out so that I am increasingly inclined to do God's will and turn away from sin. Of course there are sins committed; that's what continual repentance and growing in maturity are about. When the Holy Spirit makes me aware of the danger of pending sin, or of a sin already committed, I deal with it.

Our daily walk with Christ should be, increasingly, one of communicating about everything, as an older child would with a much-loved parent. If all the walk entails is repentance and asking forgiveness because we failed to keep some law, we're missing out.

Amen, Seeking to love others more. And self less.

Thats the key to Christian growth. With Jesus as the prime example.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anything that is not of faith (Romans 14:23).

I would add. Anything with “self in mind

Ie. two people could can the same act. One an act of love, the other an act of sin (self motivated)

 

[SimpleGardner]

Amen, Seeking to love others more. And self less.

Thats the key to Christian growth. With Jesus as the prime example.

I can't disagree with that, except to add Loving God more too. So not coveting your neighbors wife would be not of faith right? Please explain how that would not be of faith. I would appreciate hearing your explanation. Thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can't disagree with that, except to add Loving God more too. So not coveting your neighbors wife would be not of faith right? Please explain how that would not be of faith. I would appreciate hearing your explanation. Thanks

A person focused on others and not self would never even think nor be tempted of doing this. He would only covet if he was thinking of self. Which is sin in itself. Let alone the coveting.

Thats why the law is useless. One who is focused on the spirit would never need it.

 

[Dino246]

I would add. Anything with “self in mind

Ie. two people could can the same act. One an act of love, the other an act of sin (self motivated)

Your example works, but your addition doesn't. I feed my self. I take care of my self. I clothe my self. Y'all can be thankful for that!

I understand what you mean though; always putting self above others isn't consistent with Christian faith. Caring for ourselves so that we can help others is, and occasionally it is appropriate to do things sacrificially unto God, for the benefit of others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your example works, but your addition doesn't. I feed my self. I take care of my self. I clothe my self. Y'all can be thankful for that!

I understand what you mean though; always putting self above others isn't consistent with Christian faith. Caring for ourselves so that we can help others is, and occasionally it is appropriate to do things sacrificially unto God, for the benefit of others.

Well true,, but if you put that above others. It becomes an act of the flesh, Thanks though for making it more clear.

 

[SimpleGardner]

A person focused on others and not self would never even think nor be tempted of doing this. He would only covet if he was thinking of self. Which is sin in itself. Let alone the coveting.

Thats why the law is useless. One who is focused on the spirit would never need it.

I agree with everything except that the Law is useless. The Spirit points to the Law. Just as Dino pointed out in post#1280 where he says like Paul does that the Law is useful for instruction in righteousness among the other thinks listed.

Without a written law to guide us we meet over an infraction with nothing but what is in our Hearts and discuss the matter. Then, as now, we would all have differing opinions! Hence the other aspects of the scripture; rebuking, doctrine, correction. Without the law you have no guidance. Do Calvanists have a list to do this by aside from scripture?

 

[TamLynn]

The guide is the indwelling Holy Spirit. He changes my motivations from the inside out so that I am increasingly inclined to do God's will and turn away from sin. Of course there are sins committed; that's what continual repentance and growing in maturity are about. When the Holy Spirit makes me aware of the danger of pending sin, or of a sin already committed, I deal with it.

Our daily walk with Christ should be, increasingly, one of communicating about everything, as an older child would with a much-loved parent. If all the walk entails is repentance and asking forgiveness because we failed to keep some law, we're missing out.

Made me think of this...

 

[SimpleGardner]

If you would do a study of Genesis Ch1 the first three verses are very telling. First the darkness in vs 2 is referring to a condition of chaos/lawlessness. The literal translation says the earth had "BECOME" without form and void. and darkness/chaos had ensued.

The word in vs t H216 which is translated "light" is literally translated "order". Jesus correlated Himself with the "Light of the world" He also was the giver of the law! There is evidence that the law existed from the beginning, but that's another study. Could there be a correlation between actual light and the law? Why were the "dark ages" called the dark ages. They were recorded to have been a "lawless" period of history. Was the word "dark" only in reference to the level of Chaos/Order? Perhaps. Either way the scripture and history both record times of chaos as darkness and times of Lawfulness/order as times of great light.

So, while this is a general statement of darkness vs Light and chaos vs Order and lawlessness vs Lawfulness the theme components are there for one to review an marvel over if they so choose. For anyone to espouse a time where there is no governing "law" from which to order a mans steps or from which to govern a people would be to invite chaos. Our own country, the USA was essentially a nation whose framework was "ordered"/"patterned" after that of "The Law" While we were strict adherents to this framework we were a "Christian Nation" the more we deviate from it the more chaos ensues! So to propose less adherence to the "Laws" or "Order" established for mankind and the planet in general leaves us open to chaos.

Does this mean that men filled with Gods Holy Spirit do not need the Laws/Commandments of God? I would say NO! They do need the Laws. Why would;

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

reference the commandments of God if all He needed to say was "here are they that followed the leading of the Holy Spirit in selfless love"? Probably because that is too nebulous, open for interpretation! our God is a god of Order and His order is defined. Can a man be led by love to keep the law? YES! But can that determination be made without the Law? No!

 

[SimpleGardner]

Made me think of this...
View attachment 200968

Cute

 

[lightbearer]

I would add. Anything with “self in mind

Ie. two people could can the same act. One an act of love, the other an act of sin (self motivated)

Nice... But would add


Ie. two people could can do the same act. One an act of love through GOD's Spirit, the other an act of sin (self motivated) without GOD's Spirit.

 

[lightbearer]

If you would do a study of Genesis Ch1 the first three verses are very telling. First the darkness in vs 2 is referring to a condition of chaos/lawlessness. The literal translation says the earth had "BECOME" without form and void. and darkness/chaos had ensued.

The word in vs t H216 which is translated "light" is literally translated "order". Jesus correlated Himself with the "Light of the world" He also was the giver of the law! There is evidence that the law existed from the beginning, but that's another study. Could there be a correlation between actual light and the law? Why were the "dark ages" called the dark ages. They were recorded to have been a "lawless" period of history. Was the word "dark" only in reference to the level of Chaos/Order? Perhaps. Either way the scripture and history both record times of chaos as darkness and times of Lawfulness/order as times of great light.

So, while this is a general statement of darkness vs Light and chaos vs Order and lawlessness vs Lawfulness the theme components are there for one to review an marvel over if they so choose. For anyone to espouse a time where there is no governing "law" from which to order a mans steps or from which to govern a people would be to invite chaos. Our own country, the USA was essentially a nation whose framework was "ordered"/"patterned" after that of "The Law" While we were strict adherents to this framework we were a "Christian Nation" the more we deviate from it the more chaos ensues! So to propose less adherence to the "Laws" or "Order" established for mankind and the planet in general leaves us open to chaos.

Does this mean that men filled with Gods Holy Spirit do not need the Laws/Commandments of God? I would say NO! They do need the Laws. Why would;

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

reference the commandments of God if all He needed to say was "here are they that followed the leading of the Holy Spirit in selfless love"? Probably because that is too nebulous, open for interpretation! our God is a god of Order and His order is defined. Can a man be led by love to keep the law? YES! But can that determination be made without the Law? No!

Amen my friend! We went from keeping the word out a sense of duty to being the word through Christ indwelling. Christ in you the hope of glory.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. SO Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Heb 8:10; Rom 10:6-8 KJV)


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Joh 17:1-3 KJV)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nice... But would add


Ie. two people could can do the same act. One an act of love through GOD's Spirit, the other an act of sin (self motivated) without GOD's Spirit.

I will give an example. You have two people. Both are saved. Both have Gods spirit.

God has placed in front of them a young lady who needs served.

Both serve the lady, And the lady is blessed

Person number 1 does it unselfishly out of love, with no thought of wanting anything in return, his blessing is his giving

Person number 2 did not really want to do it. But felt it was his obligation. And made sure everyone around him knew this work he had done to puff himself up. And sought after his own glory.

Person number 1 gave honor and glory to God.

Person number 2 boasted and sought his own glory, which is sin of self righteousness.

Both did the exact same act. But one did it in sin, while the other did it in love, as led by the spirit.

Yet both had the HS..

Even a believer can do a morally good act being obedient to God yet do it in sin was my point. One could say He followed the law. And did what the law required in that act of giving, Yet did it in sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with everything except that the Law is useless. The Spirit points to the Law. Just as Dino pointed out in post#1280 where he says like Paul does that the Law is useful for instruction in righteousness among the other thinks listed.

Without a written law to guide us we meet over an infraction with nothing but what is in our Hearts and discuss the matter. Then, as now, we would all have differing opinions! Hence the other aspects of the scripture; rebuking, doctrine, correction. Without the law you have no guidance. Do Calvanists have a list to do this by aside from scripture?

The spirit does nto have to point to the law. Do I am sorry I disagree. The spirit points to serving, and giving. He does not need to point to the moral code
People can follow the moral code. And still be in sin (see my last post)

As paul said, He lived his life with no sin apart from the law. When the law came, Sin became evident and he died. This is what leads us to christ, because we can no longer excuse our sin.

But once we come to Christ. The moral code or law has completed its job as a convicting agent whose purpose was to act as a schoolmaster and take us by the hand to Christ. It is no longer useful, At best it can make us saved pharisees who think we are morally good because we obey the letter. Puffing ourselves up and trying to take credit.

The HS puts us in places where we need to serve. And he just says go serve. The law can not help us do this service. What helps is we take Gods unfailing unending love given to us, and share that overflowing love with those people.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The spirit does nto have to point to the law. Do I am sorry I disagree. The spirit points to serving, and giving. He does not need to point to the moral code
People can follow the moral code. And still be in sin (see my last post)

As paul said, He lived his life with no sin apart from the law. When the law came, Sin became evident and he died. This is what leads us to christ, because we can no longer excuse our sin.

But once we come to Christ. The moral code or law has completed its job as a convicting agent whose purpose was to act as a schoolmaster and take us by the hand to Christ. It is no longer useful, At best it can make us saved pharisees who think we are morally good because we obey the letter. Puffing ourselves up and trying to take credit.

The HS puts us in places where we need to serve. And he just says go serve. The law can not help us do this service. What helps is we take Gods unfailing unending love given to us, and share that overflowing love with those people.

Hey EG, I haven't read anything up to this point, but I figured you were leaving for your rest week in Michigan. Be safe, be well and I hope you will work on those three verses with me. Helps to have someone else doing it at the same time. SG