Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Yet, What is faith without them?
Show me your faith without works
and I show you my faith with works.
Yep faith produce good work

Work is the fruit of faith

Good work not produce salvation but salvation produce good work
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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True, He wrote those for men in the flesh bodies. I never said it was a sin against God. But no, your body does not just select the important stuff and discard the rest or else drugs and alcohol and sugar etc would never be absorbed. I am not judging. Just giving out information.
God has explained why the law was written, it is to bring sin to the fore just like the constitution in your country brings out the lawlessness in people; if it is not written and declared to you, then everything is lawful because you do not know- but most importantly is being obedient to a command from an authority.
The OT is more of a constitution but also a prophesy not to be kept but fulfilled.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Not faith + works. Faith with works.
Saving faith in Christ is established first, then works are produced out of faith motivated by love. (Ephesians 2:5-10; Galatians 5:6) Don’t put the cart before the horse.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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God has explained why the law was written, it is to bring sin to the fore just like the constitution in your country brings out the lawlessness in people; if it is not written and declared to you, then everything is lawful because you do not know- but most importantly is being obedient to a command from an authority.
The OT is more of a constitution but also a prophesy not to be kept but fulfilled.
I myself believe differently in that God created a living earth and a living body and animals for each and that is ok if you see it a different way. I sure hope you can respect me and my take also.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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Saving faith in Christ is established first, then works are produced out of faith motivated by love. (Ephesians 2:5-10; Galatians 5:6) Don’t put the cart before the horse.
Why would anyone do works if they didn't have faith? That doesn't make any sense.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
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That is like telling some one" Here is a gift of a million dollars" and you saying," no don't give me that gift till I work for it".
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Why would anyone do works if they didn't have faith? That doesn't make any sense.
There are many people out doing works who don’t have saving faith in Christ, although they have “mental assent” belief in Christ. Just look at all the false religions and cults in the world that even claim to be Christian.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yep faith produce good work

Work is the fruit of faith

Good work not produce salvation but salvation produce good work
Except that if salvation is not secure how do we know if they are works of faith or works for salvation?

Good works only come from the assurance of salvation.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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We are talking about faith in Christ.
Muslims do works without faith in Christ.
I know almost nothing about any religion. I would say nothing but there are a few things I have pick up but what goes to whom I have not a clue. As soon as I am done learning the bible I will start learning how the world it doing their thing. Biggest problem I am having is the more I am learning about the Word of God the more I am realizing I know nothing.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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Except that if salvation is not secure how do we know if they are works of faith or works for salvation?

Good works only come from the assurance of salvation.
But you can't work for salvation, you know that.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
There are many people out doing works who don’t have saving faith in Christ, although they have “mental assent” belief in Christ. Just look at all the false religions and cults in the world that even claim to be Christian.
I missed the segue into false religions. Sorry
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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I know almost nothing about any religion. I would say nothing but there are a few things I have pick up but what goes to whom I have not a clue. As soon as I am done learning the bible I will start learning how the world it doing their thing. Biggest problem I am having is the more I am learning about the Word of God the more I am realizing I know nothing.
Ok then, this other example is closer.
The Pharisees during Jesus' time did works without faith in Christ.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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Except that if salvation is not secure how do we know if they are works of faith or works for salvation?

Good works only come from the assurance of salvation.
Jesus did many good works even asking the Pharisees of which good work they wanted to stone him for, were these good works born of faith or love?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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Ok then, this other example is closer.
The Pharisees during Jesus' time did works without faith in Christ.
No new covenant yet and I still have an issue with the wise men knowing Jesus was born, even Herod knowing Jesus was born , but all "His people?" missed it. Yeah, they had issues all over the place. I think that was the height of the hypocrisy, my opinion But Christians born today have never even read the OT (from what I see), let alone follow it. They were born with "salvation through Christ" in the NT.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
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Jesus did many good works even asking the Pharisees of which good work they wanted to stone him for, were these good works born of faith or love?
But how do they apply to those born with the NT? 2000 yrs later?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,335
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Exactly!

Those works are as filthy rags.
Have you looked into the Hebrew as to the word translated “filthy rags?”
It’s an interesting term and implies “death” more so than filth. A better translation is that our works/ deeds ( human effort) are considered “dead works” by God.