Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Something to be said concerning:
Deuteronomy 5
32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.
This analogy was also described by someone, Post Human, I think, as riding a bus that goes from the left side (spirit), into "the ditch", or (and) the right side (flesh), into "the ditch." Whichever "side?" A "ditch?" Is still a "ditch."
Numbers 20
17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.
Psalm 23
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
This "Fearing of No Evil?" Is not any indication at all, that one should frolic along without a care in the world. Becoming oblivious (blinded) to the "subtle nuances" of "death" lurking on either side of the believer's "path." When each side proclaims peaceful passagings. Although, the "peace" being proclaimed? Is actually? A "PIECE"FUL passing through!"
GRANTED, that "love" does cover a multitude of "ditch riding." Whichever side, or both sides of the ditch one has "spread" oneself in one's attempt at justifying one's passaging/s, in this manner. (aka "law of love")
Trouble is? Love only goes SO far, without the REST of the "Fruit of the Spirit", (notice...NOT "law of love"), in "CLOSE abidence!"
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: One MUST allow the Lord of the Harvest in the accomplishing His work, and not be, nor become oblivious!
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Elstwise?
Isaiah 28
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
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Somehow was cut off from finishing my post....Here's the rest
To clarify though that our walk beyond that point guided by the Holy Spirit is the narrow path that leadeth to Life! This path is where the Holy Spirit changes us "precept upon precept, line upon line" is a good way to frame it! As we continue to keep the old man on the cross and allow the New Creation to gain full dominion we become "Christ Like" We take on the Righteousness of Christ and the byproduct is a new understanding through the Spirit of Gods Word/Scripture/Law!
To clarify though that our walk beyond that point guided by the Holy Spirit is the narrow path that leadeth to Life! This path is where the Holy Spirit changes us "precept upon precept, line upon line" is a good way to frame it! As we continue to keep the old man on the cross and allow the New Creation to gain full dominion we become "Christ Like" We take on the Righteousness of Christ and the byproduct is a new understanding through the Spirit of Gods Word/Scripture/Law!
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exactly when the new covenant was initiated is a really interesting question that i don't feel qualified to answer - the most common view i've heard is the moment He died, which is usually expressed in an argument over the thief on the cross beside Him, centering around whether this man died under the new or the old covenant, in an attempt to defend baptismal regeneration or some other related point. but i think, Christ forgave sin without blood sacrifice while He was walking with us, which is 'non-Sinai-covenant' kind of thing to do -- although David's sin was "removed" without any atonement by the Law, too. so it's complicated. but it's tangential --
i don't see how any of the tribes were exempted from the covenant while the rest were still bound by it. when it was made it was with all of them, not some, so the answer to you question is either all, or none, and only none if that covenant was done away with before the infant Christ began to walk. i don't know that i've ever heard anyone give the position that the new covenant supplanted the old as soon as Jesus was born ((think i see facts that are strong objections to it already hmm)) -- so i'd have to say, all of them were still under the Sinai covenant while He was among us.
which explains why He told the rich young ruler who didn't believe He is God to keep the commandments, and live. because that is the Law of the covenant this man - not having faith in Christ but in 'what works must i do?' - was under.
i don't see how any of the tribes were exempted from the covenant while the rest were still bound by it. when it was made it was with all of them, not some, so the answer to you question is either all, or none, and only none if that covenant was done away with before the infant Christ began to walk. i don't know that i've ever heard anyone give the position that the new covenant supplanted the old as soon as Jesus was born ((think i see facts that are strong objections to it already hmm)) -- so i'd have to say, all of them were still under the Sinai covenant while He was among us.
which explains why He told the rich young ruler who didn't believe He is God to keep the commandments, and live. because that is the Law of the covenant this man - not having faith in Christ but in 'what works must i do?' - was under.
Well, what I was asking was how Satan being on his way, in your view, affected how we keep the law.
What I'm hearing, is that in your view, Satan and his angels are still in heaven at this moment. But because it is a very brief time, maybe a few days or a few months, before Satan will be kicked out of heaven, then because of that we need to follow the moral parts of the law of Moses. And we need to follow them to the letter, not just the general idea behind them.
Am I understanding what you are saying right?
What I'm hearing, is that in your view, Satan and his angels are still in heaven at this moment. But because it is a very brief time, maybe a few days or a few months, before Satan will be kicked out of heaven, then because of that we need to follow the moral parts of the law of Moses. And we need to follow them to the letter, not just the general idea behind them.
Am I understanding what you are saying right?
Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Colossians 2:6-12 NASB
Colossians 2:6-12 NASB
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Agreed!
And, this becomes an heated issue/s from time to time, not only in the BDF, but, also in "churches of stone."
Comes with the territory, in venues such as this, as one can only discern "maturity", from the reflective information of one's posts.
One can only show faith by their works (meaning inwardly overcoming), in written form, as indicative of "Spiritual Maturation."
The heatedness comes when "Grace" becomes confused with "efforts", or "works" towards being, and becoming "Joint Heirs" WITH (not IN....WITH!) Christ!
Priests OF Jesus Christ!
Priests OF God, AND Jesus Christ!
Priests AFTER the Order of Melchizadek!
For THIS, is where Salvation "changes" FROM "everlasting", TO "FOREVER!" (line upon line. Precept upon precept. Here a little? THERE, a little.)
This is the "crux of the biscuit", the Apostles and Disciples were "attempting" to teach, in the whole of the N.T.
WITHOUT getting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Or, putting TOO MUCH a burden upon them, as to offend? For the "teachers" in the N.T. had ALREADY been "changed" from everlasting TO Eternal! Trying to "teach" the church in becoming the SAME as THEY!
And? If these were "those" days? When Christ Jesus had "freshly ascended" back to The Father in Heaven? And "the Church", was a "newborn?"
Then, yes! I would be typing out posts in a "similar" fashion!
But? It's not! (and) It isn't!
But, don't ask me! Ask the Lord of the Harvest!
2,000+ Years? C'mon People!
(lol) Yanno? I see a lotta people proclaim: "I've read the "back of the Book", and God wins!"
And, then? There's this:
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
And, this becomes an heated issue/s from time to time, not only in the BDF, but, also in "churches of stone."
Comes with the territory, in venues such as this, as one can only discern "maturity", from the reflective information of one's posts.
One can only show faith by their works (meaning inwardly overcoming), in written form, as indicative of "Spiritual Maturation."
The heatedness comes when "Grace" becomes confused with "efforts", or "works" towards being, and becoming "Joint Heirs" WITH (not IN....WITH!) Christ!
Priests OF Jesus Christ!
Priests OF God, AND Jesus Christ!
Priests AFTER the Order of Melchizadek!
For THIS, is where Salvation "changes" FROM "everlasting", TO "FOREVER!" (line upon line. Precept upon precept. Here a little? THERE, a little.)
This is the "crux of the biscuit", the Apostles and Disciples were "attempting" to teach, in the whole of the N.T.
WITHOUT getting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Or, putting TOO MUCH a burden upon them, as to offend? For the "teachers" in the N.T. had ALREADY been "changed" from everlasting TO Eternal! Trying to "teach" the church in becoming the SAME as THEY!
And? If these were "those" days? When Christ Jesus had "freshly ascended" back to The Father in Heaven? And "the Church", was a "newborn?"
Then, yes! I would be typing out posts in a "similar" fashion!
But? It's not! (and) It isn't!
But, don't ask me! Ask the Lord of the Harvest!
2,000+ Years? C'mon People!
(lol) Yanno? I see a lotta people proclaim: "I've read the "back of the Book", and God wins!"
And, then? There's this:
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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T'wasn't I who framed it. 
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.
As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.
As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
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Interesting/ thoughtful deliberation.
I am not trying to foul up the works with the question but the answer lies just a bit beyond the main detail noted in ;
Jer 3:8 NIV I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.
So, we know when the kingdom of Israel (all 13 tribes) were divided after Solomon died, the one kingdom split into two kingdoms; North and South. The Northern "Kingdom of Israel" and the Southern "Kingdom of Judah". After some time, God gave the Northern Kingdom a writ of divorcement and sent them out of His house. The Northern kingdom of Israel refused to obey her Husband (God), think Covenant, so He had Hosea do the legal paperwork for the divorce. He then had the Assyrians remove her out of His house.
So, The Northern Kingdom of Israel, made up of Reuben, Simeon, Part of Levi, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun and Manasseh and Ephraim who were adopted by Jacob and essentially are called out in place of Joseph....were they under covenant after the divorce? No. However the southern Kingdom of Judah was. That Kingdom was made up of Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi. This was the status when Jesus was here.
Understanding this is important.
Who were the lost sheep? The Northern Tribes
Who was the prodigal son? Judah was the brother who was jealous, who was with Him always.
Who did Jesus come for? The lost sheep of the House of Israel.
The implications of this detail in many of the issues in the NT are immense.
Who were the treasure hidden in the field (the world)?
There are also implications in the OT Law which God will not violate; such as when a man divorces a wife and she remarries he may never marry her again!
So how, under what conditions may God remarry the Northern Kingdom of Israel whom He divorced and who took other gods (remarried)?
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Maybe the better way to frame it so it is not offensive is that Christ is the "Spirit of the Law" and it is important to realize that the "Torah" or the "Written Law" contains the words but not the "Spirit of the Law"! The "Torah/Written Law" is good and Holy and Just, but without the "Spirit of the Law" it is incapable of reforming mens hearts. David was the anointed King of Israel" That anointing with a measure of The Holy Spirit allowed him to see the Torah and recognize the goodness, holiness, and justice with it! This is what we do now who are anointed with that same Holy Spirit. We see the beauty in it. We could not see this beauty unless and until we receive salvation through the unmerited justification given to those who are called by the Grace of God to receive this gift and that of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
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T'wasn't I who framed it.
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.
As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
But, you left out "here a little, there a little."
Here (again), is where a believer might well say: "Here!" "I'm done!" "There is no "their" THERE!" In a false absolving themselves from any further accountability, in pursuits of further Spiritual growth in the Father's "refining process."
I think there is an lack of "cognizance", of the "lateral movements", that occur WITHIN the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Which happens as the "old man" (on/in the cross of Christ), matures/refined, and starts "carrying" his OWN weight", so to speak.
As can be witnessed in some postings in this venue.
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Christ = love = law of love = reality of loving from the heart, with forgiveness, holiness and purity.
When you read the line above what do you think it means?
Somehow you have made the word law wrong and evil. How have you done this?
Do you desire lawlessness? Do you not know the son of lawlessness is the enemy of God?
How we follow love and how we fulfil the law are important questions, but lawlessness is not of God.
So you claim to know God yet do not know the law is Gods law, His heart, His path to His will.
If you are opposing walking in Gods ways, why is that? Which part of Gods ways are impossible or
you dislike and reject? If you cannot find any, then you do not oppose His heart and intentions.
The law is summarised in two things, Love God with all we are, and Love our neighbour as ourselves.
Is there a part of you which does not love God? Do you find you cannot love your neighbour as you love
yourself? We are along a path, and this path is Gods path, and being yoked to Him means we walk it.
God bless you.
When you read the line above what do you think it means?
Somehow you have made the word law wrong and evil. How have you done this?
Do you desire lawlessness? Do you not know the son of lawlessness is the enemy of God?
How we follow love and how we fulfil the law are important questions, but lawlessness is not of God.
So you claim to know God yet do not know the law is Gods law, His heart, His path to His will.
If you are opposing walking in Gods ways, why is that? Which part of Gods ways are impossible or
you dislike and reject? If you cannot find any, then you do not oppose His heart and intentions.
The law is summarised in two things, Love God with all we are, and Love our neighbour as ourselves.
Is there a part of you which does not love God? Do you find you cannot love your neighbour as you love
yourself? We are along a path, and this path is Gods path, and being yoked to Him means we walk it.
God bless you.
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