Not By Works

[CharliRenee]

Your style does not offend me as God calls all types as evidenced by the apostles, John the Baptist, Elijah etc.....what offends me is to imply or relegate the way some of make a stand to bickering, a lack of self control or some sort of street brawl...........

Yeah true, I can see that being offensive and demeaning, exemplifying an authority on your matters here, a know it all of sorts. I am not being shady or passive aggressive.

I shall ponder and examine what you just said, not just because you are one intimidating force to be reckoned with either, lol.

 

[star]

from somewhere deep in my soul there was a knowing that I was wrong in my unbelief. about 10 seconds later my eyes went black my hearing faded all senses were tuned out. There was no emotion from the heart there was no thought process. I became part of this love that was so beautiful that I know what Paul means when he says he has no right to try to justify it with words. Anyhow, there was no time frame and space was not exist. I was love and that's all there was. It was the most powerful and beautiful and wonderful thing I will probably ever experienced in this body.irie entered this room and by where she was in her conversation I was guessing it lasted about 30 to 45 seconds or so in this realm.
I looked at her as if she would speak on this strange thing that just happened. She had no clue. My first rational thought was wow! I got to have this woman! She does something to me!I ended up walking her to a detox center that night and getting back to the hotel around 6 a.m. to Brenda, Larry, and Dave, rising for employment search.
I explained my good deed to them and ask them to wake me around 11 and fill me in on where to drop some applications.
They left eye fell asleep.
a little after 11 I woke to Dave coming through the door alone. The very first thing on my mind was that I'd experience the night before. Instantaneously through my whole being it was made clear that it was from God. I was instantly washed clean so to speak of all the bad things that I had done to my family friend and everything else all that I was running from all that I hate in about myself in life was completely taken away. I became filled with extreme extreme ecstatic joy. Through subs of joy I can remember trying to tell Dave of the experience of the night before. I don't remember saying anything to him but I wasn't even asking God to come into my life or anything. I remember looking at his bald head what as he grabbed the Bible out of the dresser drawer and was looking down frantically searching for a scripture. You don't choose God he chooses you he said. I don't remember getting dressed or walking the few blocks towards downtown, but I do know then I was in the middle of the hustle and bustle of lunch hour. I was grabbing people by the shoulders spending people around crying and extreme joy and yelling there's a god there's a God for 30 years I've been missing that there's a god. I did not know it at the time but I was overflowing with the holy Spirit.that night in a bar I remember making the comment today that I think I was going to try to stop cussing that I don't think God likes cussing.
the drugs alcohol toxic relationships and traveling still had me by a nose ring.nothing changed but the fact that there was no possible way in my heart or so I could deny the existence of God. Six and a half years later through circumstances I'm skipping over I opened up the Bible which I had tried to open up many many times before and got nothing but flustered and pissed and my eyes were instantly open to understand it for the spiritual meaning behind it. I was in prison and I studied I could not not study for no exaggeration about 20 hours a day for about 10 months. God has given me everything that I have oh and by the way about 3 days into my opening of eye I still got down and ask God to come into my life because that's what I had been taught foolish me. But anyway the desire I have to not be able to read the Bible to love God for my face for every single thing that is holy in my life it has been poured out like a sister in into me I have received blessing after blessing after blessing as far as knowledge wisdom seal desire and love for in belief for God. I did not ask for none of this the one is the best thing that has ever happened to me there is no way I can say that I have any marriage to do with anything anything anything pertaining to my eternal destiny now you may see why I believe what I believe there is no doubt after all my studies and my testimony being read out to me through their New testament why I believe what I believe this was computing into my life and I believe that is without expectancy it is again if I fail to follow the earthly teachings of Jesus I will not have the spiritually abundant life but the spirit tells me nothing that I will do or anyone else can take or change my eternal destiny away. So I am once saved always saved individual I hope this explains why thisthis is a bag explanation of my full testimony but I hope you get the idea god bless you all I love you all Jesus name

Thank you for giving your story and your testimony. What a challenging life you have had. Yes, once saved is always saved. Our eternal salvation cannot be taken from us. Why? Because that free gift (no strings attached) was supplied by the Blood of Jesus Christ and no one nor anything can break His power.

Praise God from Whom all blessings flow.

 

[PS]

Please focus PS....

Our will does not give us eternal life... and our will cannot take it away either.

God is the giver of eternal life, but we have the free will to either accept or reject God's free gift of eternal life with Him.

 

[BillG]

Good question but i also have a question for you.

Q. Where does faith leave the little children? How are they saved or are they doomed because they don't understand?

You see, Christ came to save the world (whosoever) not to condemn it and He saves by love for He loved the world- not faith alonists.

Children and all those people who haven't been presented by the law (commandment to love)- basically, all who never hear of Christ (children/ disabled/ e.t.c) are saved by Christ because the law brings to the fore our sins, but in their case, there's no law so sin has no sting in them or rather is overcome by the works of God.

For the rest of us who have received the law and all the law is fulfilled in one commandment (love one another), sin is exposed and judgement abides unless we become one with the one who fulfilled the law. Becoming one with Him is knowing Him and knowing Him is loving one another the bible has said.

A muslim who has rejected Christ and His works of love and His command to love has no faith and therefore his works of love are futile.

John 14:15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

1 John 3:
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.

16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?

18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence: 20If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things.

For some reason I can't respond to individual points you raise.

It will now I have replied to your whole post.

So gonna see if I can now do that. Apologies to all if I mess up.

Before I do I'm assuming that the way you talk about the it's not the O.T as such but the law of love the golden rule.

Q. Where does faith leave the little children? How are they saved or are they doomed because they don't understand?

Saved by the blood of Jesus.

Children and all those people who haven't been presented by the law (commandment to love)- basically, all who never hear of Christ (children/ disabled/ e.t.c) are saved by Christ because the law brings to the fore our sins, but in their case, there's no law so sin has no sting in them or rather is overcome by the works of God.

You need to clarify e.t.c for me please.
Children, disabled, vulnerable people with no ability of comprehension saved by the blood of Jesus.

Those who have never heard of Jesus?
Now if I'm totally honest this I am stumped on.

I have researched it pondered over it.
In this day and age is there an excuse for people not knowing about Jesus.
Yes there is.
There are tyrannical governments that suppress it.
We know from mission work believers to to such countries willing to give up their lives.

There are remote areas that we don't know about.
Do they have an excuse?
I really don't know, the only thing I know is that I know what sin is because it's been revealed to me.

I think there are verses in the bible that says "No one is innocent"
Even those who have not heard of Jesus.

People often quote the following

Romans 1:20-21
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

As a reason as to those who have not heard of Jesus will be condemned.

Actually I don't go with that.
For the simple reason they will not know there is Godhead, but know that there is God.

I could be wrong and will be told so by others.

How can one confess with their mouths and believe in Jesus if they have not heard off him?

They cannot.

So all I can think is that such people if they seek to do good and love then they are saved.

Because even though they do not know Jesus they knew that there is God who wants us to do good.

That is different from those who have been told about Jesus but refuse him.

I hope I make some sense.

 

[BillG]

He is talking about us, if we don't love we are nothing, if we are nothing we can't talk about salvation either.

But do you agree that we have to grow in love?

With Jesus restoring Peter.

Jesus asked him twice do you love me. Do you Agape me?
Peter responded with I Phileo you.

3rd time Jesus asked "Do you Phileo me?

Peter gets upset "You know I do"

Jesus said "Feed my sheep"

That amazes me.
Jesus wants Agape love but accepts with our limited capacity to love.
In him, with him and through him we grow in this Agape love.

Peter did that and was killed for it.

Today we may not be killed for it but we die can die to it.
Set aside our Phileo love and seek Agape.
Not let our flesh rule but the heart of flesh rule.
That heart that God has given us.

 

[Smooth]

This much:

John 13:34A new commandment I give you:Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.

Thank you for your response. I don’t see love as being work; I see it as spiritual growth and maturity; the essence of God, hence the essence of who we are and who we become.

 

[Smooth]

Only 1.........the work of the Heavenly Father.....BELIEVE on HIM whom he hath SENT..........any embellishment beyond that = false

Amen, brother. To God be the glory!

 

[dcontroversal]

What do you mean; Jesus was a messenger.
Wake up smell the coffee and make faith great again.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD.....the power is in the message....

Wake up and smell the truth..............

 

[BillG]

Thank you for your response. I don’t see love as being work; I see it as spiritual growth and maturity; the essence of God, hence the essence of who we are and who we become.

In a sense it is a work.

It's not a work to love those that love you and vice versa.

But it is work to love those who are our enemies.
Jesus addressed this.

Matthew 5:44-48
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

And yes as you say it leads to spiritual growth.

 

[VCO]

Not only do, he also meant nothing we believe counts if we don't love others.

1 Cor 13: 2...and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

The Message is Absolute Faith WILL produce the FRUIT of the KIND OF LOVE only GOD can GIVE YOU. Without that LOVE you do not have ABSOLUTE FAITH. That is my opinion what that verse MEANS.

When did we receive GOD'S LOVE in our Hearts (Human Spirit)? When we were Born Again, when the HOLY SPIRIT came into our hearts.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

HIS LOVE IN US, WILL produce OBEDIENCE, after we are SAVED.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Do you see what I mean, LOVE produces Obediance, while Salvation is a FREE GIFT.

 

[Smooth]

In a sense it is a work.

It's not a work to love those that love you and vice versa.

But it is work to love those who are our enemies.
Jesus addressed this.

Matthew 5:44-48
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

And yes as you say it leads to spiritual growth.

I appreciate you sharing as you have. I see works being a fruit of love, a wonderful byproduct. I often pray for enemies; sometimes the words pour forth effortlessly and joyfully while other times it’s like chewing broken glass. Perhaps the latter can be seen as a work but it is then that I simply give my complete being once again to God. Psalm 31:5 is one of my foundational verses in Scripture.

 

[BillG]

I appreciate you sharing as you have. I see works being a fruit of love, a wonderful byproduct. I often pray for enemies; sometimes the words pour forth effortlessly and joyfully while other times it’s like chewing broken glass. Perhaps the latter can be seen as a work but it is then that I simply give my complete being once again to God. Psalm 31:5 is one of my foundational verses in Scripture.

Yes amen love is a fruit, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in us.
Maybe not a byproduct but a product.
But that's just semantics.

 

[danja]

Yeah true, I can see that being offensive and demeaning, exemplifying an authority on your matters here, a know it all of sorts. I am not being shady or passive aggressive.

I shall ponder and examine what you just said, not just because you are one intimidating force to be reckoned with either, lol.

you are too sweet ,gentle and humble and loving .I can see Christ in you .Love you

 

[Defenderofgrace]

Your style does not offend me as God calls all types as evidenced by the apostles, John the Baptist, Elijah etc.....what offends me is to imply or relegate the way some of us make a stand to bickering, a lack of self control or some sort of street brawl...........

Ms Charli need to review the truth as stated in #1,129 in which dc have described perfectly

We are not going to cuddle teddy bears hoping that everything is peaceful with appeasement, because they are clearly different

I have my sword, I will use it

Our tone can be a bit too aggressive sometimes, we can apologize for that

By the way, I appreciate that she is doing her job as a staff member of CC

 

[CharliRenee]

you are too sweet ,gentle and humble and loving .I can see Christ in you .Love you

You have given me the highest honor you could ever give me, saying you see Christ in me. Sister. thank you so very MUCH!!! All that you said to me, I see in you and I really appreciate you and especially the God in you. Oh Lord we thank You. You are so worthy to be praised. I love you dear sister, in Him.

 

[fredoheaven]

Good question but i also have a question for you.

Q. Where does faith leave the little children? How are they saved or are they doomed because they don't understand?

You see, Christ came to save the world (whosoever) not to condemn it and He saves by love for He loved the world- not faith alonists.

Little children or babies are categorically safe but not saved. The fact is they not yet understand the gospel. On the other hand, Jesus accepts them.

Matthew 18:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

 

[mailmandan]

PS simply said that we must not deny God or He will deny us.

but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:33

Why are you so angry?

In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him everywhere they went. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:18; 10:9; 14:6).

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

 

[Defenderofgrace]

anti-OSAS would be the worst case, they are fully convinced of their deception that even dc (who have been trying to hammer the truth into them, and even if dc keep hitting the nail on the head like a professional carpenter), it barely make a dent of doubt on them, and that is the worst case scenario, which becomes the biggest obstacle against "wanting to be born again" that we can logically think of, and dc can testify that he see it all the time in OSAS forums

 

[Defenderofgrace]

Its called watering down the law in a way they think they are ok, and judging others. Which makes yourself feel better ( i am not as bad as that guy!)

Knowing your opponent's strategy, amen

 

[FollowHisSteps]

anti-OSAS would be the worst case, they are fully convinced of their deception that even dc (who have been trying to hammer the truth into them, and even if dc keep hitting the nail on the head like a professional carpenter), it barely make a dent of doubt on them, and that is the worst case scenario, which becomes the biggest obstacle against "wanting to be born again" that we can logically think of, and dc can testify that he see it all the time in OSAS forums

I am neither pro OSAS or anti. The worst case is when respect is lost for others who hold a sincere
position. I have had built into my life integrity and love, following Jesus and just seeing real need,
as one would give support to any hurting child.

I have been shocked when to emphasis love in an open heart, searching to bring Honour and praise
to Jesus was painted as being evil and heretical. No matter where people claim to come from and
their water tight theology is founded they have fruit of thorns and thistles. It is false teaching.

All teaching from the Holy Spirit brings about the fruit of the Spirit. Love, patience, kindness, joy,
peace, faithfulness, commitment etc.